Advice on first high-fi headphone needed. Going Audio-Technica?

[elliott]

As I am rather unexperienced with headphones, I need advice from you gurus.

First of all: I do not have any amp (yet?), and I might also not have the money to buy a decent one in the nearer future.

After reading through some of the threads I think that these are some cans that are shortlisted:

1. Beyerdynamic DT-880 (~200 €)
2. Sennheiser HD 650 (can get these for 200€)
3. Audio-Technica ATH-A900
4. Audio Technica ATH-A900LTD (are they worth double the cash?)
5. Audio-Technica ATH-W1000 (might be too expensive)

dont know anything about the other Audio-Technica cans

I am especially interested in the Audio Technica's as they can be driven without an amp. As I am not at home on weekdays, I am also going to use an IAudio X5L as the source. But the DT-880 or the HD-650 would definitely need an amp or not?

I listen to a lot of different music genres. Mostly independent/alternative rock, singer/songwriter stuff, some hardcore/punk, some hiphop a bit electronica and only few jazz. (pretty unmeaning statement

)

Can any of the Audio Technica's (or another easy to drive headphone) compare with the sound of the high impedance phones?

I hope you guys can help me out on this.

PS: I do not care that much if the headphones are closed or open, what matters the most is the sound and their comfort.

 

[jjcha]

Honestly, I've always thought the "HD650 NEED an amp" bit is a bit overblown. I would rather have a HD650 straight out of an iPod than an ATH-A900. Yes, the HD650 won't sound nearly as good as it could, but it still makes music and it still sounds, to a novices' ears, pretty good. But at the same time, I do find the ATH-A900LTD interesting - I always thought the A900 had the potential to be great cans, but just didn't quite do it. If the LTD makes it that touch better, it may be a worthy can.

Why don't you try going to a store and listening to a HD580/600/650 straight out of your IAudio?

Best,

-Jason

Postscript: BTW, just to complicate things, with the music you describe (e.g., My Bloody Valentine) I love the audio-technica ATH-W10VTG, the predecessor to the W1000. The classic woodies do something very nice with that kind of music.

 

[jagorev]

I think the 600/650 definitely need an amp. Once you've heard it amped, you'll realize you're missing out on a lot of detail, separation, and low-end impact when you go ampless. It sounds pretty ordinary ampless - not at all like some of the world's best headphones.

 

[chris719]

I haven't heard the A900, but I do know that the HD650 sounds pretty decent unamped vs the ATH-W2002 which sounds completely awful unamped. Nothing will be perfect but I think the HD650 unamped is still probably better than many if not all lesser headphones unamped.

 

[Chri5peed]

One thing to be made aware of, the A900s are huge!

 

[DougGreenberg]

Sorry, but my Sennheiser HD-600's absolutely need an amp to sound "like they should," and I'm guessing that the 650's aren't too different. Yes, you can plug cans like these into an iPod and you'll hear something, but it's really not a viable rig, IMHO.

The Beyer DT-880's need an amp, as well.

The "are the AT-A900 LTD's worth the extra $$" question has been discussed very recently in these forums. Do a search and you can review that discussion. A hint: you're paying a premium for a subtle increase in quality. Only you can decide it that little extra "something" is worth the expense.

Here's my take: Elliott says he wants something he can use with a portable device, correct? It might be a good idea to get headphones (or earphones?) that are also reasonably portable. Have you considered in-ear-monitors, such as the UE Super fi 5 pros, or the Etymotic ER-4P's or (less expensive) E-6i's? These are highly portable, give you isolation (i.e, your music won't "leak" into the environment, as they would with open cans like the Senns you asked about), and aren't any more expensive than the headphones you've asked about.

If you want some driveable, decent full-size headphones that sell for a budget price and can be folded up for storage, consider the Sony MDR-V6.
That's my two cents' worth. . .

 

[cheechoz]

I don't know if you have considered Grados, but they will sound very good unamped!

 

[elliott]

It's nice to hear that at least some of you think that the Senns is still pretty good unamped.
One question though: will they also be loud enough? I usually like to listen at a lower volume, but sometimes I just have listen on full blast.

@jicha
My Bloody Valentine is definitely the kind of music I am into, but I guess that the W-1000 would even improve more with an amp. And that's just too much for me (for now).


I do not mind the A900 being huge. I already have some IEMs for portable use (the Creative ones), I am only going to use the full scale headphone indoors. But I do not have a stereo at the place I am staying on most weekdays. I only have the IAudio there, and that's why would need/love some headphones that also sound amazing through the IAudio.

Thanks so far for the helping feedback.

 

[jjcha]

Yeah, there's a lot of good advice in this thread. As you can see there are differences of opinion, and I certainly respect those who have other opinions (though we will need to agree to disagree.)

I posted this poll a while ago, and as you can see, opinions are split.

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123762

As for it getting loud enough - yes, it is difficult to get the HD650/600 loud without a good amp. Out of the iPod you can play it at 90% volume max and it gets comfortably loud enough for me (and I like to listen loud), but it's definitely at the upper ends.

Sorry, mate. Unfortunately a lot of this stuff is subjective and personal. Good luck, you're definitely looking in the right direction.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[fjf]

If you can stand IEMS, the ER4Ps sound very similar to the DT880, with less soundstage (the music is within your head) and although they have nice and accurate bass, it has less impact, but this is typical of any IEM I think. For portable use I would use them. Very enjoyable headphones.

 

[elliott]

As I said before, I do not need them for portable use. But it would be nice if they would also sound decent right out of a portable device.

@jicha
The poll linked is pretty interesting, it illustrates well that opinions are quite splitted about the unamped use of the HD-650.
I hope that I will have the chance to audition some during the next week. Maybe I will be smarter after that.

I am not considering Grados because I cannot find them here (I am from Germany) at a decent price, and I am unsure if I would like the Grado sonic signature. I have not found any place where I could have listened to some.


Does anyone of you know how the other Audio-Technicas sound unamped? ATH-AD1000? ATH-A1000? ATH-W1000?
Especially regarding my music preferences.

 

[Elephas]

I use the DT880 and HD650 regularly, and used to have an A700. I've heard the A900LTD and W1000 briefly, and have never heard the A900.

All the headphones you list will sound much better with an amp. How much better and whether the sound is acceptable or not is up to each individual to decide. I've used most of my headphones directly from my iPod's headphone port and I consider the sound acceptable, especially for portable use. Also, I think the source can be a more significant determinant of sound quality than amplification.

Assuming your IAudio X5L headphone port is similar or slightly better than a 5G or 4G iPod, you should hear decent-quality sound using the DT880 or HD650. Both will reach respectable volume levels, but won't be loud. The HD650 will reach a bit higher volume than the DT880. Note that both are open, and will leak some sound as well as letting you hear sounds in your environment.

The A900LTD and W1000 should be easier to drive than the DT880 or HD650. Both have smaller soundstages than the Beyer or Senn. Both are closed, and the A900LTD provides slightly more isolation than the W1000. I believe the A900LTD would sound better unamped than the W1000 and is a better match for a lower quality source. Note that I don't own either headphone and have had very limited experience with them.

I think an inexpensive portable amp is worth consideration with these headphones. You can sell the amp when you upgrade, which you will probably do if you keep hanging around here.

Oh, and welcome to Head-Fi.

 

[fjf]

I agree. The DT880 out of a line level output is listenable, but with low volume and sounds a bit thin, with little bass. It improves with amplification significantly, but it is not painful without it.

 

[slwiser]

Of these cans I have the ATH-A900LTD, ATH-W1000 and recently sold my DT880 with Cardas cables. All three are very enjoyable. I sold my DT880s because they were to loud to others and the outside sound intruded to much for me. The DT880 needs an amp to sound right to me.

The ATH-A900LTD is my favorite of the three. The W1000 and DT880 were a tie for me, going between them for different music. The A900LTD is simply more enjoyable and it has that smooth detail of the Audio-Technica house sound that I like while having real impact with its BASS. Some has said the Bass is Grado like. With the ATHs you can get away without an amp but all phones sound better with one in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas The A900LTD and W1000 should be easier to drive than the DT880 or HD650. Both have smaller soundstages than the Beyer or Senn. Both are closed, and the A900LTD provides slightly more isolation than the W1000. I believe the A900LTD would sound better unamped than the W1000 and is a better match for a lower quality source. Note that I don't own either headphone and have had very limited experience with them.