[Tswilson]

Hi,

As the title says I am very excited to get into audiophile level in ear monitors. Over the years I have purchased a lot of sub $500 headphones and have always felt that there was a much better experience to be had. Just so you know where I am coming from I have owned the Shure SE 215s, Klipsch x10s, Zik 3s, and Bose QC35s. I recently completed some work on the side and have some disposable income that I can justify spending on a great pair of custom in ear monitors. I see myself using these headphones every day and will likely keep them for several years; thus, I really want to make sure I make a wise decision. To be honest I am very intimidated spending this kind of money on a product without being able to listen to them or compare them to similarly priced competitors. I am hoping your personal experience will help guide my wallet.

Just a little background about me. I am a developer and spend the majority of my time writing code at my desk in an open office environment. I get very distracted by people talking and am looking forward to the noise isolation of custom in ear monitors. I listen to music or white noise while working as it helps me focus on my work. I like just about every genre of music besides country. My favorite genre is hip hop, followed closely by rock, blues, and classical.

It is hard for me to tell you exactly what I am looking for since I don’t have experience with any custom in ear monitors. I want something that will be fun to listen to. Since half the time I will be listening to hip hop or rap I am looking to feel clean and tight bass but also want to hear the vocals and other instruments clearly. I am hoping to find something that sounds incredible when listing to rap, but also sounds great when listening to rock, blues, and classical. Please don’t get me wrong, I am definitely not looking for an $1,800 pair of Beats. I don’t want the bass to overpower the mids or highs. I guess I am just looking for a great pair of headphones that make everything sound better, but especially the bass.

My research so far has led me to the JH Audio Roxannes. I have looked up just about every review I can find and have of course looked all over this forum. I feel I will really like the variable bass feature and feel the sound signature matches what I am looking for. My fear is that these are 3 year old headphones and may not be the wisest decision for 2017. I definitely want a custom version, but I am confused as to why the universal version gets the Roxanne 2s while the custom seems to just be the 1st version.

Knowing what I am looking for do the Roxannes sound like a great pick? Are there other CIEMs that I should look at more closely?

Thank you.

 

[castleofargh]

my very personal opinion. do not make such a purchase. do not trust reviews.
if you're really onto the Roxanne for what you think is a legit reason, find a place where you can try it. maybe a dude not far from you with a pair of the universal kind? the JH people are in Orlando, Disney is there too, the beach... sounds like a short crappy Holiday plan ^_^. or better yet if you have a little patience, go to some audio meeting where a few big IEM names will be there and you know you'll be able to audition IEMs. it's not Japan but you can still hope to have several gears to try. and people coming to those shows will all have plenty of gears to try over a beer too. doing such a thing costs money and time, that's obvious. but the opportunity to make your own opinion is everything in that hobby. there is no clear notion of the best signature, people do have different taste, and fidelity is most of the time an abstract concept in the IEM world. so going to a place where you can try gears might deserve part of your audio budget? maybe you'll fall for something that wasn't even on your radar and doesn't cost a kidney. who knows? not me.
if those IEMs are a lot of money for you, do not take a chance is the only advice I can honestly give.

I'll now let everybody else tell you how they have the best stuff in the world and you should get the same. whatever you decide, good luck and "sorry for your wallet".

 

[Tswilson]

my very personal opinion. do not make such a purchase. do not trust reviews.
if you're really onto the Roxanne for what you think is a legit reason, find a place where you can try it. maybe a dude not far from you with a pair of the universal kind? the JH people are in Orlando, Disney is there too, the beach... sounds like a short crappy Holiday plan ^_^. or better yet if you have a little patience, go to some audio meeting where a few big IEM names will be there and you know you'll be able to audition IEMs. it's not Japan but you can still hope to have several gears to try. and people coming to those shows will all have plenty of gears to try over a beer too. doing such a thing costs money and time, that's obvious. but the opportunity to make your own opinion is everything in that hobby. there is no clear notion of the best signature, people do have different taste, and fidelity is most of the time an abstract concept in the IEM world. so going to a place where you can try gears might deserve part of your audio budget? maybe you'll fall for something that wasn't even on your radar and doesn't cost a kidney. who knows? not me.
if those IEMs are a lot of money for you, do not take a chance is the only advice I can honestly give.

I'll now let everybody else tell you how they have the best stuff in the world and you should get the same. whatever you decide, good luck and "sorry for your wallet".

Thank you for your comment. I am pretty close to both Nashville and Atlanta, so I will look around for an opportunity to try some IEMs out. I am in a place in my life where $1,800 isn’t a lot of money, but is a lot of money for a pair of headphones, so I want to make a wise decision. I really like spending money on things that I will use a lot and that will last a long time. I feel I will get a lot of use out of these IEMs and honestly feel they will make my time at work a lot more focused and enjoyable.

 

[Doody]

CanJam is coming up in Denver next month. Might be worth a quick trip? CanJam NYC will be in January (if memory serves). Not the best places to demo cans, but definitely convenient.

Doody

 

[Tswilson]

CanJam is coming up in Denver next month. Might be worth a quick trip? CanJam NYC will be in January (if memory serves). Not the best places to demo cans, but definitely convenient.

Doody

All of my vacation days this year are already planned. I’ve been trying to find something in Atlanta, Nashville, Chattanooga, or Knoxville, but I’m not seeing anything online. I’m going to try reaching out to people on Reddit and see if there is a closet audiophile in my area. I’m going to San Francisco in a couple of months, so I’ll look around that area as well. I may reach out to JH Audio and see if they could send me a demo pair of the universals for a week to try out. I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat as me, so JH Audio may already have a demo program?

Although, If I can’t find anyone or an event I can go to in the next couple of months I will probably just pull the trigger on a pair that I research a bunch without listening to them. I’ve got to imagine that any of the sets that I am looking at would be worlds better than the SE215s that I am using as my daily drivers now.

 

[Doody]

There ARE outfits that RENT these things. A friend of mine rented some cans for a big comparo-event he held at his home.

Buying without listening first is tough. And without comparing it's tougher. The GOOD news is that if you go your planned route you'll likely LOVE what you end up with (you're not fishing in the dregs given your price-points). But be careful if you do someday hit a CanJam or the like and start comparing .

I bought a pre-Logitech pair of UE TripleFi's without listening to them. LOVED them to death (until I lost them on an airplane).

Doody

 

[ray-dude]

I was the guy that had $20k++ of gear on his dining room table for a week: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/adv...-head-first-into-the-head-fi-deep-end.824351/

I also bought some Noble Katana CIEMs earlier this year. These are my first CIEMs, and my first IEMs since I got my Etymotics 15+ years ago.

For whatever reason, I've never been able to get a good fit or seal with any in ear headphones, and haven't been able to wear any for more than an hour or so. In frustration, I decided to give CIEMs a go, not knowing if I'd like the sound, etc.

We were fortunate to have pretty much the full line of Noble IEMs available on aforementioned table (they were loaners from Noble that @darinf was going to display at a local meet up the next day). My tactic was to lean on people who's judgement I trusted for what tonal signature and sound should be based on headphones, and have them pick the Noble model that most matched that. Katana (which was new at the time) was the consensus opinion for being the closest to the neutral/quick/low distortion signature I prefer.

I do enjoy my Katanas quite a bit. The comfort is off the chart. I've worn them for 10 hour flights with zero discomfort. Not quite as noise isolating at etymotics were, but plenty good for airplane use. Very easy to drive and a nice to look at.

Coming from the 2 channel world to headphones to CIEMs, I can't say I've gotten used to the listening experience with CIEMs. I would never reach for the CIEMs if I have my 2 channel setup or headphones handy. On an airplane or walking around, they're awesome though.

One thing that took me a very long time to get used to is the bass experience. It was weird, but you could hear the bass if you listened closely, but you couldn't feel it like I was used it. Much more clinical bass presentation. Eventually I adapted to the experience, but it was disturbing at first because it was so incongruous. I can't say I enjoy it though

I do find the CIEMs invasive in an office environment though. When folks come by to chat, I can't hear them. When I do see them gesturing, it takes a bit longer than is socially convenient to peel the CIEMs out of my ears (I need to take both out...too difficult for me to track a conversation with music still playing in one sealed ear). After the interruption, it takes a bit more effort than convenient to get them back on and sealed. I am also not comfortable wearing the CIEMs while grocery shopping or walking out and about, but I can't hear anything around me (adds a layer of stress). I tend to mainly use them on airplanes

I am currently experimenting with closed headphones, on the theory that taking cans off and draping them around your neck is a hell of a lot easier/more convenient than getting CIEMs in and out. Closed cans are not helpful in social situations (walking down the street, etc) because of their bulk, but they could be a good alternative for work. High on my audition list are the new Aeon's from Mr. Speaker. If I go that route, I'll have my 2 channel set up, Sennheiser HD-800's, and Audio Zenith PMx2's at home, Aeon's at work, and custom Katanas for when I'm out and about and on airplanes (and yes, I know how crazy bizarre it is to have that convoluted a set up)

 

[castleofargh]

for headphones I think I've seen something with a mic that can serve to hear people without taking the headphone off. the social awkwardness level must reach 11, but the principle seems cool.
I haven't bought a CIEM in years and I'm clearly scared to get another failure(I blame JH for causing me PTSD). and for total irony, the SE215 and some etymotics are the 2 pairs I used the most this year. mostly for how they provide nice isolation. I'm the Benjamin Button of audiophiles.

 

[9bphillips]

I was in the exact same boat as you my friend. I live in alabama and there is definately nowhere to demo anything! Lol. I read every review i could find and i decided on the noble k10 custom. I absolutely love them because they sound great with everything i throw at them. I was like you and tried several $300 to $400 pairs of iem. I was left wanting more and more is definately out there. One peice of advice i can give if you are in the market for a ciem is read up and ask questions about the fit because it is absolutely essential in getting the right sound. I didnt really understand what i was looking for as far as the right fit. I had to send them back twice to get the right fit. The 1st time i wasnt wowed like i thought i would be. I was still wanting more. I couldnt keep a seal and there wasnt much impact with the music. The 2nd pair i received was fine in one ear but not the other. I could press them in and hear fine details like cymbals crashing and small things in the background but when i released them it wasnt there. The impact of the music was there i thought. I still wasnt satisfied and i didnt want to let them go but i wasnt about to not have every last detail of the music when i spent that much money so back they went. I decided to see another audiologist and had to pay the fee for my impressions again but i figured it was worth a shot because im sure brannan and the noble team were tired of hearinf from me! Lol. Brannan and sonny were extremely patient and understanding. Finally the 3rd pair arrived and it was all there! I heard those small details and the music was just impactful. Everything i wanted was there. The bass was not muddy and congested but very tight and fast, the snare drum snapped and the cymbals splashed, and mids are just amazing with the guitar crunching and solos just were so impactful. Thats the best way i know how to explain them. Keep in mind everyones ears are different so comfort over longer periods can vary from person to person. I can listen for long periods of time with no problem. However because i didnt know exactly what a good fit was i experimented with the fit even with the 3rd pair. I was always worried there might be something i was missing. Finally i realised when i pressed them in further and didnt get any different sound than when i just slid them in normal i chilled out and enjoyed the hell out of them. It took a little while to get used to ciem's but i am glad i took that path. Every person has a different preference as far as sound signature. Find out what you like and do research if you cant find anywhere to demo whatever you decide on. I hope you find what your looking for because its a lot if money to not be satisfied. When spending that much money you should hear a huge, huge difference from the iem's you said you have owned. I am excited for you because i know the way i felt when hearing mine. Good luck!

 

[Tswilson]

I was the guy that had $20k++ of gear on his dining room table for a week: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/adv...-head-first-into-the-head-fi-deep-end.824351/

I also bought some Noble Katana CIEMs earlier this year. These are my first CIEMs, and my first IEMs since I got my Etymotics 15+ years ago.

For whatever reason, I've never been able to get a good fit or seal with any in ear headphones, and haven't been able to wear any for more than an hour or so. In frustration, I decided to give CIEMs a go, not knowing if I'd like the sound, etc.

We were fortunate to have pretty much the full line of Noble IEMs available on aforementioned table (they were loaners from Noble that @darinf was going to display at a local meet up the next day). My tactic was to lean on people who's judgement I trusted for what tonal signature and sound should be based on headphones, and have them pick the Noble model that most matched that. Katana (which was new at the time) was the consensus opinion for being the closest to the neutral/quick/low distortion signature I prefer.

I do enjoy my Katanas quite a bit. The comfort is off the chart. I've worn them for 10 hour flights with zero discomfort. Not quite as noise isolating at etymotics were, but plenty good for airplane use. Very easy to drive and a nice to look at.

Coming from the 2 channel world to headphones to CIEMs, I can't say I've gotten used to the listening experience with CIEMs. I would never reach for the CIEMs if I have my 2 channel setup or headphones handy. On an airplane or walking around, they're awesome though.

One thing that took me a very long time to get used to is the bass experience. It was weird, but you could hear the bass if you listened closely, but you couldn't feel it like I was used it. Much more clinical bass presentation. Eventually I adapted to the experience, but it was disturbing at first because it was so incongruous. I can't say I enjoy it though

I do find the CIEMs invasive in an office environment though. When folks come by to chat, I can't hear them. When I do see them gesturing, it takes a bit longer than is socially convenient to peel the CIEMs out of my ears (I need to take both out...too difficult for me to track a conversation with music still playing in one sealed ear). After the interruption, it takes a bit more effort than convenient to get them back on and sealed. I am also not comfortable wearing the CIEMs while grocery shopping or walking out and about, but I can't hear anything around me (adds a layer of stress). I tend to mainly use them on airplanes

I am currently experimenting with closed headphones, on the theory that taking cans off and draping them around your neck is a hell of a lot easier/more convenient than getting CIEMs in and out. Closed cans are not helpful in social situations (walking down the street, etc) because of their bulk, but they could be a good alternative for work. High on my audition list are the new Aeon's from Mr. Speaker. If I go that route, I'll have my 2 channel set up, Sennheiser HD-800's, and Audio Zenith PMx2's at home, Aeon's at work, and custom Katanas for when I'm out and about and on airplanes (and yes, I know how crazy bizarre it is to have that convoluted a set up)

Wow, thanks for the comment. How long would you say it takes you to take the CIEMs out of your ear? And how long does it take to put them in and ensure they are sealed correctly? If my manager swings by I definitely don’t want to be fishing these things out of my ear for more than 3 or 4 seconds. I could see that being annoying from a social standpoint for sure.

With my job I can go hours between interruptions. If I had to average it, I would say someone might swing by once every two hours wanting to chat. When I am in the middle of coding an interruption can really put me off track, so most of the time they leave the developers alone. Although, this doesn’t mean my office environment is quiet. I’m hoping some CIEM will help me block out the noise. My SE 215s do pretty well with this, but I have to turn the music up pretty loud not to hear the guy beside me talking to himself (the joys of working in an open office environment).

 

[ray-dude]

I'm the manager in your scenario,and I know well enough to leave developers alone That being said, people are dropping by all the time, and I don't want to do anything to discourage that.

For me, each CIEM is a hook/insert/twist/jiggle to adjust motion (and reverse to remove). Maybe 3 seconds per ear? If someone has interrupted you, it does make an awkward wait, esp. if you're doing both ears. Since I always want/need to be available to everyone and I get interrupted many times per hour, it does make it tougher. With headphones, it is one motion to put them on and off.

On the plane, I'm more than happy to be ignorant of all the interruptions around me and be in a happy/alone place. The isolation/(comfort + size) ratio simply can not be beat.

 

[9bphillips]

Definately takes longer for me to put them in than take them out. Putting them in i take the time to make sure they are in proper so i have a great seal. To me taking them out is is pretty easy. Just a little twist the opposite way of how you inserted them and your good.

 

[Tswilson]

I was in the exact same boat as you my friend. I live in alabama and there is definately nowhere to demo anything! Lol. I read every review i could find and i decided on the noble k10 custom. I absolutely love them because they sound great with everything i throw at them. I was like you and tried several $300 to $400 pairs of iem. I was left wanting more and more is definately out there. One peice of advice i can give if you are in the market for a ciem is read up and ask questions about the fit because it is absolutely essential in getting the right sound. I didnt really understand what i was looking for as far as the right fit. I had to send them back twice to get the right fit. The 1st time i wasnt wowed like i thought i would be. I was still wanting more. I couldnt keep a seal and there wasnt much impact with the music. The 2nd pair i received was fine in one ear but not the other. I could press them in and hear fine details like cymbals crashing and small things in the background but when i released them it wasnt there. The impact of the music was there i thought. I still wasnt satisfied and i didnt want to let them go but i wasnt about to not have every last detail of the music when i spent that much money so back they went. I decided to see another audiologist and had to pay the fee for my impressions again but i figured it was worth a shot because im sure brannan and the noble team were tired of hearinf from me! Lol. Brannan and sonny were extremely patient and understanding. Finally the 3rd pair arrived and it was all there! I heard those small details and the music was just impactful. Everything i wanted was there. The bass was not muddy and congested but very tight and fast, the snare drum snapped and the cymbals splashed, and mids are just amazing with the guitar crunching and solos just were so impactful. Thats the best way i know how to explain them. Keep in mind everyones ears are different so comfort over longer periods can vary from person to person. I can listen for long periods of time with no problem. However because i didnt know exactly what a good fit was i experimented with the fit even with the 3rd pair. I was always worried there might be something i was missing. Finally i realised when i pressed them in further and didnt get any different sound than when i just slid them in normal i chilled out and enjoyed the hell out of them. It took a little while to get used to ciem's but i am glad i took that path. Every person has a different preference as far as sound signature. Find out what you like and do research if you cant find anywhere to demo whatever you decide on. I hope you find what your looking for because its a lot if money to not be satisfied. When spending that much money you should hear a huge, huge difference from the iem's you said you have owned. I am excited for you because i know the way i felt when hearing mine. Good luck!

I was actually outside of Montgomery yesterday visiting some family. Thanks for your post, lots of good info. I was under the understanding that the audiologist and the manufacturer pretty much took care of everything. Do I need to talk to them about what kind of fit I am looking for? I just assumed with the molds they would be giving me the perfect fit. Do you feel your first audiologist just didn’t understand how to make the molds correctly?

It is exciting to hear I should hear a huge difference from the pair I am listening to currently. The way you describe yours sound awesome. I really feel I am going to be very happy with whichever model I choose.

 

[Tswilson]

I'm the manager in your scenario,and I know well enough to leave developers alone That being said, people are dropping by all the time, and I don't want to do anything to discourage that.

For me, each CIEM is a hook/insert/twist/jiggle to adjust motion (and reverse to remove). Maybe 3 seconds per ear? If someone has interrupted you, it does make an awkward wait, esp. if you're doing both ears. Since I always want/need to be available to everyone and I get interrupted many times per hour, it does make it tougher. With headphones, it is one motion to put them on and off.

On the plane, I'm more than happy to be ignorant of all the interruptions around me and be in a happy/alone place. The isolation/(comfort + size) ratio simply can not be beat.

That makes complete sense being a manager. If I was in your shoes I definitely wouldn’t want it to be perceived as an inconvenience when someone drops in.

 

[Tswilson]

for headphones I think I've seen something with a mic that can serve to hear people without taking the headphone off. the social awkwardness level must reach 11, but the principle seems cool.
I haven't bought a CIEM in years and I'm clearly scared to get another failure(I blame JH for causing me PTSD). and for total irony, the SE215 and some etymotics are the 2 pairs I used the most this year. mostly for how they provide nice isolation. I'm the Benjamin Button of audiophiles.

The Bragi Dash Pro has a feature with the mic like what you are talking about. They actually have a CIEM version that I researched, but many reviews I read mentioned they didn’t sound too great.

Oh and did you have a bad experience with JH? I’ve read that they don’t have great customer service. I guess I was just hoping the IEMs would be perfect and I wouldn’t really have to contact them.