A tale of two Hornets (stock vs modded)

[jp11801]

Mike (Tyrion) was kind enough to loan me his Hornet for a few days that had been sent to RSA to be SR71modded, for lack of a better term for it. While I was going to post this in the thread requesting impressions on both units since that thread has gone off on a slight tanget I am posting a new thread with my thoughts.
I was going to originally use a modded ipod for my impressions but I can' find my charger so this duel got the royal treatment so to speak and was done using a Linn LP12 turntable. I used my Grado GS1000s and my Ety 4s with a few different albums to get a rounded flavor of impressions as well. To start with both units sound really good and I would be happy with either one as my portable amp.
As a reference amp I used my home amp a Moth audio 2a3.

Rather than pop back and forth I listened to groups of songs and then switched units.

Titles played were Joe Jacksons Night and Day LP, Paul McCartney's Ram and Jaco Pastorius debut LP.

Here are some thoughts on both amps

stock unit, vocals for the most part are smack dab in the middle and forward presented. You hear alot of body in them and they are thicker sounding than the modded unit. Bass while not loose was not as tight or as well presented as the modded unit. The stage is fairly narrow but it is deep. Imagine a stage at a nightclub where the lead singer is out in front and the drummer is 10-12 feet behind and there is not a lot of room from right to left. So you feel stage depth not stage width. The stock unit did piano and percussion very well.
For song like Joe Jacksons Breaking us in Two the unit kept you locked into the music with the percussion and piano really creating the groove.

The modded presented vocals with a off center feel or at least the less well locked in than the stock unit. They were not as thick as the stock unit lacking a touch of body in the lower mids. I did find the bass sounded better defined in my comparison. The stage was wide but not nearly as deep. It felt more like a stage band where everyone is more or less lined up evenly but spread out more. I found that due to the wider spread things like percussion were lost a bit and not as sharply presented.
Overll these units were shades apart and not miles apart in sound. If you owned either unit hearing the other unit you really have to listed to get the nuance changes.

Having owned an SR71 the modded unit has the spatial presentation of the SR71 but is not as good at presenting detail. If I were choosing all over again and buying a portable amp I would go with the stock Hornet. I like the modded one but it does not bogey enough for me. I think the SR71 from a sheer audio quality standpoint is the better of the three units but when portable needs are throw in I like the stock Hornet.

Now for the caveat, my stock unit has a few hundred hours on it and I have no idea how many hours Mike's unit has post mod. This may have something to do with what I heard. I for one believe in the Easter Burn in Bunny. I know not everyone does and that is fine it's just one guy's opinion. I am going to hand over the two units to Mike (Tyrion) later today/tomorrow so he can add his two cents.

If you own a Hornet my advice would be keep it as originally designed it is a fantastic portable amp. Give Ray a break and let him complete the balanced amp we are waiting for

 

[tyrion]

My unit probably has 10 to 15 hours on it at this point although I haven't kept a count. I am looking forward to doing the comparison myself. I didn't get the sense from listening to the modded unit that the vocals were off center. It was more of a wider soundstage and not the deep image of the stock Hornet. I will do my comparison with my E5's, E500 and the HD650. To me, it sounds a lot like a Grado v. Sennheiser argument relative to the soundstage, at least.

On a side note, the Rye IPA has burned in nicely overnight and the aftertaste seems to have mellowed.

 

[tyrion]

It’s a tale of two very different Hornets. The Hornet without the mods is akin to seeing a band in a small intimate club and you are in the first couple of rows and you believe Patricia Barber is singing to you and you alone. The Hornet (M) is a bigger stage and you are now getting the full effect of the music from side to side. It’s a much more relaxed sound. The Hornet (M) has every bit of detail as the Hornet just a bigger stage going side to side. It’s not that there is no depth with the Hornet (M), but with since the vocals are not as prominent in front, you get the feeling the depth is not as apparent. I still get the felling of the placement of the drums slightly back it’s just not to the degree of the Hornet. So far, I’ve been using the GS-1000 and Patricia Barber’s A Fortnight in France and the Derek Trucks Band’s Songlines.

I next moved to the Shure E500's which are an amazing IEM. I moved to Robert Stanton’s Acoustic Storm which is considered a reference recording. By the way, this is using my ipod 5g 60gb encoded using Apple Lossless. With the Hornet, his acoustic guitar is front and center. With the Hornet (M) you get the acoustic guitar in the center but he is sitting a bit further back from you which gives the effect of the soundstage widening. The (M) has a more open and airy presentation which is what the SR-71 provided. I wish I had an SR-71 with me so I can do a comparison between it and the Hornet (M). I did notice that with the Hornet and the GS-1000 the bass was slightly boomier. I am not hearing the same thing with the E500's. The bass is deep and articulate.

John, I am not sure what you mean by the vocals being off center with the Hornet (M). I wonder whether you mean that with the vocals being less forward then the Hornet it gave you a sense that there isn’t as much separation. Maybe you could comment further. I find the vocals with Patricia Barber and the acoustic guitar with Robert Stanton to be locked in and the difference in terms of the depth.

I brought out my HD-650/RnB G52 and my finding are the same. The two amps give you a completely different presentation. Whether you choose the Hornet or the Hornet (M) is going to be a personal preference. If you were a fan of the SR-71, then the Hornet (M) is going to be your choice. If on the other hand, you want that more intimate small club feeling then you might consider the Hornet to be your portable amp. They both sound beautiful and if the (M) never existed, I would still be using my Hornet.

 

[909]

Modified version listening impressions seem interesting and diverse already.

Although, I bet some will prefer stock and some moded and some neither.

Realistically with IEMs, I wonder how much difference one can hear between the two.

Keeping in mind, the limited sound presentation afforded by IEMs even good ones.

Everyone is going to have their preference.

This is for some interesting and lively debate as to which is “better”

It can’t be forgotten that we use subjective verbiage to describe things too.

No doubt, this will provide from some entertaining exchanges.

Good grief the first thread went off tangent, I hope this one stays the course.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 Modified version listening impressions seem interesting and diverse already. Although, I bet some will prefer stock and some moded and some neither. Realistically with IEMs, I wonder how much difference one can hear between the two. Keeping in mind, the limited sound presentation afforded by IEMs even good ones. Everyone is going to have their preference. This is for some interesting and lively debate as to which is “better” It can’t be forgotten that we use subjective verbiage to describe things too. No doubt, this will provide from some entertaining exchanges. Good grief the first thread went off tangent, I hope this one stays the course.

Like everything else, it always comes down to personal preference and this in no different as between modded, not modded or other amps. Hopefully, the debate, if any will focus on the sound of the two amps so this thread doesn't get derailed.

I don't find the E5 and the E500 to have "limited sound presentation" (again, we are all different). I've been using the E500's for the last couple of weeks and they provide a very even presentation with a nice sound stage. I've always liked the sound stage from my E5's and the very articulate sound of the highs, mids and bass. I did find there to be a definite difference between the Hornet and Hornet (M) with the E500. I am sending them back today so I will try it again with my E5's.

 

[909]

When I mentioned “limited sound presentation” I meant in comparison to full size cans or clips or larger yet still mobile cans.

I’ve heard the E5s and E500s too and, even though, they are the best sounding IEMs I’ve heard to date they can only do so much with those mini drivers (even three).

I’ve done some A/B with the Hornet and another portable amp and found it very difficult to hear noticeable differences between the two with my E4s, but with something like my HD-650s there were negligible to noticeable differences.

I am sure there are differences between the stock and modded Hornet, but the degree described I’ll need to determine with my own ear because it’s so subjective.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 I am sure there are differences between the stock and modded Hornet, but the degree described I’ll need to determine with my own ear because it’s so subjective.

There is no other way to make the determination.

 

[StevieDvd]

Tyrion,

I tend to agree with your observations.

Though 'm comparing the standard hornet from memory (at the moment and until I can get both versions together) I do have both the Hornet M and the SR71 together.

The Hornet M does need to be burned in, though I've only got around 50-60 hours on it so far, I do feel it's getting better (sharper, clearer, more precise).

I've been trying to find a decent track which is readily available which demonstrates a clear difference in the presentation - still searching.

Between the SR71 & Hornet M the detail and soundstage is very similar, I would say though that the central part of the soundstage is slightly more forward on the Hornet M. I have the soundtrack to Master & Commander and use 'La Musica Notturna Della Starde Di Madrid...' as a favourite reference as I can recall the track being used in the film. With the SR71 spacing I get the impression I am playing two of the instruments, whilst the modded hornet narrows it down to me playing just the one (it's one of those tracks where I find I do make the movements as if I was playing

).

When I switched over to the SR71 when the hornet was being modded it did feel a bit more energetic and wider/roomier with its presentation. On receiving the hornet back it was at first harder to find the differences but they are now coming out with use.

In a nutshell I think the modded hornet is better than the standard but I base that on it moving more into my preferences for wider soundstage and a more forward presentation over the standard hornet and to some extent the SR71.

Steve

 

[909]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion There is no other way to make the determination.

Agreed.

And therein lies the rub…

How many people (me included) are actually going to be able to listen to the stock and modded Hornet (A/B) under ideal listening conditions for a reasonable amount of time? I suspect possibly a handful, if that.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 Agreed. And therein lies the rub… How many people (me included) are actually going to be able to listen to the stock and modded Hornet (A/B) under ideal listening conditions for a reasonable amount of time? I suspect possibly a handful, if that.

I sent my Hornet to Alaska and it went from there to Illinois for people to check out. I can't do that at the moment as I want it with me when I go on vacation. I may consider doing it again. I might just keep it local to some of the Florida contingent who have the Hornet.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion I sent my Hornet to Alaska and it went from there to Illinois for people to check out. I can't do that at the moment as I want it with me when I go on vacation. I may consider doing it again. I might just keep it local to some of the Florida contingent who have the Hornet.

I'd be more than willing to have a limited Hornet/Hornet(M) tour, really wish there was a way to obscure which was which to the participants. At times it was tough to tell which was which.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion John, I am not sure what you mean by the vocals being off center with the Hornet (M). I wonder whether you mean that with the vocals being less forward then the Hornet it gave you a sense that there isn’t as much separation. Maybe you could comment further. I find the vocals with Patricia Barber and the acoustic guitar with Robert Stanton to be locked in and the difference in terms of the depth.

what I meant but worded poorly was the vocals were locked in and centered on the stock model and witht he modded one they were somewhat vague from a soundstage point of view. You can hear them it's just not as clear where they are coming from from presenation wise.
I listed pretty extensively through my SR71 for the better part of a year, it was my home/desktop/portable amp and from memory it is a different animal than the hornet. Again I like both Hornets and beleive them to be the best all around portable (IMHO) but from a sheer sound quality standpoint the SR71 was the better amp.
Mike if would induldge the burn in easter bunny can you hook up the hornet to a pc and download a pink noise track and run it night and day whenever you are not using the hornet. If this is frsh from the mod it would be nice to see what 200 or so hours of playbaack does to it.

 

[909]

Put some sort of distinguishable marking on each. Then send them around the country like the Edwood's cable test and have some (third) disinterested, honest, and reliable person that doesn’t know which is which cumulate the data and report the findings. That would be so cool and if Todd trusts Head-Fiers with a G08 two Hornet should be no thing.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 what I meant but worded poorly was the vocals were locked in and centered on the stock model and witht he modded one they were somewhat vague from a soundstage point of view. You can hear them it's just not as clear where they are coming from from presenation wise. I listed pretty extensively through my SR71 for the better part of a year, it was my home/desktop/portable amp and from memory it is a different animal than the hornet. Again I like both Hornets and beleive them to be the best all around portable (IMHO) but from a sheer sound quality standpoint the SR71 was the better amp. Mike if would induldge the burn in easter bunny can you hook up the hornet to a pc and download a pink noise track and run it night and day whenever you are not using the hornet. If this is frsh from the mod it would be nice to see what 200 or so hours of playbaack does to it.

I will try to burn it over then next week. I certainly agree that burn can make a difference but I am already at the point where I find there to be noticeable differences between the two amps. I need to get my hands on an SR-71 as it's been too long for me to compare. This might require a pm to our favorite superhero, VOOLTROOOOON. I can ask him to send me his SR-71 and then I could send him our Hornets and the cables I promised him more than a month ago. I am wondering whether you were a bit burned in by some Rye IPA's when you did your comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 Put some sort of distinguishable marking on each. Then send them around the country like the Edwood's cable test and have some (third) disinterested, honest, and reliable person that doesn’t know which is which cumulate the data and report the findings. That would be so cool and if Todd trusts Head-Fiers with a G08 two Hornet should be no thing.

Except one of them is mine and I am not sure I want to give it up for another 3 weeks as I did when it went on the Florida > Alaska > Illinois > Florida tour. I also don't feel that a blind comparison is needed. I think most of those that have been doing this a while can police themselves if they feel the need to do the comparison blind.

 

[909]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyrion Except one of them is mine and I am not sure I want to give it up for another 3 weeks as I did when it went on the Florida > Alaska > Illinois > Florida tour. I also don't feel that a blind comparison is needed. I think most of those that have been doing this a while can police themselves if they feel the need to do the comparison blind.

I don't think you should have to do this with your gear. Possibly RS Audio would be interested. I feel, if this was to happen a double blind comparison is the best way to ensure accurate result because belief can affect results that’s why scientific studies are usually double blind Placebo-controlled.

If most, if not all, people couldn’t tell the difference between the Raptor and the Hornet then how can they tell the differences, which should be even more minuet between a stock and modded Hornet. I am just being the devils advocate here not questioning anyone’s actual belief as to what they hear or heard.