A tale of 2 IEM's (Montser Turbine Copper 1 vs Monster Turbine Copper 2) How different burnin techniques gave me two unique IEM's
Jun 6, 2010 at 3:00 AM Post #16 of 179

Anaxilus

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Dweaver, great observation and YOU BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH!!
 
I mentioned a few times around here that I had noticed an anomaly w/ the MD's as well but needed more research.  I was fortunate enough to have given in depth listening to 2 different MD's.  The first set I used my former typical burn-in process using my SQ playlist increasing volumes each day for 3 days.  After extensive listening for a few weeks the mids eventually would become way too forward, loose and bloated on certain songs.  I then received another pair of MD's and decided to experiment using the same burn in process but reducing the volume levels w/ respect to each day of burn-in compared to my prior procedure.  I was wondering if excessive volume levels or potential clipping had adversely affected driver burn-in or perhaps damaged them.  Using this new procedure on the second set I have the MD sound signature but have yet to experience that previous midbass bloat/encroachment issue.  The treble also seemed warmer at first than the previous MD's which correlates to your findings on the Coppers.  At this point I feel totally comfortable confirming your findings that how you burn-in your drivers can affect the sound signature.  Whether the previous MD's had the signature shaped different or the driver got damaged I can't say.  I can say they did sound different. 
 
Jun 6, 2010 at 3:03 AM Post #17 of 179

mesasone

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Thanks for posting the data, it's quite interesting.  I'm not putting too much faith in the iPhone as a dB meter, but who knows. Perhaps you could contact Tyll and see if he could measure the two earphones with his gear, or perhaps run a similar test on other headphones.  Probably busy with CanJam at the moment though.
 
Jun 6, 2010 at 10:53 AM Post #18 of 179

dweaver

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Quote:
thanks. the chart by koonhua was helpful :)
 
Now the real question now is do you hear a difference in the two that is similar to the numbers or at leas how much you can hear. You would need to have amazing hearing to hear 20k :p I'm not an expert on burn in or anything..but what is brown noise?


I don't think I can hear up to 20K but recorded it because the meter was able to get a reading but there was no difference in sound from 17-20K anyway. But those elevated DB values from 9-16K are definitely noticeable. The funny thing is I like that added detail for some things and find it almost annoying for others as I end up getting distracted by it.
 
Quote:
Dweaver, great observation and YOU BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH!!
 
I mentioned a few times around here that I had noticed an anomaly w/ the MD's as well but needed more research.  I was fortunate enough to have given in depth listening to 2 different MD's.  The first set I used my former typical burn-in process using my SQ playlist increasing volumes each day for 3 days.  After extensive listening for a few weeks the mids eventually would become way too forward, loose and bloated on certain songs.  I then received another pair of MD's and decided to experiment using the same burn in process but reducing the volume levels w/ respect to each day of burn-in compared to my prior procedure.  I was wondering if excessive volume levels or potential clipping had adversely affected driver burn-in or perhaps damaged them.  Using this new procedure on the second set I have the MD sound signature but have yet to experience that previous midbass bloat/encroachment issue.  The treble also seemed warmer at first than the previous MD's which correlates to your findings on the Coppers.  At this point I feel totally comfortable confirming your findings that how you burn-in your drivers can affect the sound signature.  Whether the previous MD's had the signature shaped different or the driver got damaged I can't say.  I can say they did sound different. 


I hear you Anaxilus, I gave my burnin file to another Head-fi member who just got back a pair of MD's from warranty. But suggested he may want to make a modified song that stresses other areas away from the mids such as my suggestion earlier of white - pink - white - brown which may help the MD have more treble presence and ensure the midrange does not become to over powering. The problem for me is I can't affors to buy all these headphones to test my idea out. So I am greatfull when members like yourself help prove/disprove the theory.


 
Quote:
Thanks for posting the data, it's quite interesting.  I'm not putting too much faith in the iPhone as a dB meter, but who knows. Perhaps you could contact Tyll and see if he could measure the two earphones with his gear, or perhaps run a similar test on other headphones.  Probably busy with CanJam at the moment though.


I wondered about Tyll as well but hate losing my entertainment source for so long  plus the added cost. But like yourself I do wonder about the accuracy of the iPhone as a meter. I may see if The Source has a meter I can buy, or a microphone I could possibly hook up to my computer and then I will download a program to do this. I also would love to figure out a way to enclose the tip and have it fed directly to the microphone in an isolating fashion.
 
What I did for my testing was watch the average DB before I moved the IEM to the Mic and made sure there was enough volume coming from the IEM to move the DB level at least 5DB's before I would record the value which is why I could not get a reading at 20 and 50DB. If I had an isolated tip so most outside sound was blocked I am sure I would have gotten some readings. The other I could not do because I do not have a real lab setup was see which frequencies were the loudest as I had to adjust the volume at different frequencies to get a reading or to bring the reading under 100 so I could capture the variations. So I can't create those cool charts showing the whole spectrum analysis.
 
 
Jun 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM Post #22 of 179

dweaver

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the burn-in file worked dweaver! thank you so much. i noticed my turbine golds to have tighter bass overnight. its a night and day difference. more power to you!



 
glad to hear it helped
normal_smile%20.gif

 
Jun 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM Post #23 of 179

dweaver

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OK now that I have done my initial burnin using the one wav file, I have created a new file that switches the emphasis away from the bass and lower midrange and places more emphasis on the upper midrange and treble, This file is 1 minute increments of pink - white - brown - pink - white with 10 minutes of silence at the end. I am going to burn-in the new Coppers with this and see if the upper midrange increases any and if the treble will come in line with the old Copper's. I'll also watch the bass to see if it is affected by this new burnin regime. To be safe I am only going to do this for tonight and then test after I get home from work tomorrow.
 
One other theory I have about all of this is whether I need to do tune up sessions as I use my IEM. My thinking on this is if my music has a tendancy towards playing certain frequencies more often than others my IEM's will start to become burned in to those frequencies and become unbalanced. So if I got in the habit of once a week or every couple of weeks (this will have to be tested to find out) I stretch out my IEM using this file will it help ensure my IEM never gets to comfortable playing certain frequencies. Again this is all just theory at this point.
 
Jun 7, 2010 at 10:00 PM Post #24 of 179

mesasone

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I don't think it would be THAT hard to create an enclosure that isolates the from the eartip forward.  I'm not exactly sure what material you would use, but I would imagine that blu-tac (like people to to test others' customs - or so I've heard) or modeling clay might work to seal it off.  Another interesting (but obviously somewhat expensive) possibility would be to get a new ear monitor, get it set up with the enclosure and sound meter, and then just leave it playing for 100 hours, taking readings at 30 minutes, 1 hr, 2hr, 5, etc to see if you can measure the changes and where they occur.  Perhaps Monster would consider sending Tyll a pair for measurement (since they specifically mention the effects of burn-in in the documentation that comes with the MTPC and presumably other 'phones.)
 
Jun 7, 2010 at 11:30 PM Post #25 of 179

dweaver

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I am going to look into either a mic for my Iphone or a mic for the PC and try what your suggesting as I do have some blutac at home. I'll also look at an actual sound metere but suspect that won't be affordable. I can't afford to buy another pair myself and if Monster wanted to allow this kind of testing Tyll would be the right guy to do it as he actually has a lab for it. I hope I can get a more accurate reading with what I have though, I think it will help solidify my findings.
 
I really do think that using music as a burnin especially our regular listening music would simply burnin the aspects our music exposes more than other aspects of an IEM's potential which should cause the IEM to become unbalanced. I may actually get in the habit of doing a burnin once a week or every two weeks for one night to ensure these stay where I want them.
 
Jun 8, 2010 at 1:25 AM Post #26 of 179

Anaxilus

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Honestly dweaver, I almost hope we are imagining things.  The last thing I need is another sonic variable to worry about.  
 
Jun 8, 2010 at 2:00 AM Post #27 of 179

JeFFz

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will try out the wav files you provided with my MTPC tonight, if it really does improves the bass and midrange of my MTPC like how it improved 2rooi123 despite the initial burn-in, i would love my MTPC even more! Hopes.....
 
Jun 8, 2010 at 6:14 AM Post #30 of 179

JeFFz

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hmm what im curious about is how does burn-in works?
 
1. Does playing mids/bass heavy files to burn-in lets the driver get used to it, than the mids and bass would feel more solid and forward as it is used to playing those parts?
 
Or
 
2. Playing mids/heavy files to burn-in loosens the driver and than mids/bass doesn't feel as impactful as before since it's loosened? Just like a rubberband/elastic gets pulled numerous times and it loses it's elasticity.
 
Not sure did i put it in the right words, but hope it's legible.
 

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