[djembeplay]

Is it illegal to sell a portable player with your music loaded on it?

Thanks.

 

[crappyjones123]

was the music acquired through legal channels?

i think it would be legal in that case. but i am no copyright lawyer.

 

[Coop47]

Apparently Live Nation doesn't think so. They donated an iPod loaded with 2000 songs to be autioned off by a local public television station: 80GB iPod Loaded with Live Nation New England Summer Concert Tunes Item #: 55631

 

[mule65]

Quote:

Originally Posted by djembeplay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it illegal to sell a portable player with your music loaded on it? Thanks.

I am. Besides, I have no idea how to get the 1,005 songs off the thing. They are for trial use only and must be deleted.

 

[krmathis]

I guess it depends on several factors.
* If the the music are copyrighted, or distributed using a 'Creative Commons license' (free to distribute).
* Where you and the buyer live.
* Who you sell it to.
* If you are charging for the music, or only the player.

 

[tstarn06]

Illegal? Maybe. But as long as you don't mention any tracks by name, who is going to know what you sell? Example: If you post on ebay and mention band/track names, they will pull the sale. If you just say loaded with music, no way anyone knows what you are talking about. So whether it's illegal or not seems a moot point. If a buyer feels guilty about it, they can always delete/reformat the player. Otherwise, makes no real difference in my view. I've sold every DAP I've sold with music on it, but I am not mentioning any names.

 

[synaesthetic]

I usually wipe clean any player before selling it. It's not that difficult. =p

 

[zip22]

i remember a few articles on the topic. the RIAA says its illegal, but there seems to be a gray area.

USATODAY.com - Preloaded iPods prompt legal ponderings

Can You Resell An MP3? Probably Not ... - News Story | Music, Celebrity, Artist News | MTV News

 

[djembeplay]

Hmm... Ok, I suppose I wont worry about it. Thanks for the info.

I'm going to be selling my beloved MZ-NH1 mini-disc player, and it takes a bit of time to delete all the music off of 5 HD-MD discs. I like the 'loaded with music' phrasing .

 

[elrod-tom]

Just for the record, we don't permit ads for DAP's that are loaded with music in the Sale Forum.

I guess if the music was acquired in an "appropriate" way (e.g. iTunes downloads with the original files passed on to the new owner), nobody would really have an issue with it. That said, we see lots of folks are wanting to sell their DAPs packed with music because they are obviously figuring they can get more $$ for it. That's not cool IMHO...

 

[Warhawk]

I sold my Zen to a friend in town, and deleted a lot of songs she doesn't listen to.

I was actually going to format it, to make it cleaner and run smoother, but she really wanted them on there.

So I personally don't care, but if it was to someone I don't know, format for sure.

 

[tstarn06]

I've only used the phrase loaded with music once for an ebay sale (an old iPod Mini), but c'mon, people are going to expect tracks on a used DAP. If they don't like it, they can reformat. It's not about getting more money for the sale. It's about what is called a "value add" feature. Two DAPs I sold to friends had music on them. They deleted some, kept some. But passing music to friends/buyers is nothing more than making mixtapes back in the cassette era. "Acquired in an appropriate way" is one POV. But that horse left the barn a long time ago. As you know, DRM is a sinking boat (see Napster 4.5, Amazon, etc.). Now, when pricing goes down appropriately, the greedy music industry will see how willing people are to pay a fair price for music.

Meantime, people will continue selling DAPs loaded with music. After all, even on the FS forum, they can just send the DAP with music on it (or tell a potential buyer about it via PM), without advertising it on their post. You'd never really know. So the rule is really toothless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just for the record, we don't permit ads for DAP's that are loaded with music in the Sale Forum. I guess if the music was acquired in an "appropriate" way (e.g. iTunes downloads with the original files passed on to the new owner), nobody would really have an issue with it. That said, we see lots of folks are wanting to sell their DAPs packed with music because they are obviously figuring they can get more $$ for it. That's not cool IMHO...

 

[djembeplay]

Hmm... but if ads are not permitted that say the player is loaded with music... I wouldn't want to disrespect that rule.

 

[Solan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by djembeplay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it illegal to sell a portable player with your music loaded on it? Thanks.

Yes, it is, if that music is copyrighted by someone other than yourself, and you are not at the same time sending the CDs with the player. It is not a grey area.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've only used the phrase loaded with music once for an ebay sale (an old iPod Mini), but c'mon, people are going to expect tracks on a used DAP. If they don't like it, they can reformat. It's not about getting more money for the sale. It's about what is called a "value add" feature. Two DAPs I sold to friends had music on them. They deleted some, kept some. But passing music to friends/buyers is nothing more than making mixtapes back in the cassette era. "Acquired in an appropriate way" is one POV. But that horse left the barn a long time ago. As you know, DRM is a sinking boat (see Napster 4.5, Amazon, etc.). Now, when pricing goes down appropriately, the greedy music industry will see how willing people are to pay a fair price for music. Meantime, people will continue selling DAPs loaded with music. After all, even on the FS forum, they can just send the DAP with music on it (or tell a potential buyer about it via PM), without advertising it on their post. You'd never really know. So the rule is really toothless.

Thank you for your $0.02 on the matter, but "toothless" or otherwise, we will continue to remove ads for DAP's loaded with music. We further ask those who use the sale forum respect the wishes of the site admin in this regard.

I suppose that there will always be those who elect to engage in bad behavior and circumvent the rule. I can't police people's ethics if they insist on being sneaky, but at least this site will not be complicit in that behavior. Of course, if the membership insisted on routinely violating the "toothless" rule, I suppose one way of dealing with that would be to eliminate DAP sales from the sale forum. I suspect THAT would have some teeth.

BTW - Not everyone expects a used DAP to be loaded with "free" music. I've bought several, and each time asked that the drive be wiped clean.