a newbie's question - Impedence/Ohm, How does it affect sound?

Oct 10, 2007 at 12:41 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 26

P.F. Jo

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hey.

I've been trying to figure out that question for quite some time now..... I've read many formula's trying to explain how the ohm's/impedence of a headphone affects its sound but with no avail to get better understanding of that issue.....

So, What is Ohm/Impedence all about? (I Know its considered the "Resistance" of a headphone, but.... How does higher ohm affects sound?)

Try to stay less scientific... since i've already tried to understand it in that kind of way.. lol

Thanks,

-Jo
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 7:22 PM Post #2 of 26
Short answer: it does nothing.

Less short answer: all other things being equal, less ohms means that it will sound louder and more ohms means it will sound better out of some amps... there are exceptions however and all other things are rarely equal anyway...

Don't bother with that stuff unless you know that your amp has trouble with low-impedance loads for example. If you've got a good amp (technically good, not expensive), you can safely ignore that stuff.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 8:10 PM Post #3 of 26
erm.. I have.. no amp. im just trying to figure out what the impedence means.

one friend tells me the higher it is, the more volume - it makes no sense however..

in some places I read that the higher impedence headphones got, they will be 'harder to drive' and require Amps more than lower impedence ones..

So im just trying to make some logic out of this mess.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 8:21 PM Post #4 of 26
If you listen to headphones at all, you most likely have an amp. All DAPs have integrated amps for example.
People often use "amp" to mean "dedicated amp" (a box which does nothing else) but this only confuses people so I use "amp" to mean "amp" (electronics designed to drive transducers).

What's harder to drive depends on your amp and also on the headphone's sensitivity. You can't derive that from impedance alone, despite all the nonsense you read on head-fi.

Maybe this would help you understand:
http://www.rane.com/hc6hp.html
But, really, there's no need to bother with the technical stuff.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 8:44 PM Post #5 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by P.F. Jo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
erm.. I have.. no amp. im just trying to figure out what the impedence means.

one friend tells me the higher it is, the more volume - it makes no sense however..

in some places I read that the higher impedence headphones got, they will be 'harder to drive' and require Amps more than lower impedence ones..

So im just trying to make some logic out of this mess.



It sure is a mess.

Historically, 600 ohms was a good standard for recording studios because recording studios were already lousy with 600-ohm line drivers and 600-ohm loads. So you could just wire your headphones to a couple of 600-ohm line stages.

Impedance is not the only factor controlling how hard a headphone is to drive, and in fact hardness in driving can be any of at least three and probably four or more factors.

In general, all other things being essentially the same, such as between beyerdynamic drivers that are 32, 80, 250, or 600 ohms for the same dt770, they all use the same amount of "power" but the 32-ohm version gets loud lower in the dial than the 600-ohm version.

But what the volume knob controls is voltage. Ohm's Law says that the lower impedance load will sink more current.

So, if you assume that the only difference is the impedance of the coil in the driver - if the coil weight and shape is consistent, along with the magnets, diaphragm, etc, for the same sound pressure, each version of the driver will sink the same amount of "power", but the low impedance version will need more current and less voltage while the higher impedance version needs more voltage and not as much current.

The Ohm's Law factor affects the sound in a couple ways that have everything to do with what you plug the headphones into.

Since portable devices are generally low voltage devices, to get a high impedance headphone to a comfortable listening level with a portable device may require that you turn up the volume to the point where the output is clipping. This isn't an issue if you have an amp with enough gain and a reasonable power supply (9v on up).

If your headphones are really low impedance, like 16 or 32 ohms, they may require more current for things like big bass notes than the source can supply. In these situations the bass can seem lean because what should slam is just kinda going *splat* instead.

If you push a 60hz square wave through a not-enough-current amp with a low impedance load and watch the output on a scope, what you see is the left hand side of the wave going all the way to the top, and then just dropping off to ground again instead of making a straight line to the right-hand side of the wave.

But I'll say it again: these are not the only factors.

My 60-ohm RFT HOK80-2 needs a higher setting on the volume knob than my 600-ohm K240 Sextett. It also needs at least 10 times as much current thanks to 1/10th the impedance. The mighty HOK is truly hard to drive - y'all don't know from hard to drive.

The difference? efficiency. Mechanically speaking, it just takes more current to move air with the HOK's PMB-knockoff orthodymamic driver than it does with AKG's relatively efficient DKK32 dynamic driver.

My 30-plus-years-old DT302 has a 600 ohm impedance and i can drive it to a comfortable listening level without clipping from the line-out jack on my iRiver H120. Why? It's yet more efficient than AKG's driver.

Another factor - sensitivity. It may well be that the higher impedance coil can react to smaller nuances in the signal than the lower impedance coil, but I don't really know if this is a practical truth in the reality of headphones or not.

But generally it's true that, given enough voltage in the power supply, the higher impedance load is actually easier for the amplifier to drive, thus the amp will be more accurate and run faster.

The flipside of that - really low impedance loads like 16-ohm IEMs can make the amp in the source misbehave a bit, resulting in audible hissing.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 10:09 PM Post #6 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The difference? efficiency.
...
Another factor - sensitivity.



More potential for confusion: what you call efficiency is often called sensitivity in headphone specs.

Also, you didn't mention the output impedance issue (assuming I'm not confusing two different things myself) which can make low-impedance and sometimes even average-impedance headphones sound boomy. Not necessarily a bad thing for certain lean AKGs though...

All in all, so-called high-impedance (250-300 ohms) headphones play well with a lot more amps than most low-impedance heapdhones. My portables can drive them just fine in practice (except for the crippled Creative, that is) but the actually high-impedance cans (600+ ohms) are another matter.
EDIT: Yes, there are efficient 600 ohms cans. Mine aren't efficient enough and would need to be reterminated to be used with portables anyway.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 10:13 PM Post #7 of 26
My understanding was (taking Ety ER4P versus ER4S as an example)

ER-4P (35 ohms?)
ER-4S (100 ohms?)

Provided it has adequate amplification the ER-4S has a deeper and cleaner extension top to bottom. No "splat" factor.

I always thought this was why the 16 ohm Super Fi Pros sounded so unrefined. There is definitely a splat factor with them. Should have been made 32 ohm or so...
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 10:26 PM Post #8 of 26
HFat, a little off topic but what do you mean except for the crippled creative, what crippled creative? lol..

any how thanks for all the mass of information, i'll take some more time reading it tomorrow... and then reply to that subject haha.

Thanks,

-Jo
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 10:39 PM Post #9 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif
More potential for confusion: what you call efficiency is often called sensitivity in headphone specs.


Yeah. I hate that. It's plenty confusing, to the point where I've seen people here look at the sensitivity rating of a headphone and think "wow, it's probably really detailed!".

Quote:

Also, you didn't mention the output impedance issue (assuming I'm not confusing two different things myself) which can make low-impedance and sometimes even average-impedance headphones sound boomy. Not necessarily a bad thing for certain lean AKGs though....


Yup. And then there's the issue of how reactive of a load the coil presents, and how well the amp handles reactive loads.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 10:57 PM Post #10 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by P.F. Jo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
HFat, a little off topic but what do you mean except for the crippled creative


I mean I've got a couple of wimpy Creative DAPs. Maybe they're all like this... I'd have to check.
I don't know that for a fact (mea culpa) but I bet they crippled it so that people won't blow their ears off with the supplied buds.
I've never had such an issue with Korean DAPs.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 11:02 PM Post #11 of 26
oh, in DAP you mean.. sources? I have a zen vision: m... so im trying to understand if it falls under your mentioned category in your terms lol : )

Thanks for everything up 'till now.

im off to sleep heh, see ya tomorrow.

-Jo
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 11:16 PM Post #12 of 26
Here's a condenced version:

Think of ohms as weight.
The "heaver" something is, the more power required to move it.

In other words, say you've got two headphones. One is 32ohms, one is 100ohms. Your volume scale is 1-11. The headphone that is 100ohms will sound quieter at 7, than the 32ohm one does. the 100ohm cans may be at the same volume around 11, as the 32ohms cans were at 7.

Because the 100ohm cans require more power, you may not get as much detail with the 32ohm cans. However, with the appropriate amount of power, the 100ohm cans will have more detail, at a lower volume.

This is a VERY simplified version, and there are many more factors, but this seems to be what will apply to you the most.

And it may just be my wording, but I think I might be getting it wrong. Feel free to correct me.
 
Oct 10, 2007 at 11:54 PM Post #13 of 26
This is all very interesting. I have pair of 250ohm dt770s and I am driving them off a headroom total airhead, which is not very strong. My question is if I get a more powerful amp will I get more detail out of the headphones, than using the headroom amp at the same volume.
 
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Oct 11, 2007 at 12:15 AM Post #14 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yeah. I hate that. It's plenty confusing, to the point where I've seen people here look at the sensitivity rating of a headphone and think "wow, it's probably really detailed!".



Hi!
A small question maybe someone can answer.

In a headphone specs, at what do I look to get the sensitivity of the headphone?

Someone told me the DB, but I doubt that!

regards,
 
Oct 11, 2007 at 12:29 AM Post #15 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by luckypictures /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And it may just be my wording, but I think I might be getting it wrong. Feel free to correct me.


It may be your wording but I guess the problem is actually with your reading.

Again, impedance has no bearing how much power you need. Ceteris paribus, it has a bearing on the voltage. But ceteris rarely are...
 

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