[Redcarmoose]

Yes I'm aware of all those things. It's just a medium I've never experienced first hand so that's a big reason why I'm interested. I'm just 39 years old but I regret not getting into it years ago when people were basically giving away their collections for next to nothing. But at the time I didn't have the space to put a collection. Now I have some space to have a collection if I wanted it. Perhaps not thousands of records but a decent size collection. Weirdly enough I wish I had even alive when records were the main medium for audio.

Curiosity for the win!

 

[matthewhypolite]

It's really always going to be a matter of opinion. Meaning most of the time here stuff isn't as black and white as we want it to be. Also remember audiophiles are always tying to get to the top of the mountain sound wise. Sound Science has had the trend to call records a novelty, even when I posted about records they would get very little respect back starting in 2010. Now with the resurgence of popularity even SS has altered their stance slightly. It is personal even how we view the media. Meaning I tend to believe that recent improvements to budget mid-fi sound have pushed basic digital over the edge, to a place offering substantial bang-for-the-buck. Though some people have budget turntables and enjoy the whole experience? Meaning they find albums and even though their set-up is limited, much of this stuff is perception, so it has little to do with reality, but is based on attitude. I have had vinyl since the early 1970s, I spent a ton on records in the mid-eighties and then went through a buying phase from 2001 till 2010. I used to have literally a room with every wall in shelfs dedicated to records. I would find about three records to concentrate on then take them down to the 1st floor to the main system. On time I had family over and allowed them to share in the experience, only I had so many records that quality was not always noted. I had a few copies of Bad Company, the first album. My niece picked it out, though when we got downstairs it was warped and would not play. So there is something to think about. But generally it is a piece by piece idea if the sound is better. As often the newer remaster sounds great. Meaning, yes there are often albums that sound really good the way they came out on vinyl, but some modern day records sound awful. You need to address just how much your going to spend but truthfully you don't know what you want most of the time. Meaning listening to vinyl is a series of experiments till you reach a great place. I had used turntables for most of my life. Ones that costed $40 at the thrift store. I don't know but I hear now they charge a lot for such things, and the fact that maybe such things don't exist anymore. Due to the popularity of vinyl, used record players get a premium price. I topped out with about a $1600 turntable and $400 preamp (used). But primarily I have sold almost all of my vinyl. I have a small selection of favorites on vinyl to remind me what it's like. Still I never criticize people for saying it's best. I kinda do think it's best at times. Still it depends what sound you are after. Also there really are modern day records which sound amazing. Sea Change by Beck is one. I would say it's better than digital any day of the week. Still getting into vinyl is difficult for many as you need a better turntable and needle to get down into the grooves to reduce surface noise. Better turntables sound clearer than cheap turntables. But it's a whole set up that matters. Meaning the sound comes from the grouping of equipment. So slowly over the years vinyl lovers pieced together an arraignment of components which sounded best. This is no easy thing. You have to learn how to set-up a turntable, you need to educate yourself on MM or MC cartridges. You need to understand the way to level a turntable and not get speaker feedback. It goes on and on and on and on. Take a quick listen to vinyl? No it's a half-hour job before you even push play. You need to go through the records to find one. Normally listening rooms are dimly lit. Maybe you need a flashlight? Then the writing is small, then the record is covered with maybe two or three layers till you get two the actual vinyl. You need to take it out, being wise not to damage it. You need maybe to clean it. Antistatic Brush it while placed onto the turntable. Before that you need to turn everything on. What about the speed of the turntable? You slowly lower the needle down after putting the record clamp on........and music comes out. Still with headphones and even with the most pricy set-up there is ground-loop hum. That hum never goes away. That is the first part of getting used to headphones, next is the groove surface noise, that never goes entirely away either. And finally the pop sounds, which you slowly mentally learn to listen through, like learning to drive in the fog. Yes the response of vinyl is maybe better, but it is for those dedicated to put up with all this side static. One the other hand investing in digital can at times come close to replicating the vinyl experience. But remember it's an album by album effort, meaning at times the vinyl master is better and at times some new digital release sounds fantastic. SO again no exact black and white. Are you going to be able to learn to listen through the pops and ground-hum, the surface noise, will it bug you? Or will you be able to meditate your way into nirvana?

there is no hum or pops on my rig, mild static on certain records though.

and the entire process you described for playing a record, I.e. finding it, taking it out the sleeve , placing it on the tt , lowering the needle etc, is all apart of the experience, and everytime I play a record I enjoy the entire process end to end, especially wih the resulting sound.

the only part about record playback I'd rather have to do without, is record care / treatment. that Indeed can be a pain to keep your collection mint for the best playback.But record preservation and care is something I've accepted and 100% worth it for the return.

Also a main thing nobody seems to mention. You don't have to choose one or the other, why not have both?
My digital collection is still in tact , and I have a tidal sub and roon is my main interface. So for casual listening "around the house, in the gym, bathroom etc" I have digital. But when I'm ready to do nothing else but listen to music, a vinyl record is most Def going on. Actually currently building a dedicated audio room for the sole purpose of toning down and enjoying some vinyl.

Build Log Here :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/transition-to-speakers-tube-magic.959951/post-16589339

 

[matthewhypolite]

Yes I'm aware of all those things. It's just a medium I've never experienced first hand so that's a big reason why I'm interested. I'm just 39 years old but I regret not getting into it years ago when people were basically giving away their collections for next to nothing. But at the time I didn't have the space to put a collection. Now I have some space to have a collection if I wanted it. Perhaps not thousands of records but a decent size collection. Weirdly enough I wish I had even alive when records were the main medium for audio.

38 here, and I hear you re alive when records were main , I've hunted down some rare OG records from back in the Day. and the modern masters from impex, acoustic sounds, mofi all sound great too.

Here are the analog / masters I have in my collection.








recently got this delivered also :

 

[Redcarmoose]

there is no hum or pops on my rig, mild static on certain records though.

and the entire process you described for playing a record, I.e. finding it, taking it out the sleeve , placing it on the tt , lowering the needle etc, is all apart of the experience, and everytime I play a record I enjoy the entire process end to end, especially wih the resulting sound.

the only part about record playback I'd rather have to do without, is record care / treatment. that Indeed can be a pain to keep your collection mint for the best playback.But record preservation and care is something I've accepted and 100% worth it for the return.

Also a main thing nobody seems to mention. You don't have to choose one or the other, why not have both?
My digital collection is still in tact , and I have a tidal sub and roon is my main interface. So for casual listening "around the house, in the gym, bathroom etc" I have digital. But when I'm ready to do nothing else but listen to music, a vinyl record is most Def going on. Actually currently building a dedicated audio room for the sole purpose of toning down and enjoying some vinyl.

Build Log Here :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/transition-to-speakers-tube-magic.959951/post-16589339

If you don’t hear the actual needle in the groove, it may be speakers in use. But the pops and ground-hum and groove sound are always there, I have used $100,000 USD dollar turntable systems and these artifacts of playback are there. But most noticeable with headphones, this is a headphone site, don’t forget. Believe me, I do think vinyl sounds better at times, but it depends on the piece (actual item) of music if the recording is better for vinyl replay. Of course it’s both, I have both, they are independent routes but often end up close to the same in replay quality. Not exactly the same, but enjoyable.

In 1984, the year you were born, I was a good ten years into spinning vinyl.

 

[matthewhypolite]

If you don’t hear the actual needle in the groove, it may be speakers in use. But the pops and ground-hum and groove sound are always there, I have used $100,000 USD dollar turntable systems and these artifacts of playback are there. But most noticeable with headphones, this is a headphone site, don’t forget. Believe me, I do think vinyl sounds better at times, but it depends on the piece (actual item) of music if the recording is better for vinyl replay. Of course it’s both, I have both, they are independent routes but often end up close to the same in replay quality. Not exactly the same, but enjoyable.

In 1984, the year you were born, I was a good ten years into spinning vinyl.

I have a high end headphone rig, primary for my listening right now. I only get ground hum from my woofer but not audible during playback. through my headphones , quiet as a mouse , needle in the groove sure, but I don't hear that ground hum through my headphones.

Abyss ab1266 phi tc and Susvara through WA33 EE, regar planar 10 TT

 

[MacMan31]

38 here, and I hear you re alive when records were main , I've hunted down some rare OG records from back in the Day. and the modern masters from impex, acoustic sounds, mofi all sound great too.

Here are the analog / masters I have in my collection.








recently got this delivered also :

Certainly a nice collection. Some I recognize. But these modern pressings of old albums are very expensive. Are they really worth the price?

 

[hakunamakaka]

The big advantage with vinyls for me is that I listen through the whole release. My mind is not busy trying to find a different track or switch through various artists which often happens on streams. Majority of the releases that I fell in love with came from LP's. Another thing is that my taste in music relies on the stuff that was released during turntable era and lots of it is still not in digital domain. There are collectors like Gilles peterson, Robert kiswell who release mixes and at least some of it is available to wider audience



There is misconception that vinyls gives low quality sound. For my subjective taste vinyl did sound better compared to digital (even if the record had clicks and pops). it was achieved with vintage thorens turntable/cartridge for 90$ and tube preamp. Every time I switched back to digital it seemed that speakers shrunk in size and sound become leaner. All the instrumental/vocal centric music sounded phenomenal to me and with electronica I stayed on digital.

Now I am only in digital, but not because I want to, but because it is more convenient in my current situation. I can't move my collection easily if I need to change places

 

[Redcarmoose]

Congratulations, maybe stuff has improved, actually that’s wonderful to find out! The best!

I have a high end headphone rig, primary for my listening right now. I only get ground hum from my woofer but not auditable during playback. though my headphones , quiet as a mouse , needle in the groove sure, but I don't hear that ground hum through my headphones.

Abyss ab1266 phi tc and Susvara through WA33 EE, regar planar 10 TT

 

[matthewhypolite]

Certainly a nice collection. Some I recognize. But these modern pressings of old albums are very expensive. Are they really worth the price?

I've not listened to everything i've recently acquired yet, but i can say this.

If i had to chose my 3 best sounding albums, it would be:

1. Grover Washington - Winelight (Nautilus Version) [I have a regular non-nautilus pressing, and the nautilus all analog version is just amazing)
2. Stevie Ray Vaughan - Couldn't Stand The Weather - Mofi Analog Master->DSD->Vinyl.
Jimi Hendrix - 3. Electric Ladyland - (Polydor All Analog Version) - I have the 50th Anniversary Digital Remaster->Vinyl copy from amazon, but the OG copy is substantially better.

I can say all the Mofi stuff sounds better than the regular $30 pressing from amazon, but i have a couple of well recorder cheaper albums as well, e.g. The Rippingtons - Kilimanjaro sounds absolutely amazing for a regular priced record, but for the most part, the all analog and mofi stuff sounds the best in my collection.
Which is the other thing you need to be aware of with vinyl. Not all pressings are made equal, and things can get really expensive really quickly when you start trying to get your hands on certain records, but that's like anything else in this hobby.

The big advantage with vinyls for me is that I listen through the whole release. My mind is not busy trying to find a different track or switch through various artists which often happens on streams. Majority of the releases that I fell in love with came from LP's. Another thing is that my taste in music relies on the stuff that was released during turntable era and lots of it is still not in digital domain. There are collectors like Gilles peterson, Robert kiswell who release mixes and at least some of it is available to wider audience



There is misconception that vinyls gives low quality sound. For my subjective taste vinyl did sound better compared to digital (even if the record had clicks and pops). it was achieved with vintage thorens turntable/cartridge for 90$ and tube preamp. Every time I switched back to digital it seemed that speakers shrunk in size and sound become leaner. All the instrumental/vocal centric music sounded phenomenal to me and with electronica I stayed on digital.

Now I am only in digital, but not because I want to, but because it is more convenient in my current situation. I can't move my collection easily if I need to change places

100% Agreed on the quality improvement from digital->vinyl on even an entry-level price point, and there's more improvements to be had going up the chain. The main improvement i got improving my source gear was lower noise-floor, and more details retrieval, which made everything open up even further.

The music you posted there sounds good, i'll check it out. Do you have a recommended LP release I should be looking at?
I also have a couple of albums i cannot find anywhere on digital, pics here:

 

[MacMan31]

I think my desire to get into vinyl has a big part to do with the experience. I know it's definitely more "hands on" but I don't think I would mind that. I just wish I had gotten into it many years earlier when records were basically being given away. So the current cost of the vinyl hobby does scare me away.

 

[matthewhypolite]

I've just unsealed a couple of records, and just going through the artwork, track material, handling the record, everything is part of the experience.
It's an intimate touch you just don't get with digital that I really appreciate. It's more than just "listening to music"

 

[matthewhypolite]

@MacMan31 Here's a couple videos on Digital/Vinyl from PS Audio:

 

[MacMan31]

@MacMan31 Here's a couple videos on Digital/Vinyl from PS Audio:

Thanks for the videos. One thing that was constant from each video is that he said the vinyl sounds different than the digital alternative of the same album. Even the last video saying that DSD (which is what SACD is) sounds different than vinyl. He said that even if both SACD and vinyl are made from the same DSD master that most people would still prefer the vinyl version. He does not really explain why but just that it sounds "better" to most people. I am also looking for an SACD/CD player as well. Mine is just a standard CD player. I'm not looking to replace my CD collection. Just to add vinyl as a complimentary medium.

 

[matthewhypolite]

Yea, what he said i've experienced myself, i even carried my vinyl player to my brother's all-digital rig, one he's accustomed too, high end 9H $35k speakers, and he said no way would the vinyl outperform his digital, after we spun up the first record, he had no choice but to admit "yes, this sounds significantly better". Im sure there are folks that would prefer digital, but vinly is "different", in a good way.

 

[The Jester]

For me at least, Digital hasn’t quite got it 100% correct yet, although some of the higher end (an price) units are getting close, brands Like PS Audio, DCS, Chord, etc seem to spent a lot of effort on timing accuracy and use custom programmable FPGA’s instead of “chip DAC’s” chasing better results and do narrow the gap with well recorded digital music, as opposed to overly loud and compressed efforts of a lot of popular music, as well as compressing the dynamic range the lower level signals also become relatively louder, giving the impression of more detail which goes some way to explaining the more “relaxed” and “musical” description put forward by Vinyl users,
Sadly Vinyl still has a price premium over CD which is the reverse of when CD first appeared in the mid 80’s.