[chych]

Quote:

Nope, it can't be an audiophile CDP then. Sony made a pretty interesting move in making their 9000ES and 777ES and SCD-1 not compatible with CDRs...it makes a little sense that if you can afford a player over $1000, that you wouldn't still be over there downloading MP3s and burning it as "free music". Obviously if you're forking over $1000 on a CDP, you're in it for the pure sound quality, and to allow MP3s or CDR playback would just compromise that sound quality. As dhwilken says, there's no way this player is going to sound as good as a more dedicated player playing a dedicated format.

Well wow, there's positive thinking for you

I should point and laugh because my $150 DVD player can play CDRs and your $1000+ can't

And redbook performance is excellent with a DI/O. Thats positive thinking for me

Maybe I should say your CDP sucks because it can play SACDs? Or it can play redbook? I wonder, what real difference there is when the player can play cdr/rw or not... I really doubt that it is significant.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

I should point and laugh because my $150 DVD player can play CDRs and your $1000+ can't And redbook performance is excellent with a DI/O. Thats positive thinking for me

You can go ahead and laugh all you want. CDRs just don't play a part in my life for music, so I could care less if a player can play CDRs, regardless of price. If I had bought a $20k Linn Sondek CD12 and it couldn't play CDRs, I could really care less. If I'm going to go with a whole seperate CDP, I don't see much of a point in having gotten it if I don't go out and buy CDs. Going out and buying CDs is simply part of the whole experience IMO. In fact I think that is where I have the most fun in my music life...not when I'm at home listening, but when I can go out and browse around the latest CDs and discover something new and interesting that puts a smile on my face. I get way more delight discovering new music that jibes with me out in the middle of some store than to listen to what I have back home through my system with my R10s.

That whole experience with discovering new music by trying out new CDs I'd never heard of is what put me firmly back into CD land. I probably would have never bought the 9000ES or any CDP for that matter if it weren't for that experience. I am much more delighted nowdays flipping through my binder and seeing what I've accumulated ever since I got that Denon 370 than I was a year ago, when I had just a few CDs, mostly popular music, and a whole hard drive full of MP3s, also of the latest popular music. The CDs I have now are CDs I would have never imagined buying a year ago. I'd definitely say I've been musically enlightened, and am much more musically happy. And MP3s and CDRs had nothing to do with it. In fact both subtracted from it.

The only feasible use I have for CDRs is for data. For portable usage, I got my MDs. I've already fully gone back to buying CDs since I buy CDs more to discover new music than to continuously buy CDs from familiar artists to me. I don't have the time or the patience to rip tracks into MP3s and then back into WAVs and then worry about getting that perfect burn at 1X. Like Nezer I prefer to listen to entire albums rather than listen to compilations. I can't even find halfway decent sounding MP3s online anymore if I want to try out something, so I just do my auditioning straight at the store. That leaves no room in my life for music CDRs.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

I can *guarantee* that I can make an MP3 that couldn't be picked out as such in a blind test by any human

LOL! OK...bits is bits right? CD, perfect sound forever, right? Oh, compression doesn't affect the sound! I suppose no human can tell the difference between Red Book and DVD-A or SACD either.

Thank heavens I didn't fall for these new formats. MP3 is all you need.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 The only feasible use I have for CDRs is for data.

While I agree, for the most part, with everything you say, I do enjoy two things about CD-R's -- the ability to resequence music, and the ability for other people to introduce me to music I would not otherwise have access to. I do buy all complete albums that are available (and by that I don't just mean regularly available, I also mean imports or anything). But sometimes I meet someone online who wants to introduce me to new music (and vice versa), so we trade samplers of stuff, after gauging each others' tastes.

And also, sometimes I do it for myself. The most obvious example is FractuRED, a version of Red by King Crimson, with that one noisy track replaced by "Fractured".

 

[Nezer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle LOL! OK...bits is bits right? CD, perfect sound forever, right? Oh, compression doesn't affect the sound! I suppose no human can tell the difference between Red Book and DVD-A or SACD either. Thank heavens I didn't fall for these new formats. MP3 is all you need.

Let me rephrase this again, I didn't say there are no difference in sound because there is, I can even hear it on lo-fi equipment. I'm not saying that at all, what I am saying is I don't think taht any of us could consistantly pick-out the encoded ones in a blind test.

I never said that it didn't change the sound. And I *certainly* didn't imply that CDs are perfect. Although I haven't tried it I'm certain I could pick-out in a blind test redbook vs. SACD given the right source material.

So if we want to continue this discussion then let's start a new thread, I didn't mean to hijack this one.

 

[Old Pa]

Well, that certainly is a full discussion of why I did not include MP3s in the included formats for my current "dream" digital source.
As for audiophile grade, if we limit it to what actually sounds better rather than including past biases (ie against CD or carousels or even vinyl) and paying too much attention with journalistic experts with conflicts of interest with their advertisers (and their own polarizing biases), then maybe we can agree that the definition floats as we learn more, the technology trickles down, and the marketplace works on the price. I know that the reality of audiophile means a whole lot different than when I got involved 35 years ago. I would have killed for what we now agree is mid-fi.
A carousel CD player is exteremly convenient for the way I now listen, and there should be no technical reason that a carousel cannot be designed and built to audiophile standards for a price. BTW, while I now appreciate the blood-in-the-eye that rises to the MP3 argument, this thread did start out as a versatile HARDWARE thread.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

What's wrong with including CDR and MP3 playback?

How is it supposed to affect the sound?

If you throw enough money at it I'm sure you can build a single audiophile grade CDP that plays everything. The pickup and output stages can be shared by all these formats instead of having to buy a different player for each format--if you buy a $2000 transport that does everything it's definitely going to sound better compared to $2000 worth of 5-6 different players

And adding mp3 just requires decoder hardware, it doesn't affect the pickup mechanism does it?

The bandwidth of the auditory nerve is below 50kbps. (Actually where I found the research result, it was even lower... wait, I'll come up with the source later) In theory then, 50kbps can be enough to encode all sounds such that they are indistinguishable from the original. It's a question of whether the psychoacoustic coder can extract the most relevant information to code and avoid changing the music in such a way that human ears can *detect*.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

The only feasible use I have for CDRs is for data.

I'm with you on that one, Vert, with one exception: compilations. I often make compilations of songs on CDR for use in the car. But I buy all my music, and only make compilations of stuff I already own...

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF I'm with you on that one, Vert, with one exception: compilations. I often make compilations of songs on CDR for use in the car. But I buy all my music, and only make compilations of stuff I already own...

I second that.

George

 

[dhwilkin]

Thirded.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Quote:

I often make compilations of songs on CDR for use in the car.

That's where my MD player comes in.

Of course my car doesn't have a CDP back home, and off in college I don't have a car.

 

[Nezer]

BOUNCE!!

Any new news on this front? Anyone overseas have the 747? If so what do you think?

I'm thinking hard about taking this kind of plunge and I'm tempted to order from the UK if need be.

 

[aixer]

One thing good about the euro stuff is SCART, man I love that
stuff and the 747A looks awesome. But I think you sould wait
NEZER (LONGER, I am waiting as well). Just got my first Pioneer
elite item which happens to be a reciever, 36TX and used my old
reciever to power the 2 back speakers and this thing is wonderful.
Right away I went hunting for a new DVD player that plays
everything, 2 weeks of looking and I was very unhappy with what
is out there, well except for some rare/odd stuff like the 747A.
If I have the cash and I was very confident I would buy it, but
com'on the British pound is not a currency to over look.

What I am trying to say is CHILL OUT GUYs, (ie The guys hunting
hard for the perfect player, like I once was) give it some time.
Now when I want to buy some new and exciting I think about the
**** I did for the enjoyment of high tech stuff.
Example my first DVD was, NO let start earlier it might help more.
Ok first cd experience was when my grade 7 teacher took the
class to her house, and I was blown away listening to
technotronic on a cd player(don't remember what brand'1987),
and told myself I got to spend less money at the local arcade
and eat less(fast food). I don't know when the trubo grafx16
came out, but that was my first cd player cost my $499cdn(1989),
the 2nd player I got was lucky just found out was a sony D25
pcd at a pawn shop for $100(1996). so basicaly the good old days
until DVD came about.
First DVD player I got after hunting for a week Proscan 8600P
which cost 999.00(1998/1999), wow I made a big purchase.
Why did buy it? For the sake of the future, this player came with builtin DD decoding (GREAT WOW!). Four months later I found
out about DTS and that my player can't play DTS DVD at all,
well its not the 8600P fault it did not say it was DTS output
compatile, alright it was my fault I was just a dumb ass.
Now comes the panasonic A320, $470 after the %40 off b/c
The Bay was closing, hmm sould I buy this now or wait for the
PlayStation 2, while I got it can't wait. Why? Builtin DD and DTS decoding and it is %40 off. Next year came alot got the PS2
$450. OHH F*&^K my play don't play CDR/RW dam, ok I know I'll
give my Dad the A320, and I will get the Pioneer 333A($350) it plays cdr/rw, alright I am happy again. Ohh but whats this mp3?
Hmm it would be nice I don't have to hook up my sony D-CJ01 to
listen to my mp3 cds, if my DVD player can read mp3s.

Hopfuly you guys get my point buy now, don't ask me what my point is, I can't realy explian, b/c In my 2nd fish tank 2 snails are fighting, I am very distrub by this, for a very slow creature it is
able to whip the other one around very hard.
Ok ok sorry about that guys, I know most ppl are not like me,
and probably have/make more money than me. But we are here
b/c we like good stuff ie stuff that the average JOHN do not know
about.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I do agree with some
people on having seperate untils ie 2 dvd players one highend
and one normal( the one that plays almost everything like the
pioneer 444 or 440), and if I still want a kick ass all in one I would
duoble the price of what I am thinking about and save up for it.
I think more A/V stuff will be firmware upgradable in the near
future but than again your computer might take over for
everything. LOL

One last detail I would like to share is that, waiting is good, it lets
you cool off, and to the guys who want to reply by saying you
could be waiting for ever. Well good for you.

Thanks for reading I know their will be spelling mistake, b/c I am
still kinda distrub by my 2 snails, don't get me wrong I fight
Beta fish all the time. Oh I realize what my point is.
YOU SOULD NOT HAVE TO UNGRADE YOUR A/V EQUIP. LIKE YOUR
DESKTOP COMPUTER.

 

[kelly]

Vertigo said the Sony players could not play CDR discs. I did a search just now on the XA777ES and found CDR/CDRW playback in the features list. Did they back off on this or did Vert make a mistake? (Or are the specs on this page mislisted?)

It doesn't make sense to me that any company would decide to not allow playback of CDR discs on purpose. A poorly pressed disc could easily be mistaken for a CDR if they were trying to actively disallow them. What might have been true of earlier players is that if the pickup laser is not finely tuned it can sometimes not retrieve a poorly burned CDR well. Many DVD players won't play CDRs well though if you experiment enough you can typically find a brand of discs they will play. My old Sony S7000 plays CDRs well because it has a seperate laser for CD than for DVD. This allows them to more closely tune each pickup for the respective format. I believe all Panasonics do this and I think all Sonys do now too. So again, I can't imagine why they're not work in a SACD player.

Now CDRW is a different story.

I would be irritated if I could not play my CDRs. I have CDRs from some bands who ONLY HAVE CDRs. This isn't really a piracy issue. Maybe you can make an argument for not supporting MP3 since if you care about quality, you'd prefer redbook and if you were in a bind you could dump mp3 to wav and burn it and not lose anything.

Anyway... a new Pioneer has arrived called the 47 and is universal. I assume this is the same as the 747. Mod people are already talking about it and trying to figure out what they can do with it. Personally, I've chosen a side. I want DVD-A to die so SACD can live because I don't think DVD-A has a chance of living and with two formats in the market, they're canabalizing each other. I don't know that there's room in the market for both and so far no one has said kind things about the DVD-As being released, even if the format is capable of better.

 

[MacDEF]

Kelly, my 333ES reads CDRs just fine