A Headphone Measurement Discussion (That Started In The IE800S Thread)
Nov 8, 2017 at 11:31 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 66
NOTE 2017-11-15 02:20 EST: This thread is a copy of posts from a Sennheiser IE800S thread that ended up veering into more of a measurements discussion after I made this post (below). I've copied the posts that were more about headphone measurements as the primary topic (versus the IE800S impressions as a primary topic).




10khz got me spooked, usually not a fan of those 'airy' tunings when treble focus is so high up... hopefully crinacle and innerfidelity get to measure them for some more familiar context.

I didn't hear anything suggesting a 10 kHz peak, so we measured the IE800S today. Here's a preliminary frequency response measurement:

Sennheiser-IE800S-Frequency-Response.jpg


First impression: The Sennheiser IE800S improves on the IE800 with a greater sense of refinement -- the IE800S is less "fun" than the IE800 (in a good way), more precise (in a good way), with a more linear tonal balance. We're working on the Head-Fi Buying Guide update now, so I'll post a more thorough review (and probably more measurements) in there.

Here is the measurement system we used for the measurement above:
 
Last edited:
Nov 9, 2017 at 6:51 AM Post #2 of 66

Dobrescu George

Reviewer: AudiophileHeaven
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Posts
15,145
Likes
7,811
Location
Bucharest, Romania
I didn't hear anything suggesting a 10 kHz peak, so we measured the IE800S today. Here's a preliminary frequency response measurement:



First impression: The Sennheiser IE800S improves on the IE800 with a greater sense of refinement -- the IE800S is less "fun" than the IE800 (in a good way), more precise (in a good way), with a more linear tonal balance. We're working on the Head-Fi Buying Guide update now, so I'll post a more thorough review (and probably more measurements) in there.

Here is the measurement system we used for the measurement above:
\

Great job!

This gives us good insight on what yo expect when it comes to the response frequency of ie800s!
 
Nov 9, 2017 at 12:03 PM Post #4 of 66

Rob80b

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Posts
2,149
Likes
920
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Nov 9, 2017 at 6:42 PM Post #6 of 66

Kunlun

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Posts
3,750
Likes
386
@Rob80b
Jude is really showing us that there are a lot of garbage measurements around. While I'm sure there is always further to go and he will refine his measurements with experience, already we can see that this is miles ahead of what's been posted.
 
Nov 9, 2017 at 10:52 PM Post #8 of 66
Thanks Jude....quite a contrast from the reported graphs on the original ie800.
http://frequency-response.blogspot.ca/2016/06/meeaudio-pinnacle-p1.html


and here...
http://en.goldenears.net/20925


...

When you wear a headphone and I wear that same headphone, our individual transfer functions can vary rather substantially, and these differences (independent of preference) can significantly impact our individual experience with a given headphone. (This is an interesting discussion that we'll be having more of soon.) That said, I think if the graphs above reasonably represent an average human experience of the IE800, then, in a sweep through that range, most of us should hear the drops both of those graphs show at 3 kHz (and thereabouts). In the first graph, relative to 1 kHz, the drop to 3 kHz is steep and approaches 14 or 15 decibels, with an even deeper drop through 5 kHz. In the second graph, it's slightly less steep (but still steep) and is around 12 or 13 decibels.

Put your IE800 on, and play the following video at a moderate volume level:


Do you hear a drop in level of 13 to 15 dBSPL as the sweep transitions from 1 kHz to 3 kHz? Some may, but I think most will not. I definitely do not.

...any chance on (re) measuring the originals on your set-up?

Sure. Right now we're working on the Head-Fi Buying Guide, and there's a long way to go. I'll do that after, as we're running new measures of some of the new gear in the Guide (like the IE800S). That said, I'd expect our IE800 measurement will look a lot more like the IE800S plot I posted above than the IE800 plots you posted.
 
Nov 9, 2017 at 11:00 PM Post #9 of 66

Deftone

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Posts
4,706
Likes
4,012
Location
UK
When you wear a headphone and I wear that same headphone, our individual transfer functions can vary rather substantially, and these differences (independent of preference) can significantly impact our individual experience with a given headphone. (This is an interesting discussion that we'll be having more of soon.) That said, I think if the graphs above reasonably represent an average human experience of the IE800, then, in a sweep through that range, most of us should hear the drops both of those graphs show at 3 kHz (and thereabouts). In the first graph, relative to 1 kHz, the drop to 3 kHz is steep and approaches 14 or 15 decibels, with an even deeper drop through 5 kHz. In the second graph, it's slightly less steep (but still steep) and is around 12 or 13 decibels.

Put your IE800 on, and play the following video at a moderate volume level:


Do you hear that drop? Some may, but I think most will not. I do not.



Sure. Right now we're working on the Head-Fi Buying Guide, and there's a long way to go. I'll do that after, as we're running new measures of some of the new gear in the Guide (like the IE800S). That said, I'd expect our IE800 measurement will look a lot more like the IE800S plot I posted above than the IE800 plots you posted.

I just listened to this with my IE800S and I did hear the dips clearly I also heard well up to 19khz and then after it tailed off very very quietly.

The limit of human hearing is 20khz? so that sounds like it’s normal then.
 
Nov 9, 2017 at 11:47 PM Post #11 of 66
The audio of that video has so much very apparent aliasing artifacts it's not really possible to use it for any purpose IMO.

Yes, and the artifacts are more apparent at higher frequencies -- it's a YouTube video, and it's obviously not as clean and pure as the tone generator from our audio analyzer. That said, you should still be able to use it for this purpose. Again, if you have an IE800, do you hear a big drop in level (13 to 15 dBSPL) as the sweep transitions from 1 kHz to 3 kHz? Some may, but I think most will not. Again, I definitely do not.
 

Attachments

  • Periodic-Audio-Be-versus-Etymotic-ER4SR-FR-DF.jpg
    Periodic-Audio-Be-versus-Etymotic-ER4SR-FR-DF.jpg
    434.9 KB · Views: 0
  • Periodic-Audio-Be-FR-RAW.jpg
    Periodic-Audio-Be-FR-RAW.jpg
    598.4 KB · Views: 0
Nov 10, 2017 at 7:10 AM Post #12 of 66

Dobrescu George

Reviewer: AudiophileHeaven
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Posts
15,145
Likes
7,811
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Yes, and the artifacts are more apparent at higher frequencies -- it's a YouTube video, and it's obviously not as clean and pure as the tone generator from our audio analyzer. That said, you should still be able to use it for this purpose. Again, if you have an IE800, do you hear a big drop in level (13 to 15 dBSPL) as the sweep transitions from 1 kHz to 3 kHz? Some may, but I think most will not. Again, I definitely do not.

I'm quite sure the drop isn't that large on the original ie800.

When I'm EQ'ing it, I add 3-5 dB of 1-3 kHz or so, but not more
 
Nov 10, 2017 at 1:15 PM Post #13 of 66
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Posts
12,994
Likes
33,583
@Rob80b
Jude is really showing us that there are a lot of garbage measurements around. While I'm sure there is always further to go and he will refine his measurements with experience, already we can see that this is miles ahead of what's been posted.

What Jude showed us is how the measurement looks in a properly calibrated professional measurement setup. Plus, as he also mentioned, the angle/insertion of these IEMs will vary between different users and will affect the sound perception, the same way how the depth and the angle of IEM insertion into a coupler can affect FR measurement. At the end of the day, I think FR measurements are there for a reference since it doesn't guarantee that everybody will hear it exactly as they "see" it on the graph. That's why it's always a good idea to get as many data points, including FR captures and actual sound descriptions as others hear it. Then, it's up to you to filter it out, to toss out those which use word salad like "resolving tonality" :p
 
Nov 10, 2017 at 2:33 PM Post #14 of 66

Rob80b

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Posts
2,149
Likes
920
Location
Toronto, Ontario
................... Again, if you have an IE800, do you hear a big drop in level (13 to 15 dBSPL) as the sweep transitions from 1 kHz to 3 kHz? Some may, but I think most will not. Again, I definitely do not.


No drop at all on my end from 1k to 3k but there appeared to be increased energy at around 5k and 7k, which I believe was Sennheiser's goal in preserving detail when competing with external ambient noise.[/QUOTE]
 
Nov 10, 2017 at 2:48 PM Post #15 of 66

Kunlun

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Posts
3,750
Likes
386
What Jude showed us is how the measurement looks in a properly calibrated professional measurement setup. Plus, as he also mentioned, the angle/insertion of these IEMs will vary between different users and will affect the sound perception, the same way how the depth and the angle of IEM insertion into a coupler can affect FR measurement. At the end of the day, I think FR measurements are there for a reference since it doesn't guarantee that everybody will hear it exactly as they "see" it on the graph. That's why it's always a good idea to get as many data points, including FR captures and actual sound descriptions as others hear it. Then, it's up to you to filter it out, to toss out those which use word salad like "resolving tonality" :p

Totally agree!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top