[clarinetman]

Recently I have been ripping my CD's into lossless. Unfortunately, WMP's best lossless formats are WAV and WMA, which aren't especially good to begin with. Of course, I could easily download different software to rip my CD's to FLAC, but to make things worse, my player, a Zen Vision W, doesn't support any of these formats. So then I ask myself, why I don't get another player? But, the invariable catch here is that I'm a student with no job, so I have to rely on tedious odd jobs and of course my weekly allowance of $15. If I don't get a player that supports lossless, then of course, it absolutely defeats the entire purpose of having excellent headphones, since garbage in, garbage out, regardless of how I amp it or how good the phones are.

Then there's the next part, which is that much of the music I like is never released on CD. I'm talking about a lot of electronic music (i.e. dance, trance, hardstyle, jumpstyle, Angerfist). A lot of these artists do what they do because they like to, and don't want profit, and ergo allow people to download their songs for free, generally in mp3 format. Even if the artists do release albums, I'm too poor to buy them, which means I have few tangible albums.

So say I do buy a player that supports lossless formats. From the few players I've seen, many of them A) have a small memory B) don't sound good C) are shoddy in quality D) are 3rd party (D proving A, B, and C). The sad part of all this is that I find it extremely difficult to enjoy music anymore. I can't listen to anything without being reminded that it doesn't sound perfect, which then makes me realize that I wasted a huge amount of hard-earned money on the audio equipment, which ergo sounds bad.

I don't want to make it seem like I'm complaining, perhaps I am only naive. It's just in order to get more experienced advice and thoughts on this, which would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks.

 

[yepyep_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I don't get a player that supports lossless, then of course, it absolutely defeats the entire purpose of having excellent headphones

No, most likely, it doesn't.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Have you actually listened to music ripped at a very high bit rate and then backed the bit rate down a little? Did you notice a tremendous difference? If you didn't, don't worry about it and enjoy what you have.

I know there are plenty of people who swear by lossless FLAC, etc - but not everyone thinks it is the end of the world to be forced to listen to music ripped at 320K.

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Recently I have been ripping my CD's into lossless. Unfortunately, WMP's best lossless formats are WAV and WMA, which aren't especially good to begin with. Of course, I could easily download different software to rip my CD's to FLAC, but to make things worse, my player, a Zen Vision W, doesn't support any of these formats. So then I ask myself, why I don't get another player? But, the invariable catch here is that I'm a student with no job, so I have to rely on tedious odd jobs and of course my weekly allowance of $15. If I don't get a player that supports lossless, then of course, it absolutely defeats the entire purpose of having excellent headphones, since garbage in, garbage out, regardless of how I amp it or how good the phones are. Then there's the next part, which is that much of the music I like is never released on CD. I'm talking about a lot of electronic music (i.e. dance, trance, hardstyle, jumpstyle, Angerfist). A lot of these artists do what they do because they like to, and don't want profit, and ergo allow people to download their songs for free, generally in mp3 format. Even if the artists do release albums, I'm too poor to buy them, which means I have few tangible albums. So say I do buy a player that supports lossless formats. From the few players I've seen, many of them A) have a small memory B) don't sound good C) are shoddy in quality D) are 3rd party (D proving A, B, and C). The sad part of all this is that I find it extremely difficult to enjoy music anymore. I can't listen to anything without being reminded that it doesn't sound perfect, which then makes me realize that I wasted a huge amount of hard-earned money on the audio equipment, which ergo sounds bad. I don't want to make it seem like I'm complaining, perhaps I am only naive. It's just in order to get more experienced advice and thoughts on this, which would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Might wanna remove the bit about downpours of rain, the mods will get on to you about that. I helped you out in your quote.

Now with that out of the way, you should probably look at some lower end cowons or sansas. The cowon U5 and 7 are both pretty good with nice battery life and SQ. The sansa fuze and clip are often praised for their SQ around here, plus they are cheap as chips. (I recently picked up a 2gb fuze for 30$ in the FS section. Yes 2gb is small, see below...)

The 7 is available with 16gb of storage, but that model is quite expensive (IMO). The U5 is available up to 8gb (I have that one) and is pretty well priced for that space.

The clip and fuze are a bit cheaper still. They both supposedly have the same internals audio wise so they both sound the same (going FWIR with that). The important difference is that the fuze has removable storage in the form of a micro SD/SDHC card. You can get a 4gb micro SDHC card for about 8$ + shipping online, 8gb for 16$, and 16gb for 50$. The thing about this is, you can just buy a few of the cheaper 4gb/8gb cards (the 2gb are the same price as the 4gb, no use for them) and keep all of your music on multiple cards. Micro SD cards are incredibly tiny, so don't worry about them taking up too much space.

You can find fuzes in the FS section for anywhere from 30$ up, although your likely to pay more around 40-50 for one. I'd say you best option is one of them (not necessarily a high capacity version either) with some SD cards.

Also, all of the above players support MP3, FLAC, OGG, WMA, and WAV, which are basically all the codecs you need. Although for some reason it doesn't say the U5 supports ogg and flac on the cowon site....

On a slightly different topic, you listened to any of the bonkers compilations?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Why don't you just skip the player and listen directly off the computer?

An iPod was my primary source when I started out, but now it just sits in tbe car, connected to the car stereo. It's loaded with AAC files, but I don't care because my car audio is 100% stock. I decided not to go aftermarket because 80% of my car listening is NPR and the stock system is fine. It's OK for music, too, since driving is of primary importance. When I travel, the little time I spend listening is acceptable with AAC.

I think you should shift your viewpoint. Do your serious listening at home with your lossless files and accept the limitations when you're on the go. I wish it was convenient to take my turntable, SACDs and tube amps everywhere, but I accept that I can't. I don't think that's hurt my enjoyment any.

As for your music, well, all I can suggest is that you broaden your horizons. There's nothing wrong with your tastes, but it's OK to develop new ones. If you want the best recordings, try out jazz and classical. Both genres are diverse and each has subgenres that should appeal. There's not much you can do when an artist only releases compressed music on MP3, but you can also start listening to music that's masterfully recorded with great dynamics. Ask around in the Music Forum if you want to find something new.

 

[Currawong]

It's not impossible to transcode to and from WMA lossless is it?

 

[pdupiano]

Fuze, Clip, or a low end Cowon as konakona states. Or sell some of your headphones for a good source that will last you for a while. My recommendations would be a D2, 16gb + external storage or 8gb fuze + external storage.

"
Then there's the next part, which is that much of the music I like is never released on CD. I'm talking about a lot of electronic music (i.e. dance, trance, hardstyle, jumpstyle, Angerfist). A lot of these artists do what they do because they like to, and don't want profit, and ergo allow people to download their songs for free, generally in mp3 format. Even if the artists do release albums, I'm too poor to buy them, which means I have few tangible albums."
- So you like those artists... how have you heard their music if you 1) can't afford their albums, and 2) if you havent heard them off the mp3's they release?
As far as I'm concerned, if you like them based on the music you've downloaded from them... then continue to do so. Mp3 isn't the end of the world. And if you can't afford their albums then... continue to download.

I realize you're probably venting, but just read through your own post and take a step back. you'll quickly realize that you're making a fuss out of nothing and infact I think the answer is staring you right in the face, you may not like the answer, but its there.

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Might wanna remove the bit about downpours of rain, the mods will get on to you about that. I helped you out in your quote.

xD Thanks! Didn't consider that...



Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif On a slightly different topic, you listened to any of the bonkers compilations?

No. What are they?



Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you like those artists... how have you heard their music if you 1) can't afford their albums, and 2) if you havent heard them off the mp3's they release?

I don't get what you're saying. At all.

 

[KONAKONA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif xD Thanks! Didn't consider that... No. What are they? I don't get what you're saying. At all.

Originally a happy hardcore compilation but nowdays the stuff is more trancecore and gabber... in any case it's good stuff. I bought volumes 12, 13, and 14 a week or so and I got 15 in the mail. If you can only get one, get 15, because it's awesome sauce.

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do your serious listening at home with your lossless files and accept the limitations when you're on the go. I wish it was convenient to take my turntable, SACDs and tube amps everywhere, but I accept that I can't. I don't think that's hurt my enjoyment any.

Thats great advice. Thank you.

 

[MASantos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Recently I have been ripping my CD's into lossless. Unfortunately, WMP's best lossless formats are WAV and WMA, which aren't especially good to begin with. Thanks.

What do you mean with WAV not being good? It's the actual information written on the cd, with no compression. It's the same as AIFF (which is apple's version of wav) and the only downside is that it is not compressed, so a cd has 600mb of written information the rip will have exactly the same information and size. The good thing about FLAC or WV (wavpack) is that they compress the music with no loss of information (in theory). WV does compress more than FLAC but AFAIK there are no portable players that suport it.

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASantos /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you mean with WAV not being good?

Perhaps when it was explained to me I misunderstood (forgive my ignorance). I was told that WAV isn't particularly good because WMP rips it to 8-bit but CD quality is 16-bit (perhaps it's 24-bit, I can't remember).

 

[nhancakes]

For me 320 kbs sounds pretty damn good, and i'm willing to bet you wouldn't always be able to tell the difference between 320mp3 and FLAC. And it's certainly not going to be enough to make you not enjoy listening to the music you do now. In the end good music is good music. I can listen to a crackly Nat King Cole record and get as much if not even more satisfaction than listening to a lossless remaster. maybe think a lil bit less about your gear and a lil bit more about why you started buying audio equipment in the first place- the music.

 

[billybob_jcv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhancakes /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me 320 kbs sounds pretty damn good, and i'm willing to bet you wouldn't always be able to tell the difference between 320mp3 and FLAC. And it's certainly not going to be enough to make you not enjoy listening to the music you do now. In the end good music is good music. I can listen to a crackly Nat King Cole record and get as much if not even more satisfaction than listening to a lossless remaster. maybe think a lil bit less about your gear and a lil bit more about why you started buying audio equipment in the first place- the music.

+1!!!

This is why IMHO the uber-fi crowd actually does more harm than good to the audio world. I'm all for tech and gadgets, but when we start arguing about that last 0.01% of fidelity and treating it as if it is not worth listening without it, then we've lost our way. There is a huge difference between an AM radio in a 1967 Mustang and an SACD in a $20,000 home audio system. But there is not a "huge" difference between lossless FLAC and 320K mp3. There, I said it!

So - the next time we all turn-on our maximum hyperbole filter - stop - and think of what we're doing to the next generation!!!

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob_jcv /img/forum/go_quote.gif But there is not a "huge" difference between lossless FLAC and 320K mp3. There, I said it!

There's a huge difference to me. One represents a CD I may desire to rip again some time down the line (which I will then have to find, or keep about my person), and the other represents the pinnacle of digital music reproduction.

I got tired of moving books full of cds years ago. The question to me is this: "What would you rather compromise? Potential sound quality or storage space / ease of use?"

That answer is an absolute no-brainer, to my ears. Storage space is comparatively cheap, and an EAC/CDPanaoia lossless rip of a CD is as good as that CD will ever be.

Archival FLACs can easily be converted to ALAC, MP3, anything you please. Rip 'em lossless -- for your future.