[slinger1182]

I have been an owner of an HD580 for the past 5 years as a poor graduate student and I loved it. Now that they have been confiscated by my dad and I have a nice paying job, I am looking for a headphone and a complete setup that I can build around those headphones over the next year or so. So I am looking for headphone recommendations and amp/DAC recommendations. Bear in mind, I am building a rig with my computer as a source as that is the most convenient for me.

Things I loved about my Senn were its fluid midrange, warmth and relatively big soundstage. I ran it through a low-fi to mid-fi amp which did nothing more than bring the Senn to acceptable listening gain off my on-board soundcard and I still loved them. Things I would like in my newer headphone in adddition to the stuff I liked in my Senns are better PRaT (perhaps more bass but I am not sure about this since I found the 580 to be more than adequate but slow), definitely more forwardness and at least as big a soundstage & instrument separation and more resolution at the higher end.

Like I said earlier that I am looking to building a rig around this headphone over the next year or two so looking for amp/DAC recommendations too. I can spend about a $1000 right now. So if the recommendations can get all three within the price right now for a mid to hi-fi listening rig, nothing like it. Otherwise, I will just see how it goes.

Nowadays I am listening to a lot post-rock like Sigur Ros, Mogwai, GY!BE, and Explosions in the Sky. To those of you who are unfamiliar with the bands, the music is very dense so instrument separation and soundstaging is highly imperative. I also listen to a lot of rock, blues and some jazz. Basically this: silverblade23’s Music Profile – Users at Last.fm

PS: I did a little a research of my own and right now I am thinking of Denon D2000 or 5000 and getting either the Micro DAC and Amp from Headroom with the former or Corda Cantate.2 with the latter. Do those choices seem a right fit for me?

 

[elnero]

I'm tempted to recommend the Grado RS-1's because they meet much of your criteria. They won't have as big of a soundstage but to me I always preferred the RS-1's closer presentation better than that of the Senn's because it seems more coherent to me but that's personal preference.

The RS-1's can be a bit temperamental though so finding a system that works well for you're preferences can sometimes be a bit of a chore but the payoff can be brilliant.

One thing I notice in your signature is you're apparently using mp3's at home, I'd recommend using lossless if possible. When you start getting into the mid to higher end source really starts becoming a factor, after all, you're system can't reproduce what isn't there.

 

[slinger1182]

I had heard an SR-225 some time before and while I liked it's aggression, I preferred my 580s. If the RS-1 is the same signature but everything finer, I would prefer not having a Grado. Yes, I want that soundstage because I want that "out of head" experience. The 225 always reminded me that I was listening to a headphone. While my 580 did that most times too (low-fi source and amp), on a few recordings it would bloom big and made me tingle. I want that! Nay! I NEED that.

Haha! I have not updated my signature in a long while! (I haven't been to Head-Fi in a long while either. I had mp3s because I used to work off my laptop in grad school and it was a pain lugging around the external HDD to and fro from office everyday. I always had FLACs in my external HDD and quite honestly, I did not hear any difference between a high bit-rate mp3 off my low-fi setup(>225 kbps) and a FLAC then. Now, I run FLACs off my computer.

 

[elnero]

I've not heard the SR225's so I can't comment on how close their signature is to the RS-1's but if it's an out of your head stage you're after the Grado's will probably not be you're cup of tea.

If in general you liked the Senn's you might be best off building a better system based around them. While the Senn's are not on the top of my list for preference I can say they do scale well and show improvements in the area's you're looking for when paired with an amp that can drive them and a decent source.

 

[slinger1182]

Well, there are a few things that I would like in my new headphone that weren't there in the 580. Better PRaT, faster attack, more sparkle. I don't have any doubt that RS-1s will satisfy me like 580s did, but just leave me wanting for a bit more. So, if I am dropping 1k right now and maybe more later, might as well try to get it all now.

The Denons seem to fit my wants. Any others?

 

[elnero]

In what ways do the Denon's fit your wants? I've not heard them myself but I've read quite a bit of conflicting things about them. Being closed headphones how would the stage compare to that of the Senn's and Grado's for that matter?

As I said before, in my experience most if not all your wants could be addressed to some degree by properly amping and giving the Senns a good source. I think PRaT and attack will always be better on the Grado's, that's just their nature. In the end much of building a decent setup is balancing trade-offs and preferences, for instance, for myself a large deep soundstage is lower on my list of priorities, not because I don't want it but mostly because I find when headphones try to emulate a speaker-like presentation it ends up falling short. I'd rather have a smaller, more coherent intimate onstage presentation than a large deep stage that has kind of U shape, blob like effect.

 

[Agnostic]

You're asking for a different direction so there you go:
Stax Lambda

They have fantastic speed, loads of detail and air, nicely balanced sound sig, very good soundstage. The only weakness they have imo is on vocals, mainly female which can end up sounding a tad harsh and thin (I like my vocals on the warm side). I love them for post-rock though.

Hook up a tripath chip based T-amp to your computer (load of those around on ebay) and enjoy. You'll be amazed how much faster and more detailed they are than the 580.

 

[scompton]

x2 on a vintage Stax system. I listen to an SR-Gamma. It has the deepest bass of any of my headphones, but the bass doesn't overwhelm the mids.

 

[Tiemen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinger1182 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, there are a few things that I would like in my new headphone that weren't there in the 580. Better PRaT, faster attack, more sparkle. I don't have any doubt that RS-1s will satisfy me like 580s did, but just leave me wanting for a bit more. So, if I am dropping 1k right now and maybe more later, might as well try to get it all now. The Denons seem to fit my wants. Any others?

The sound signature of the D2000 is a lot like the HD580.
If you want more PRaT and faster attack, then forget the Denon. They have a bit more sparkle in the highs, but to my ears their treble sounded harsh.
And the bass of the HD580 is more detailed.

 

[tomb]

More prat, greater sparkle, faster attack, treble that's not harsh, deep bass ... etc., etc. All these things are solved with the Senns themselves by one thing: a great amp.

You like the basic signature of the Senns, except for those things you mentioned. A great amp will give you all of those - the Senns are capable of it and more. However, a great amp doesn't mean the latest Little Dot Mark-whatever. Faster attack usually means a great voltage swing with a high slew rate. This can be accomplished with a deep Class A discrete output buffer or some of the finer OTL tube amps. Many of the desktop-style amps in the DIY section will fit the bill. An Earmax Pro might be a good choice, too.

 

[slinger1182]

elnero: Thanks for your replies. All the reviews I read on here implied that the Denons have more PRaT and more sparkle than the Senns while having comparable soundstaging. But tiemen and tomb have suggested exactly as what you have so I might have interpreted the reviews wrong. So your RS-1 suggestion is certainly I have to think about.

Agnostic and scompton: I would love to have electrostats but wouldn't the electrostats be outside my budget right now? I thought the Stax Lambda headphones themselves were in the range of 1.5k-2k$. I mean all I have right now is just my computer.

tomb: I am not much of a DIYer and do not have much time for it either. Which amps would you recommend?

Thanks for all your replies! I really appreciate it.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinger1182 /img/forum/go_quote.gif elnero: Thanks for your replies. All the reviews I read on here implied that the Denons have more PRaT and more sparkle than the Senns while having comparable soundstaging. But tiemen and tomb have suggested exactly as what you have so I might have interpreted the reviews wrong. So your RS-1 suggestion is certainly I have to think about. Agnostic and scompton: I would love to have electrostats but wouldn't the electrostats be outside my budget right now? I thought the Stax Lambda headphones themselves were in the range of 1.5k-2k$. I mean all I have right now is just my computer. tomb: I am not much of a DIYer and do not have much time for it either. Which amps would you recommend? Thanks for all your replies! I really appreciate it.

Well, I have to be careful here, because I'm biased toward another amp.

However, to be fully objective ... sparkle and fast attack are probably more the speciality of discrete semiconductors. So, the PPAV2, M3, or the B22. The B22 is probably in a class by itself these days and there are several people who build them, I believe: MisterX, Thrice, and Jeff Rossel has kits on GlassJarAudio.com. The downside is that it will set you back about $1000. The PPAV2 is very sparkly with a Senn from FallenAngel's reports and I trust his judgment. Those show up from time to time in the For Sale section and can probably be had for $300 - $500. Be careful that you get the V2, though, otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of opamps for an output stage and that's not enough to get you what you want.

The right tube amp can do the same thing, but it's a little more difficult to predict - the tendency is toward warmth and soundstage, not necessarily fast attack and sparkle - but there are tubes/amps that can do that easily. I mentioned the EarMax Pro. I'm sure there are others. For DIY tube amps, the possibilities are numerous.

 

[scompton]

My Stax set up was under $250. $15 for a vintage amp from Goodwill, $75 for an SRD-7 transformer that hooks up to the speaker outs from an amp, and $125 for the SR-Gamma. Normal bias Lamdas go for $250-300 with an adapter. I also have an SR-5 that cost me $75, and an SR-3 that cost $100 with an adapter. All of these are 20 years old or more but still work without a problem.

The lowest end, full sized, new one is $600 from Audio Cubes 2 It comes with it's own amp, and you can use the computer as source.

 

[slinger1182]

Scompton, I really would like to audition any electrostat setup before pulling the trigger on a set. Do you know of any place where I could do it in the D.C. area? I live in Baltimore.

 

[scompton]

I know of a place in McLean, VA, Deja Vu audio. I'm not sure of any dealers in MD. What we need is a meet. There's a thread going on but everyone is saying they'd like one but no one is actually scheduling one.