[MrYaldi]

I can say this. Having more current for the Timeless doesn't necessarily make them sound "better" but will drive them to their full potential will make them drive to what was intended. Whether you like that sound better or not is subjective. So basically, driving them to their full potential will require some current to do.

Running them directly from a phone or PC/MAC will most likely not do this. But I would argue that some people will find this sound pleasing to them. The bass will be boomier (less textured), and the sound becomes more relaxed, though you most likely WILL hear those sibilant issues talked about earlier in the treble area more often. There will be a certain amount of "grainy(ness)" introduced to the overall sound when not driven properly. Your ears may or may not hear this so YMMV.

You may or may not. I personally don't find the Timeless and Sundara as similar as other folks have mentioned other than that planar thing (tight fast transients, clarity). But you can pretty much get that generic similarity from any planar of quality. That being said they are best driven with more current, but you may find the sound pleasing straight out of your Macbook, or Phone (see above). With less current, the bass is boomier, mids are a bit thinner and recessed (the V signature more pronounced), and the highs are less resolving making them sometimes a bit harsh (not often though). Take that with a grain of salt as those changes are more subtle than I am making them sound.

Overall if you like the sound signature that the Timeless are, then you will probably love them because they ARE very good for the price. The same will go for the Sundara. I would suggest that you try and find a way to audition the Sundara before you commit to them. I landed on the Deva because they are similar to the Sundara in sound but are also capable of hi-res bluetooth with just a cable swap.

The Timeless are worth the $200 asking price for sure. Keep in mind these are a planar but are tuned more like a consumer IEM rather than audiophile tuning. Nothing wrong with either, but they are different targets in their tuning. These are not neutral and aren't meant for critical/analytical listening, but on the other hand, they have a super fun tuning. They are very pleasing listen (and non-fatiguing overall unless overexaggerated bass is fatiguing to your ears)!

As for EQ, I can't answer that question because I am not in the Apple ecosystem (windows/android for me). But doing a google search will most likely help you out there. Personally Peace for windows is a super powerful (but high learning curve) EQ. This can't be used on Mac though because it lacks the Equalizer APO needed to run it. For android I find Neutron player the best in the business (meant for audiophiles). It is bit-perfect (bypassing the android limitations), and when needed, has one of the best EQ apps that I have seen.

Thankyou for the thoughtful response on all fronts.

One of the things I like about the latest MacBook Pro is the headphone Jack. It supples 1.25v up to 150ohms and has support of 3v for 150 to 1k ohm. I haven’t compared but others have claimed their chord mojo was a fairly minor improvement over direct input which is quite impressive really.

Cheers.

 

[samandhi]

Thankyou for the thoughtful response on all fronts.

One of the things I like about the latest MacBook Pro is the headphone Jack. It supples 1.25v up to 150ohms and has support of 3v for 150 to 1k ohm. I haven’t compared but others have claimed their chord mojo was a fairly minor improvement over direct input which is quite impressive really.

Cheers.

You are welcome! I only hope the information is helpful to you?!

I haven't used the newest MacBook Pro, but keep in mind with planars, it is not the power output that it needs to drive them properly, but current. It DOES sound like it could drive them properly but since headphone/IEM makers (especially planars) don't release the amp requirements I just can't say for sure. Really, only planars need that information.

For instance, I drive my timeless on my iBasso DX300 on high gain from 4.4 balanced output. It is rated at 7.1vrms 2amps which is 1240mW @32Ohms and 168Mw @300Ohms (crazy good for mobile and even some desktop solutions). I tend to listen at around 60-80dB. To achieve this, I have to have my volume at 40% of 100%. Now, pure volume is not totally indicative of being driven properly, but it does tell you that it takes more current than other IEMs with the same resistance and effiency rating. Because at 14.8Ohm and 104 effiency rating, at 40% volume with that kind of power from the amp, the Timeless should be SUPER loud and they are not.

Edit: Yes that IS impressive indeed. I am glad Apple is starting to pay attention to sound quality again. It's been a long time since they seemed to care about quality over convenience IMO.

 

[MrYaldi]

Agreed. I had the good fortune of sampling the airpod max headphones they released and while they are in no way suitable for critical listening or follow the Harmon curve, they were fun and the build materials were exceptional. It felt like the headphone version of the original iPods. Solid, premium and built with thought.

I’m sure in a year or two they’ll release a sequel which will likely become the de facto #1 wireless solution for audiophiles now that they are officially implementing alac in their earphones starting with the next airpod pros.

 

[samandhi]

Agreed. I had the good fortune of sampling the airpod max headphones they released and while they are in no way suitable for critical listening or follow the Harmon curve, they were fun and the build materials were exceptional. It felt like the headphone version of the original iPods. Solid, premium and built with thought.

I’m sure in a year or two they’ll release a sequel which will likely become the de facto #1 wireless solution for audiophiles now that they are officially implementing alac in their earphones starting with the next airpod pros.

Oh, don't get me wrong, they have always made really solid products. They just have seemed to cater to the masses (which could care less about the quality of sound as long as it thumps and is loud af and looks really stylish ). But that is not entirely their fault since heaphone makers have purposely mistuned their products to accentuate and amplify the distortion and overemphasized sounds that lower quality mp3s give. This has been what the masses wanted to hear until recently where good quality reproduction has started to creep back into normal levels. The line between "consumer" and "audiophile" sounds is getting thinner, slowly but surely.

This is one reason I love these Timeless. They are tuned for the masses, but still have the planar sound in it. I have enough critical listening IEMs/headphones/earbuds but wanted something really fun for a change, but with the "audiophile" touch to it (not to sound snooty about it hehe). Where that is concerned, I think that both audiophiles and consumer target seekers will both be happy with these, and 7Hz have succeeded.

If you had the quality and production levels of an apple product with the sound of something like Hifiman (for instance), you would have one of the best products available IMHO.

They might be if Apple would stop being so closed. People like me (for instance) hate all things Apple. Not because I think they suck. I rather think they are good, but because you have to buy in 100% to their ecosystem to make everything work together is what sucks. I like to have a lot of choice, and with other systems, I can mix and match things where I cannot with Apple. So, IMO I think this is what holds Apple back from being even bigger than what they could be.

A perfect example is the newest version of IOS. It implemented WPA3 for wifi, but is NOT backwards compatible with anything else. So my shiny new DX300 ($1200) will not connect to it because it doesn't use WPA3 (nor does anything else I own at the moment). The only current way around this is to connect via bluetooth to the phone. This wouldn't be that bad except when trying to play something like a 24/96 song. There is not enough bandwidth with BT to do this (making this a bad solution at best for most). I don't know about you, but I don't want to spend all that money to upgrade everything I own just to connect to the newest IOS. I know this is extreme but was just giving an example..

But I do hope that you are right, and I can start using Apple products again.

 

[josh0001]

Hi guys,

I recently purchased a Moondrop S8, my first chi-fi earphone, and I’m delighted with it as my recent review suggests. I’m now interested in other Chinese specialty makers, and recently became acquainted with the 7Hz i99. Since there isn’t a thread for this brand, I thought I would create one to enhance exposure as well as invite others to comment who have been intrigued by 7Hz’s two offerings.

I’m thinking strongly about blind buying an i99 (Linsoul has it in stock!) and if I do, I’ll write a review and post it in the Head Gear section.

My interest was sparked by BGGAR’s YouTube unboxing and follow up thoughts. It appears to be very well built with a fun tuning and sells for $480.



More info at this link ...

Update 5/26/20:

The black pair I ordered did not have the textured look as the above picture shows, rather, a shiny look. Still gorgeous, but I wanted to alert anyone interested. I will post pictures soon along with my initial observations ...

I know th 7hz timeless are highly regarded for they're price class but they seam really uncofturble and big. These share the disk shape. Is the shape due to the dimension of the driver, the time of driver or just an estetical choice?

 

[MrYaldi]

Oh, don't get me wrong, they have always made really solid products. They just have seemed to cater to the masses (which could care less about the quality of sound as long as it thumps and is loud af and looks really stylish ). But that is not entirely their fault since heaphone makers have purposely mistuned their products to accentuate and amplify the distortion and overemphasized sounds that lower quality mp3s give. This has been what the masses wanted to hear until recently where good quality reproduction has started to creep back into normal levels. The line between "consumer" and "audiophile" sounds is getting thinner, slowly but surely.

This is one reason I love these Timeless. They are tuned for the masses, but still have the planar sound in it. I have enough critical listening IEMs/headphones/earbuds but wanted something really fun for a change, but with the "audiophile" touch to it (not to sound snooty about it hehe). Where that is concerned, I think that both audiophiles and consumer target seekers will both be happy with these, and 7Hz have succeeded.

If you had the quality and production levels of an apple product with the sound of something like Hifiman (for instance), you would have one of the best products available IMHO.

They might be if Apple would stop being so closed. People like me (for instance) hate all things Apple. Not because I think they suck. I rather think they are good, but because you have to buy in 100% to their ecosystem to make everything work together is what sucks. I like to have a lot of choice, and with other systems, I can mix and match things where I cannot with Apple. So, IMO I think this is what holds Apple back from being even bigger than what they could be.

A perfect example is the newest version of IOS. It implemented WPA3 for wifi, but is NOT backwards compatible with anything else. So my shiny new DX300 ($1200) will not connect to it because it doesn't use WPA3 (nor does anything else I own at the moment). The only current way around this is to connect via bluetooth to the phone. This wouldn't be that bad except when trying to play something like a 24/96 song. There is not enough bandwidth with BT to do this (making this a bad solution at best for most). I don't know about you, but I don't want to spend all that money to upgrade everything I own just to connect to the newest IOS. I know this is extreme but was just giving an example..

But I do hope that you are right, and I can start using Apple products again.

Well hopefully they go down the Sony route re: Ldac and allow other manufacturers to use Alac with a licensing fee. I’m sure it makes a lot of money for Sony to give Shure/technics and others use of ldac. Hopefully Apple sees it that way too because as you say, if you’re wanting to maximise your listening experience, it makes no sense yet to go wireless with apple products (aac is just “fine” to my ear and somewhat veiled like most compression options.)

 

[kadinh]

they seam really uncofturble and big

they are not uncomfortable at all. i could wear them all day without feeling them. the disc doesnt touch any part of your ear.

 

[BobSmith8901]

You are welcome! I only hope the information is helpful to you?!

I haven't used the newest MacBook Pro, but keep in mind with planars, it is not the power output that it needs to drive them properly, but current. It DOES sound like it could drive them properly but since headphone/IEM makers (especially planars) don't release the amp requirements I just can't say for sure. Really, only planars need that information.

For instance, I drive my timeless on my iBasso DX300 on high gain from 4.4 balanced output. It is rated at 7.1vrms 2amps which is 1240mW @32Ohms and 168Mw @300Ohms (crazy good for mobile and even some desktop solutions). I tend to listen at around 60-80dB. To achieve this, I have to have my volume at 40% of 100%. Now, pure volume is not totally indicative of being driven properly, but it does tell you that it takes more current than other IEMs with the same resistance and effiency rating. Because at 14.8Ohm and 104 effiency rating, at 40% volume with that kind of power from the amp, the Timeless should be SUPER loud and they are not.

Edit: Yes that IS impressive indeed. I am glad Apple is starting to pay attention to sound quality again. It's been a long time since they seemed to care about quality over convenience IMO.

Is there an easy calculation for Amps?

I'm trying to figure out the Amp rating for my Shanling M6 Pro 21 which is rated at 760mW @32Ohms in balanced mode at the highest gain setting. It's also listed as 4.93V@32 Ohm (760mW). Not sure how to do that calculation for Amps.

 

[samandhi]

I know th 7hz timeless are highly regarded for they're price class but they seam really uncofturble and big. These share the disk shape. Is the shape due to the dimension of the driver, the time of driver or just an estetical choice?

In all honesty they are more comfortable than you can imagine until you have tried them. Obviously everyone's ears are different so that may or not be true so YMMV. But is seems that in this entire thread I haven't really seen anyone complain about comfort levels. I HAVE seen some having to tip roll to get better seal though.

The disk is not to accomdate the driver, it is aesthetic only as can be seen in the pictures below. The lip you see (that is not very thick) on the back is the round disk you see when looking at the back:

Spoiler

Well hopefully they go down the Sony route re: Ldac and allow other manufacturers to use Alac with a licensing fee. I’m sure it makes a lot of money for Sony to give Shure/technics and others use of ldac. Hopefully Apple sees it that way too because as you say, if you’re wanting to maximise your listening experience, it makes no sense yet to go wireless with apple products (aac is just “fine” to my ear and somewhat veiled like most compression options.)

That is one of the reasons I went with the Deva rather than the Sundaras from Hifiman. It uses the LDAC (and even the newer LHDC) codec and I can honestly say they sound like a bit of heaven on my ears. I think you are right though because if you look at the numbers for the codecs, on paper SBC is a better codec than AAC. But because Apple has worked so hard to optimize it, it sounds much much better than standard SBC (sometimes even rivaling AptX).

But we all know that if Sony backs something it will most likely work in the end. Look at the past wars they have been involved in (and won). VHS vs. Betamax, mp3 vs. wma+ (and others such as .ogg, etc...), SACD vs. DVD-Audio, BlueRay vs. HD DVD and now LDAC vs. the rest. Not that I am a fanboy at all, but maybe all these big companies (Samsung, Apple, Microsoft) need to be trying to emulate someone like Sony rather than each other... LOL

Apple is so resistant to change that it sometimes hurts them, but the longer Steve Jobs is gone, the more things are changing (for the good in some ways)IMO.

 

[samandhi]

Is there an easy calculation for Amps?

I'm trying to figure out the Amp rating for my Shanling M6 Pro 21 which is rated at 760mW @32Ohms in balanced mode at the highest gain setting. It's also listed as 4.93V@32 Ohm (760mW). Not sure how to do that calculation for Amps.

Calculator

So your M6Pro will ouput 0.1531amps or 153.06milliamps.

Edit: but I don't think that is right because doing the math on that calculator, I only get .169 amps for my DX300. Maybe that is the sustained draw and not the peak?? Wonder if it has to be figured using the battery power. Since the DX300 has 2 batteries the one used for the amp might be why the amperage is high for a mobile device.

 

[MrYaldi]

In all honesty they are more comfortable than you can imagine until you have tried them. Obviously everyone's ears are different so that may or not be true so YMMV. But is seems that in this entire thread I haven't really seen anyone complain about comfort levels. I HAVE seen some having to tip roll to get better seal though.

The disk is not to accomdate the driver, it is aesthetic only as can be seen in the pictures below. The lip you see (that is not very thick) on the back is the round disk you see when looking at the back:

Spoiler

That is one of the reasons I went with the Deva rather than the Sundaras from Hifiman. It uses the LDAC (and even the newer LHDC) codec and I can honestly say they sound like a bit of heaven on my ears. I think you are right though because if you look at the numbers for the codecs, on paper SBC is a better codec than AAC. But because Apple has worked so hard to optimize it, it sounds much much better than standard SBC (sometimes even rivaling AptX).

But we all know that if Sony backs something it will most likely work in the end. Look at the past wars they have been involved in (and won). VHS vs. Betamax, mp3 vs. wma+ (and others such as .ogg, etc...), SACD vs. DVD-Audio, BlueRay vs. HD DVD and now LDAC vs. the rest. Not that I am a fanboy at all, but maybe all these big companies (Samsung, Apple, Microsoft) need to be trying to emulate someone like Sony rather than each other... LOL

Apple is so resistant to change that it sometimes hurts them, but the longer Steve Jobs is gone, the more things are changing (for the good in some ways)IMO.

Enjoying your comments.

Yeah I think things are looking up re: Apple. The battery life on the new MBP and the production of iPhone Mini 12/13 as two examples of having a good understanding of consumer dissatisfaction at technological “glass cannons” like Huawei and the phablet culture almost nobody actually asked for.

Ldac is the only codec I can abide since it’s virtually indiscernible from flac. And I don’t mind how snobby that makes me sound!

On topic, do you have a recommended burn in time for the 7hz?

 

[samandhi]

Yep it is the battery draw that it gets it from as seen here. (look at the battery amperage) It might be more difficult figuring on a device that shares analog with digital battery since it has to sustain power while also outputting those amps to the headphone jack.. This makes 2 amps for the DX a true measurement as it doesn't use the android OS system on that battery at all.

 

[samandhi]

In all honesty they are more comfortable than you can imagine until you have tried them. Obviously everyone's ears are different so that may or not be true so YMMV. But is seems that in this entire thread I haven't really seen anyone complain about comfort levels. I HAVE seen some having to tip roll to get better seal though.

Enjoying your comments.

Yeah I think things are looking up re: Apple. The battery life on the new MBP and the production of iPhone Mini 12/13 as two examples of having a good understanding of consumer dissatisfaction at technological “glass cannons” like Huawei and the phablet culture almost nobody actually asked for.

Ldac is the only codec I can abide since it’s virtually indiscernible from flac. And I don’t mind how snobby that makes me sound!

On topic, do you have a recommended burn in time for the 7hz?

Thanks! Enjoying yours also.

Even Apple puts out turds (are my thoughts) haha. I also think the phablet thing has gotten out of hand, but hey it did give us folding glass...

I like AptX and AptX HD, but generally I am with you in that LDAC is a really well-done codec for BT (if you have to live with BT). I don't think it makes you sound snobby at all. The better headphones/IEMs you have the easier it is to nitpick sound anomalies, and if you paid high dollar for a product for that very reason, you shouldn't have a bottleneck of poor bandwidth hamper what would otherwise be a great experience. My 2¢!

Whether you believe in burn-in or not is another story here, but either way you at least need some brain burn-in, if not actual burn-in. I can't say I have tested that on these because I haven't taken them out of ears long enough to do the whole "listen before burn-in, then after burn-in" thing... To my brain, at the very least, they have gotten much better over time. How's that for staying neutral? LOL

 

[MrYaldi]

Thanks! Enjoying yours also.

Even Apple puts out turds (are my thoughts) haha. I also think the phablet thing has gotten out of hand, but hey it did give us folding glass...

I like AptX and AptX HD, but generally I am with you in that LDAC is a really well-done codec for BT (if you have to live with BT). I don't think it makes you sound snobby at all. The better headphones/IEMs you have the easier it is to nitpick sound anomalies, and if you paid high dollar for a product for that very reason, you shouldn't have a bottleneck of poor bandwidth hamper what would otherwise be a great experience. My 2¢!

Whether you believe in burn-in or not is another story here, but either way you at least need some brain burn-in, if not actual burn-in. I can't say I have tested that on these because I haven't taken them out of ears long enough to do the whole "listen before burn-in, then after burn-in" thing... To my brain, at the very least, they have gotten much better over time. How's that for staying neutral? LOL

Haha great to know! Looking forward to tomorrow already. Cheers

 

[BobSmith8901]

Calculator

So your M6Pro will ouput 0.1531amps or 153.06milliamps.

Edit: but I don't think that is right because doing the math on that calculator, I only get .169 amps for my DX300. Maybe that is the sustained draw and not the peak?? Wonder if it has to be figured using the battery power. Since the DX300 has 2 batteries the one used for the amp might be why the amperage is high for a mobile device.

Yep it is the battery draw that it gets it from as seen here. (look at the battery amperage) It might be more difficult figuring on a device that shares analog with digital battery since it has to sustain power while also outputting those amps to the headphone jack.. This makes 2 amps for the DX a true measurement as it doesn't use the android OS system on that battery at all.

Thanks, I had gotten that .153 number from the online calculators but it didn't seem right to me either. I'll dig a little deeper into mine and see what I can come up with. Just anecdotally the Shanling runs the Timeless pretty well on high gain although when I run it through my Schiit Magni2U it's obviously got more headroom and has a somewhat fuller sound (1.5W @32 Ohms on the Magni vs. 760mW @ 32 on the Shanling); but still darn good sound out of the Pro 21.