777ES versus Rega Jupiter 2000

[Vka]

Okay, I have a friend who is very interested in getting a top of the line red book player.
In the one corner: Sony 777ES retails $3500, 55lb Stereophile class A+ street price = $1500

In the other corner: Rega Jupiter 2000 retails for $1895 Stereophile class B, street price = $1250

I am biased towards the 777Es of course since I own the SCD-1 myself. But I have not heard the Jupiter 2000.

What I would LOVE to know is how they compare in terms of RED-BOOK playback, NOT sacd playback since then 777ES would have an advantage.
Any ideas?
Thanks!

 

[dngl]

That's a tough question 'cause stereophile grades SACD players based on their SACD playback... He could buy both with an Amex Blue card and return one of them.

I checked out Stereophile's most recent recommended components list and they gushed over the 777es but had a few criticisms of the rega. I'd say 777es 'cause you could always have Dan Wright upgrade it.

 

[markl]

There's already a newer and "better" version of the 777 called the XA777ES. The newer DACs, multichannel. It just came out and there's already some advance reports on audio asylum.

markl

 

[squirt]

The new Sony SCD-XA777ES is currently retailing for about $3000.00. I'm seriously considering getting it to replace my aging XA20ES. I'm also considering the Jupiter but its more likely i'll go with the 777...

its really too bad that Steriophile only rates SACD performance of SACD players being that red books CDs are still very dominant and i would bet just about everybody who buys an SACD player listens to mostly red book CDs with them...it may be worth the effort to try to lobby Stereophile to include red book performance of SACD players

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

its really too bad that Steriophile only rates SACD performance of SACD players being that red books CDs are still very dominant and i would bet just about everybody who buys an SACD player listens to mostly red book CDs with them...it may be worth the effort to try to lobby Stereophile to include red book performance of SACD players

Here are some comments from Jonathan Scull's review of the 333ES concerning Redbook playback:

"...the CD section of the '333 was very kind to 16-bit/44.1kHz recordings"

"[St. Germain's "Land of..."] has a great organ opening, very full and enjoyable on the '333, engagin, attractive, nicely transparent..."

"...CD playback wasn't the best these snobby ears have heard, but it was plenty enjoyable. In general, I found the '333 fairly open and rhythmic on 16/44.1, slightly tipped-up in the uppter mids, and a little soft on the very top, with a really engaging midrange that forgave all other sins."

 

[DanG]

Quote:

CD playback wasn't the best these snobby ears have heard, but it was plenty enjoyable

Mac, I take the final quote truly to betray that the reviewer does not think of the redbook playback of the 333 to be worthy of an A-class (or perhaps even B-class) rating. When reading an advertisment-driven magazine like Stereophile, one has to be on the lookout for slight hints that the reviewer isn't overly impressed with a product.

 

[squirt]

MacDEF my meaning was about Stereophile in giving their "grades" on SACD players grades them according to the players SACD performance. I personally would like to see them start a double grade system for SACD/DVD-A players such as the Sony SACD-1 is class A+ in SACD playback and class B in redbook playback as an example so people considering getting a SACD player (or DVD-A player) can get a better idea about the players capability in both formats...

 

[markl]

I would put the SCD-333 up against any $400 (the 333's current street price) CD player for Redbook playback. It will win hands down. Does it compete with $1200 players (unit's original price)? IMHO, it's about average at that price point, which is still pretty damn good. In my review, I noted some definite reservations about the 333 in CD mode. There are better choices if you are only interested in CDs, I wouldn't deny that.

Fortuately, you can easily have your unit mod-ed to improve analog performance (I've also added a new clock to enhance digital). My unit with mods will cost me $950 total. This will provide me with a unit that has both world-class digital AND analog sections.

Will it equal the un-mod-ed 777 (original price $3500)? I wish I had a way to compare!

markl

 

[DarkAngel]

Markl seems to have a good/flexible approach, if you have large CD collection like me you can buy one of the new cheaper Sony SACD players and have it modded from someone like Dan Wright/Modwright. Also if SACD player has digital output you can use outboard DAC to improve CD sound.

For now the best CD players are still superior for CD playback to SACD/CD combo players. Modding is one way to level the playing field, not to mention there are very few SACD titles available and they are expensive.

If I was buying a Sony SACD, I would do what Markl did and get
333 or 9000 modded and save lots of money......I think they would equal/surpass the sound of the much more expensive
777, although I have not heard them compared......have not heard the Rega.

Markl
Did you use Dan Wright? How long was your turn around time?

 

[markl]

Hi DarkAngel,
Dan has about a 2-week turn around right now, so I'm biting my nails in anticipation. See this thread for details:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...&threadid=2140

markl

 

[DarkAngel]

Markl
Yes Dan Wright has very good rep and has been modding units for some time now, and the recent Stereophile mention was for his mod of the Perpetual P3 Dac I believe, had them drooling.

If anyone is interested go here:

http://www.modwright.com/products.htm

BTW, I know the price of the mods cost as much as the Sony 333
itself, but thats the price you must pay to swing with the big monkeys!

 

[Vka]

If I remember reading it correctly, the CD transport in 777ES and SCD-1 alone via OEM costs $1800. In other words, Sony was willing to lose money to get these 1st generations players out to the market. Who knows how much the SCD-1 or 777ES would have costs if Classe, Mark Levinson, Linn, Burmester or other high ends companies put their name brand on these players.

Anyway, I think 777ES has a much superior CD transport than the Jupiter. Afterall, the transport alone costs about the same as a new Jupiter and the build is impeccable weighing at 55lb. If that is the case, I rather get 777ES knowing that I can get a high quality DAC for it later that should blow Jupiter out of the water easily.
In fact, this was the sole reason I got the SCD-1 over other more expensive redbook CDPs like wadia, accuphase, SA-1, and etc. I knew that I could get a SCD-1 + DAC setup that should rival these top of the line red book players.

As for now, I think the SCD-1 sounds simply awesome. No way can this player even be considered class B for redbook as it blows away my 333ES out of the water. Its at least a class A for redbook.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Mac, I take the final quote truly to betray that the reviewer does not think of the redbook playback of the 333 to be worthy of an A-class (or perhaps even B-class) rating. When reading an advertisment-driven magazine like Stereophile, one has to be on the lookout for slight hints that the reviewer isn't overly impressed with a product.

Dan, I actually disagree here. The impression I got from the review as a whole was that the Redbook playback was probably Class B. Elsewhere in the review he was comparing the Redbook playback to CD players/transports in the $4,000 range. So when he says "not the best I've ever heard," he's talking about Krell units that cost 5 times as much. To say that the Redbook playback of the 333ES isn't the best he's ever heard doesn't mean that it's bad

His comments throughout the review about Redbook were consistent with the descriptions he has given other Class B units. Thus, my read is that the SACD playback is solidly Class A, while Redbook playback is Class B.


Quote:

MacDEF my meaning was about Stereophile in giving their "grades" on SACD players grades them according to the players SACD performance.

Understood; I was just giving you a few snips that he wrote about Redbook, so you would get some idea of what his feelings were.

Quote:

I personally would like to see them start a double grade system for SACD/DVD-A players such as the Sony SACD-1 is class A+ in SACD playback and class B in redbook playback as an example so people considering getting a SACD player (or DVD-A player) can get a better idea about the players capability in both formats...

Completely agree.


I keep replying in this thread because there seems to be a stigma against the Redbook capability of SACD players -- almost exclusively by people who haven't heard any of the current SACD units. Those that have heard them have all praised their Redbook playback. In terms of the 333ES, I've now heard the opinions of at least four people (whose listening abilities I trust) who feel that its Redbook playback is comparable to units like the MF A3CD and the Planet 2000 -- both very good CDPs in the $950 range. The Redbook playback of the SCD-1 is supposedly clearly Class A.

Back to the original question: I have not heard the Jupiter, but it has been described to me by a prominent Stereophile reviewer as "something special" and clearly the best CDP at its price. That said, if the 777 is better than the 333, I would jump at the 777 -- it's Redbook playback is probably ClassA/B, and with some Wright mods it can probably approach or surpass the Jupiter. Plus you get SACD playback that blows the Jupiter away.

 

[pigmode]

Before I bought my cdp, I did some extensive research at Audio Review and Audio Asylum. I got the impression that the Sony 333 and 777 had a signature sound that you either liked or disliked.

 

[Vertigo-1]

I'm just curious what would happen if we also threw in a Arcam CD23 FMJ among those other two players...

The CD23 is supposed to have the world's best DAC bar none after all...the DAC alone is supposedly worth $12,000 without a transport.

Stereophile wondered why it even still had digital outputs, as it plainly didn't need them with the DAC its got.

And, what's with the 777/SCD-1's 30 second loading time?!? I'm sure that missle silo door is cool and all, but I think I'd personally avoid them just for that load time!