[kool bubba ice]

Yeah.. Maybe I should have given the DT48 all 5's cause they are my favorite headphone, & to make my review less credible.. & 2-3 sentences is not a review! But to be fair, if the reviewer hasn't heard better, then to them they might deserve all 5's, but I doubt it..
 
Quote:

So, I might not be the first to make a thread like this, but I did check. I apologize if I am not the first.
 
As much as I appreciate all the work that has gone into the site, and all the new features, I think the Head Gear part is just as bad as it is good.
 
It is great in the sense that we have a local database of reviews and products, but bad in the sense that seems to be nothing other than 5 star reviews... hardly streamlined. I apologize again to all in advance. I know a lot of these reviews are hard work, lots of thinking and comparing and time, and a gift to the community, but when everything is 5 starts, what good is it? The reviews that are lengthy are worth more than the stars as we get a glimps of why, but the short ones well... 
 
While I might be beating a dead horse, because everything here is subjective, I just think that it is just as useless as it is useful, and unless there are perhaps some more rigid rules and guidelines in place it will be as helpful as reading the reviews on amazing.com -_-.... where people plug E8's into ipods and whine about performance .
 
 
Call me  pessimist, call me a jerk, but thats just my two cents.

 

[haloxt]

If you guys want to make the star system more meaningful, write in big bold letters what each of the stars are supposed to mean to people about to write reviews or give stars. Because the way the star system works on, say, Amazon, ebay and youtube, five stars is just how you say you are not pissed off, and what you got was satisfactory. This method of using stars will obviously be adopted by most reviewers if no strict definitions of each star is given to ensure most headphones hover around the 3 stars median. Personally I vastly prefer if people just use stars as a method of saying if they are satisfied or not, and read reviews for in-depth information.

 

[Acix]

For me, a detailed review will be just fine, 5 start will make it like the cnet.com reviews.

 

[Ra97oR]

I would say no rating OR star at all, but instead Pros and Cons. Star rating and even rating on different area means nothing for something as complex as sound equipments.

 

[EddieE]

I agree with most of the above, way too many high and five star ratings. It changes the concept from "reviews section" to "look - people think their own gear is the best" section.
 
I also have a bit of an issue with "burn in" comments. You know like the new Bose review that says "at first it sounded crap but within a month it sounded great"…
 
… That isn't "burn in", that's "getting used to deficiencies"…
 
If you don't believe me, take your Bose back to the store and do a listening test with a new model if you can convince the sales staff to let you. I heard those same phones at a meet, fully "burned in" and they sounded exactly like the posters first impressions.
 
A very personal opinion of mine and a controversial one around here I know.
 
I do believe in a bit of burn in, but after a week your mind will start to tune out the things you don't like, and get used to the sound. That is a fact about the way the human mind works and not a statement about headphones at all.
 
You move into a house with horrible wall paper. You say to yourself you're going to change it quickly but within a month you don't really notice it that much and indeed it becomes a part of the identity of your home…
 
Did the wall paper "burn in" and reveal it's true qualities or did you just get used to tuning out its uglyness?
 
You buy a second hand fridge and it puts out an irritating humm the whole time. You think it'll drive you crazy but within a month you don't notice it anymore…
 
Did the fridge "burn in" or did you just get used to tuning out the humm?
 
I'm not trying to rock other people's beliefs and I don't mind at all that many will disagree. All I am asking is if you do believe in marathon burn in times, and you intend to write a review - then please don't listen to them while they burn in. Put some pink noise through them for how ever many hours you think they need, THEN write a review based on how they sound when you hear them "burned in".
 
Your impressions after a month of listening are next to worthless as they will not be objective, especially if you spent a lot of money on them and really, really want them to be good.
 
I listen to headphones out of the box and go through the (in my mind quite short) burn in period with them myself, but then I'm not writing reviews that might influence others to spend money.
 
Sorry if this sounds a bit inflamatory, I'm really not trying to start a fight.

 

[haloxt]

You complain a lot for someone not wanting to start an argument. First of all, you have a brain and you should train yourself to sift through BS when you see it. You know quite well that stars will be given with personal bias and a preponderance of 5 stars will occur, so learn to deal with it. This forum is about a hobby and sharing experiences and giving or receiving buying advice, not about enforcing political correctness.
 
And burn-in has been scientifically measured, if you want to argue against burn-in then disprove the measurements first, hopefully not with the logic you recommend for us to "disprove" burn-in with bose headphones, nor random analogies about refrigerators and wall paper.

 

[EddieE]

You complain a lot for someone not wanting to start an argument.

 
A lot? It's one post.
 

And burn-in has been scientifically measured, if you want to argue against burn-in then disprove the measurements first

 
I'm aware that it can take 24 hours or so for the moving parts in a phone to calm down, sometimes a little longer. It's the hundreds of hours claim which lead to people waiting till a month of listening to judge their phones/amp etc.
 
It's a very convenient claim for manufacturers isn't it? That's about the length of time it takes the human mind to get used to something it doesn't like at first and come to see it as normal.
 

random analogies about refrigerators and wall paper.

 
Well they aren't so random - they were to illustrate how it is completely normal for the human mind to adjust and get used to something it doesn't at first like at all.
 
Anyway, I wasn't even trying to debunk "burn in", what I was doing is pointing out that even if we believe in excessive burn in, most rational people also believe that the mind does adjust and get used to things.
 
So I was suggesting that if you plan to write a review and you do believe in excessive burn in, to burn it in off your head first before the review listening might be a good idea. Otherwise how do we tell what part of your improved experience is "burn in" and how do we tell what part is just your mind adapting to it?
 

This forum is about a hobby and sharing experiences and giving or receiving buying advice

 
I agree. However the reviews section in specific, with some ground rules, could be a very useful tool and a great resource.
 

not about enforcing political correctness.

 
Not quite sure how "political correctness" applies here tbh. The politically correct thing here is not to question claims to keep the peace; the controversial action to do otherwise.
 
Anyway, just like everyone else here, I am just expressing an opinion, take it or leave it, I'm finished with it.

 

[haloxt]

Question claims with more theories? Do you really have such a problem with people describing burn-in that you ask them to stop giving impressions before they are fully burned in, or ask them not to listen to their headphones during burn-in? If you don't like it, don't read it. And don't talk about it on a thread totally irrelevant to burn-in.
 
The way stars are used is just fine, people reading should know (or should learn) just because something has a lot of 5 stars does not mean the product is automatically perfect, but that the people who gave it 5 stars gave it that many for whatever reasons of their own. YOU are supposed to figure out the reasons behind human actions, not claim that their actions make no sense because they don't perfectly follow your thoughts of how stars ought to be used. If you read reviews online, you'd know that most people are not interested in giving weighted ratings on products, and those that do, are going to write long reviews describing comparisons which are much more valuable than stars. You can't ask people to give weighted opinions when they haven't done the comparisons with different equipment, or when 5 star rating is synonymous with "satisfactory" all over the internet. The usefulness of stars and written reviews will not change one iota by enforcing politically correct star ratings, all it will do is make the star ratings more reflective of written reviews, and also be a learning curve for people used to what 5 stars normally means on the internet.

 

[K_19]

We are also getting new posters registering just to make a review, a rather suspicious one at that, like the Bose Triport one by this gentlemen:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/user/jerryzhang
 
Now, I actually think the Triports are actually not too horrible and rate them a bit higher than what most people would here, but some of the content in that review is... Lulz.
 
"Sound quality is better than most headphones around the same price".
 

 

[The Monkey]

Most reviews are useless--stars or no stars.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Question claims with more theories? Do you really have such a problem with people describing burn-in that you ask them to stop giving impressions before they are fully burned in, or ask them not to listen to their headphones during burn-in? If you don't like it, don't read it. And don't talk about it on a thread totally irrelevant to burn-in.
 
The way stars are used is just fine, people reading should know (or should learn) just because something has a lot of 5 stars does not mean the product is automatically perfect, but that the people who gave it 5 stars gave it that many for whatever reasons of their own. YOU are supposed to figure out the reasons behind human actions, not claim that their actions make no sense because they don't perfectly follow your thoughts of how stars ought to be used. If you read reviews online, you'd know that most people are not interested in giving weighted ratings on products, and those that do, are going to write long reviews describing comparisons which are much more valuable than stars. You can't ask people to give weighted opinions when they haven't done the comparisons with different equipment, or when 5 star rating is synonymous with "satisfactory" all over the internet. The usefulness of stars and written reviews will not change one iota by enforcing politically correct star ratings, all it will do is make the star ratings more reflective of written reviews, and also be a learning curve for people used to what 5 stars normally means on the internet.

I suggest people stop arguing and listen instead to the beautiful, beautiful music.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

And burn-in has been scientifically measured,

 
Got a link?
 
 

 

 

[spritzer]

Yeah, I'd love to see that link. 

 

[haloxt]

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/468146/burn-in-myth/15#post_6338400
 
And if you want to argue, take it to a burn-in thread and send me a pm.

 

[Ypoknons]

That said, shouldn't there be a minimum post count before posting a review? It wouldn't stop a determined shill, but at least make it harder for them.
 
Quote:

We are also getting new posters registering just to make a review, a rather suspicious one at that, like the Bose Triport one by this gentlemen:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/user/jerryzhang
 
Now, I actually think the Triports are actually not too horrible and rate them a bit higher than what most people would here, but some of the content in that review is... Lulz.
 
"Sound quality is better than most headphones around the same price".