[TheSonicTruth]

The high school in our town has an FM station. Their "format" is
fundamentally "classic rock". They've done features on Hendrix, Zeppelin,
Janis Joplin and Greatful Dead. The do play contemporary, indy, etc. too,
but it's heavily classic rock. These are high school kids picking their
favorite music.

As I've said... There's hope out there

 

[bigshot]

I have to be honest... I kind of feel sorry for people who listen to the same music they listened to in high school when they are over 40. It's fine if you want to do that. I won't tell you that you shouldn't, but it's like having the same breakfast, lunch and dinner every day of your life. That makes me sad.

 

[chef8489]

I have to be honest... I kind of feel sorry for people who listen to the same music they listened to in high school when they are over 40. It's fine if you want to do that. I won't tell you that you shouldn't, but it's like having the same breakfast, lunch and dinner every day of your life. That makes me sad.

I listen to some of the music I listened to in High School, but I have a pretty eclectic taste in music.

 

[71 dB]

I have to be honest... I kind of feel sorry for people who listen to the same music they listened to in high school when they are over 40. It's fine if you want to do that. I won't tell you that you shouldn't, but it's like having the same breakfast, lunch and dinner every day of your life. That makes me sad.

I do listen to my "high school music" sometimes, but my taste has expanded constantly ever since, sometimes to unexpected directions. For many "high school music" was rock/metal, but for me it was UK Acid House of 1988. I didn't really get into rock until around 2001 (at age of 30) when I got into some soft rock bands and in 2008 I discovered King Crimson.

I have earned the right to like/enjoy stupid silly music because I have done my exploration work and also found tons of very sophisticated art music which I also enjoy. There is nothing wrong with listening to dumb music if it improves your well-being, but it's also worth it to explore with an open mind, because music has so much to offer. So, like you I feel a bit sad for people who think the music they discovered at age 15 is all there is to explore.

 

[71 dB]

The high school in our town has an FM station. Their "format" is fundamentally "classic rock". They've done features on Hendrix, Zeppelin, Janis Joplin and Greatful Dead. The do play contemporary, indy, etc. too, but it's heavily classic rock. These are high school kids picking their favorite music.

Those "kids" running the FM station must be some classic rock enthusiasts who have been "indoctinated" into the genre by their parents and are in no way a representation of the music taste of the millenials in general. If they were, Calvin Harris wouldn't be making millions. Rock "killed" Jazz in the 50's. Jazz continued to live, but in marginal. Rock had a good run of about 50 years, but now it has been pushed into the marginal by dance pop which will be pushed into the marginal by the next "big thing" whatever it is sometimes in the future. This is how music is. Genres are merely different sonic packages for musical ideas. New packages emerge and older packages go out of fashion into the marginal to be appreciated by those who explore beyond the mainstream.

 

[71 dB]

How do you think I've amassed my personal collection? Between Goodwills, Discogs, Library sales, and used yellow tags(when FYE was still around). But now the pickens are gett'n slim...!

Maybe you already have almost everything in your personal collection? What is this music you'd want to collect but you don't find anywhere? As a hobby "collecting" something is doomed, because eventually you have collected everything there is to collect or the things you are collecting are too difficult to obtain making the process slow. When I discovered Tangerine Dream in 2008, I collected 30 CDs per year of their music for the first 3 years, but after 90 CDs things became much more difficult. Collecting slowed down, significantly. The stuff I don't have is so expensive I am not willing to pay the prices.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

ffer. So, like you I feel a bit sad for people who think the music they
discovered at age 15 is all there is to explore.

I hope you are not including me in that assessment. There is a lot of post-2000, 2010s stuff I enjoy. All I'm saying is, leave the stuff from before 1990 alone. No 're-envisioning', no 'remastering', etc.

 

[GearMe]

I listen to some of the music I listened to in High School, but I have a pretty eclectic taste in music.

Ditto...Am guessing many folks on these forums have a wide variety of music genres they listen to. I certainly do and am always interested in new music...if it's engaging and is well done!

 

[71 dB]

I hope you are not including me in that assessment. There is a lot of post-2000, 2010s stuff I enjoy. All I'm saying is, leave the stuff from before 1990 alone. No 're-envisioning', no 'remastering', etc.

I am not including you because I don't know you well enough to know where you should be included and I never thought you only enjoy older music.

Money talks and even if some people want to protect the past, money rules. So, if there is money to be made of re-envisionistic remasters that's what we will have.
I have to say music before 1990 was not always perfectly mixed at all and skillful remastering can improve things, but "loudness war" is not that!

 

[SoundAndMotion]

Doesn't that just bust your bubble?

No. I prefer the original, but enjoy the CD version often (no turntable in the car!)

... makes you wanna yank it off your machine, open your window, and hurl that sucker up on your neighbor's roof across the street!!

There's no shame in seeking therapy!

 

[bigshot]

Those "kids" running the FM station must be some classic rock enthusiasts who have been "indoctinated" into the genre by their parents and are in no way a representation of the music taste of the millenials in general.

It's more likely that their playlists are vetted by a Boomer school administrator.

Ditto...Am guessing many folks on these forums have a wide variety of music genres they listen to.

I work with young film makers and one of the questions I ask them is what sort of music inspires them. Inevitably, they answer "all kinds"... so I ask them what their favorite opera is. (blank look) How about Latin? (blank look) Country music? (blank look) Chamber music? (blank look) Early jazz or ragtime? (blank look) Piano concerto? (blank look)... It turns out that "all kinds" means "all kinds of rock music".

As a side note... I heard a Muzak version of The Ramones' "I Wanna Be Sedated" at the supermarket once.

 

[gregorio]

[1] What I was trying to say is that there was a limit to how much compression etc when processing power was limited to analog equipment or 16 bit digital. In other words, the greater processing power could and is (in many cases) abused.
[2] What I (and Sonic Truth, I think) were getting at is that many or most of these flat transfer CDs subjectively sound better than their later remasters simply because they were a flat transfer without any futzing or attempt to make them louder and more compressed/limited.

1. There were always limits and the history/evolution of popular music genres from the 1960's onwards is largely dependent on abusing them. Arguably the biggest and most obvious such abuse was with the electric guitar in the 1960's, where over-driving guitar amps/cabs not just to the point of distortion but so massively beyond the point of distortion that pretty much the only thing being output was distortion! Compared to that, the amount of distortion from the loudness wars is relatively small, so why is the former not only acceptable but desirable and the latter so objectionable? The simple answer is age/generation! The guitar distortion wasn't acceptable, in fact it was so unacceptable that to my mother Hendrix didn't even qualify as music, it was just a horrible noise! And, a least in part, that is why I liked Hendrix, it was cool and radical, music specifically for my generation and not for older generations but of course now, I'm a member of the "older generations" and some contemporary popular music/genres I like, while to me, some of it barely even qualifies as music and some just sounds like bad music, packed with incompetent mistakes. Probably the old time engineers thought it sounded like an incompetent mistake when they heard guitar feedback back in the '60's. And, guitar distortion is just one of COUNTLESS examples, the same thing happened in the late '70's and early '80's with (analogue) compressors/limiters, over-driven to the point of destruction. In fact the last great analogue compressor (the Distressor, in the mid 1990's) was based on the sound characteristics of several previous vintage compressors and had a setting which emulated the hugely over driven compressors of the late '70's. The setting was called "Nuke", which should tell you all you need to know about what it did to sound quality!!

In other words, your statement is effectively true, the advance in technology (processing power and the algorithms that took advantage of it) could be abused, exactly the same as just about all music technology advances have always been abused since at least the mid '60's. Why should contemporary musicians and engineers not be allowed to do what previous generations of musicians and engineers did? If the response is "because older generations don't like it or think it's a mistake", that's about as counter-productive an argument as I can imagine!

2. I'm sure there were some "flat transfers", especially when CD really took off and they couldn't make the content quick enough but generally there would be some tinkering which might have been more "futzing" or just as likely, some de-futzing and often made louder (more compressed), so it didn't sound too quiet compared to contemporary releases. The loudness war may only have come to audiophiles' attention in the last 15 years or so but has been ongoing for at least 50, in fact it started with Juke boxes in the 1950's.

[1] It's not whether the remastered version sounds better or worse, but rather that it sounds different.
[2] You finally take home a CD issue of your absolute favorite album by your favorite artist, put it in your machine, and come to find they done some messed-up schitt in the mastering dept, or, as you mentioned, some weird new mix y'don't remember, makes you wanna yank it off your machine, open your window, and hurl that sucker up on your neighbor's roof across the street!!
[3] Those constraints, at the time of the release of that 1964 oldie or 1978 gem, resulted in those songs or albums sounding the way they did the first time most of us heard them. And, for 'better' or for worse, that is what, not just a few of us, prefer.

1. Of course, that's the whole point of a remaster, what would be the point of paying a mastering engineer to make a new master that sounded identical to an existing master?

2. I got that even before CD was released. You heard some new song on the radio or TV, went out and bought the cassette or LP and it didn't sound the same. As pinnahertz pointed out, the broadcast chain significantly changed it and not uncommonly, an edit specifically for radio play was made, to fit the required time slot.

3. Define "not just a few of us". Of course some will prefer an original version to a cleaner, usually louder (and in other ways different) master, some others used to an original will prefer the remaster though (or at least not hate it enough not to buy it) and those not used to an original will generally prefer the remaster. It's a sales issue, the labels need to monetise their back catalogue and if that upsets those "some" vehemently against a remaster, then so be it, they are relatively just a few. As bigshot stated though, it really has to be judged on a case by case basis, some remasters are better, even to most of us old timers. This makes those who're vehemently against remasters on principle a tiny "lunatic fringe" and there will always be a few of those, no matter what you do (or don't do).

G

 

[TheSonicTruth]

Maybe you already have almost everything in your personal
collection? What is this music you'd want to collect but you don't
find anywhere?

When's the last time you found an original CD release of 'TNT' by AC/DC in a Goodwill? Or 'DARK SIDE OF THE MOON' by Pink Floyd or any of the original Van Halen CD catalog at a library benefit sale? Nowadays, finding 'RELISH' by Joan Osborne or 'CRACKED REAR VIEW' by Hootie & The Blowfish is a big deal! Know what I mean?

 

[TheSonicTruth]

I have to say music before 1990 was not always
perfectly mixed at all

I resemble that comment, lol!

What would you have done differently on, say, 'BORN IN THE USA' or 'ELECTRIC LADYLAND'?

There's no such thing as a perfect music mix, or master - from before or since 1990!

 

[71 dB]

I work with young film makers and one of the questions I ask them is what sort of music inspires them. Inevitably, they answer "all kinds"... so I ask them what their favorite opera is. (blank look) How about Latin? (blank look) Country music? (blank look) Chamber music? (blank look) Early jazz or ragtime? (blank look) Piano concerto? (blank look)... It turns out that "all kinds" means "all kinds of rock music".

"All kinds" is also an answer when you are unsure of your taste and knowledge of music and don't want to expose it.

I enjoy some opera music, especially by Rameau and Handel (baroque era) era and Puccini (romantic era). Even when I enjoy a lot of Mozart, I am not into Mozart's operas and I don't like Verdi either. Wagner is ok and so on. Favorite opera? Perhaps Turandot by Puccini, Giulio Cesare by Handel or Les Indes galantes by Rameau. It's impossible to put one work above so many others when they all have so much to offer in their own ways.

I don't really listen to Latin music. Tangos by Piazzolla comes the closest perhaps?

Country music? Not my thing, but I am a fan of Carly Simon and some of her songs are that style.

Chamber Music? So much of that I enjoy! I could mention Beethoven's late String Quartets of Faure's Piano Quintets. Mozart, Haydn, Dittersdorf, J.S.Bach, C.P.E Bach, Mendelssohn, Saint-Saëns, Brahms, Elgar, Villa-Lobos, Buxtehude…. that list is endless!

Early Jazz/Ragtime? Not my thing.

Piano Concertos? Mozart's later Piano Concertos kick ass!

Anyway, answering questions like these is difficult so you get the easy answer: "all kinds".