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24bit vs 16bit, the myth exploded!

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by gregorio, Mar 19, 2009.
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  1. ALRAINBOW
    Oh geezzz u guys keep beating the same drum
    I have files I know are true hi res I’ll be doing it tomorrow some time and I’ll post Results.
     
  2. ALRAINBOW
    Actually it makes no Sense to do so but I’ll. Do as asked. Can you explain the point to do so. min theory it should have no impact on sound as such conclude the wrong not being able to hear a change.
    my point is to hear a 24/96 and down sample to redbook this is obvious as is red book stock and 24/192 as well. In addition even 16/44.1 to 24.88.2 is easy to hear
     
  3. SoundAndMotion
    @ALRAINBOW

    The reason to upsample to 24/96 is simple. At least some versions (don't know which you have) of the foo_ABX plugin, produce a noticeable pause when you switch from one sample rate to another. So you could keep track of whether the pause is short (same sample rate) or long (different sample rate). If you use a good sample rate converter, there is no harm in upsampling. To keep future skeptical questions to a minimum, just upsample.

    You may want to think of the possible outcomes from continuing with the ABX, and be prepared. I can think of 3, each with pros and cons for you. For each outcome, you can report it here or not.

    If you decide not to proceed, most people will wonder why, and you'll be the subject of ridicule (being chicken, etc.). But most of those who would ridicule you already are, so it may be a push. That's one outcome.

    If you fail to pass (generally considered > 5% chance of guessing), you can repeat the test with another track or other conditions, or just give it another try. But you may also be convinced that in the past you really couldn't "hear" a difference, but rather had "perceived" one due to biases. Then some here will say "I told you so", but many will welcome you into the fold of the converted. Many people here (and on other sites) have had such an experience and may tell you about it. That's the second outcome.

    The third outcome is one you really need to consider. What if you pass the test? Most (or all?!) of those pushing you to do the test will not accept this outcome! They will be certain that you either cheated or screwed something up. You have to know that saying "I didn't cheat" won't work. Both people who cheat and people who don't, say that. There may be some effort to figure out how you cheated or how you screwed up, but some simply won't accept a pass. You may want to ask beforehand, something that any honest science-oriented person can answer: Under what circumstances/conditions will you accept a passing score (e.g. < 5% chance of guessing)? Everyone who says "it won't happen", "it can't happen", "it's not possible, so I don't have to answer that", will never be satisfied. Know that ahead of time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
    Hifiearspeakers likes this.
  4. old tech
    What's with the pessimism? Regardless what anyone on this forum may think, if the third outcome comes to pass and it can be shown to be valid think of all the positives.

    Firstly, Alrainbow might be able to take this test further afield and disprove the year long, multi subject, multi source, multi listening environment 10 years' Meyer and Moran test (and the many controlled tests before it) and now some 30 years after the marketers called studio work files as "hi res" for gullible audiophiles to repurchase their music collection, finally provide some compelling evidence that high res on its own does indeed result in sound differences for consumers. Perhaps it still won't convince those that could not pass these tests and they will think that alrainbow is a one of kind mutant. Even so, if Alrainbow can positively hear a difference with files, particularly with ones that originally were analog recordings, that is a double outstanding human achievement - somehow he can hear standard res as hi res too. Nearly all universities have been looking for human freaks so he will be in a very high demand everywhere.

    So I have to disagree with you as I can see nothing but positives for Alrainbow, the advancement of human knowledge and understanding (perhaps even the occult) and research material to keep audio science faculties busy for decades.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  5. Daiyama
    I sense a little bit of irony here.
     
  6. SoundAndMotion
    No pessimism, just experience reading several audio forums. Ignoring the rest of your clown-ish post (you kind of make my point for me), why don't you go ahead and state clearly under which circumstances you'll change your mind? What if @ALRAINBOW gets 8/8 correct? 12/14? 20/20 on three separate occasions, using only the methods offered so far recently in this thread?
    None of those would convince me. What about you? What would?
    @old tech , why should he do anything with the possibly that a lot of effort will convince no one?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
    Hifiearspeakers likes this.
  7. Hifiearspeakers
    I like it when people keep it real and are honest.

    +1 for you sir.
     
  8. ALRAINBOW
    You guys are childish really yiu want me to make a comment on a test that must prove your point lol. You can’t hear a change if there is none and if I upsample a fine to hi res it can’t show me one how dumb is this thread.
    uet you jackals atatck me it’s pretty sad
     
  9. SoundAndMotion
    I admit I really struggle to understand your posts... but that begs the question: how well do you understand what others are writing? I suspect: what we've got here is failure to communicate. (Ref. Cool Hand Luke)
     
  10. ALRAINBOW
    Hahaha it may be just that. A great movie and ref.
    Ty.
     
  11. sander99
    There definitely is a language problem. What is "a fine" in "if I upsample a fine to hi res"? What is "it" in "it can't show me one"?

    I suspect @ALRAINBOW your English is at a level that you don't understand half of what is written in this thread. This is not meant as an insult, there are of course many languages that I don't speak. But please at least try to type carefully, it is hard enough to follow what you write without the typing errors.
    Maybe you should find someone that speaks your language very well and speaks English very well to carefully translate some of the posts for you. For example the posts (at least three) that explain what the upsampling of the 44.1/16 is good for.
     
  12. taffy2207
    File :thumbsup:
     
  13. SoundAndMotion
    @ALRAINBOW , @sander99 è giusto. Hai davvero bisogno di aiuto con il problema della lingua. Se questa traduzione ha senso in italiano, prova Google Translate. Sarebbe davvero uno spreco di tempo (e altri) continuare senza una migliore comunicazione.

    Translated from: @ALRAINBOW , @sander99 is right. You really need help with the language issue. If this traslation makes any sense in Italian, try Google Translate. It would really be a waste of your time (and others) to continue without better communication.
     
  14. chef8489
    Maybe he is typing on his phone at times. I know its a pain the arse sometimes when doing so and phone takes over.
     
  15. miksu8
    So in theory 16 and 24 bits sound the same, but how is it in practice? What is the likelyhood that the 24bit version of some record sounds better because of better production?
     
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