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2359glenn | studio

Discussion in 'Headphone Amps (full-size)' started by silent one, Mar 9, 2012.
  1. mordy
    Looks like it's down to trial and error......
    Re triple drivers I also noted that the volume may go down, but at the same time the sound fills out.
  2. Xcalibur255

    That's a deep rabbit hole. I've been thinking about this for years and I still am uncertain which type I would buy. That's half the reason why I haven't yet. Every discussion I have ever read comparing EML solid plate vs. mesh plate has been completely unhelpful in steering me towards one in particular. Some of the information out there is also old and not applicable anymore. People used to recommend against mesh plates in the past because they were less reliable, but this was a decade ago and those problems have been solved now. You still see it come up though as a factor of consideration.

    I think the "safe" choice is always going to be a solid plate. The big feature of mesh plate tubes is the way the damping is affected by that plate design. But exactly what effect this has on the sound seems to be something intangible that people have a hard time describing. I know some people love whatever it does, but it really seems like one of those things you just have to try for yourself and find out. It's an awfully expensive bit of curiosity to satisfy though.

    I have to say, in the end, that I suspect either tube will sound nice. We're really just talking about different flavors here when you think about it. Sometimes I think we overthink these things.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
    pippen99 likes this.
  3. Xcalibur255
    In the case of an OTL it might be that you are moving the impedance relationship between the amp and your headphones closer to the ideal with that configuration. Just a thought/guess.

    There are so many variables and they all interact with each other. It's no wonder this hobby attracts OCD prone people. :p
  4. GDuss
    If the 6x power tubes are in parallel, then the total amplification of the circuit should take into account that they are wired in parallel and is likely not simply multiplication or addition of the mu of each type (e.g. probably not 2 X 15 if using 6080 together with 6BL7). If this were resistors in parallel, the math is straightforward, but I'm not sure what the math is for amplification in parallel. Two resistors in parallel, where one is 2 ohms and the other is 15 ohms gives an output resistance of the circuit of 1.76 ohms, clearly closer to the lowest mu.

    I think it's the same for the driver tubes, where if you have both a 6SN7 and 2x C3g it's not a multiplication of the mu of the tube types but some other math that determines the final mu. The final value may end up being closer to the mu of the lower amplification tube, depending on how the equation works.

    Usual caveat applies here, that I could be totally wrong.
    chrisdrop likes this.
  5. mordy
  6. GDuss
    That article doesn't seem to address how to determine the total mu of a circuit where tubes of different types are in parallel. So maybe that's the reason for the big question mark.
  7. JazzVinyl
    Explains how to come up with a single tubes mu number via math according to ohms law. But, it does not address using multiple tubes. This was partially addressed in an earlier message.

    I have found that when a higher mu tube is used at the same time with a lower mu tube, the overall mu is at or near the value of the lower mu tube.
  8. GDuss
    The first time I used the EL32s in the C3g slots, I noticed that it decreased the volume compared to using a 6SN7 alone. Based on the discussion with you (which people didn't see as it was in a PM), it became clear that was typical with the low mu of the EL32 (mu of 7) dropping down the mu of the 6SN7 (mu of 20). This helped form the basis for the discussion above that the overall mu of a parallel circuit is probably somewhat similar to what happens with parallel resistance.
  9. L0rdGwyn
    By paralleling more tubes, you are generating more current to drive the headphones and simultaneously lowering the output impedance which will give better definition of the low frequencies.

    Is your mains issue related to grounding? Not sure if it is the same in the UK, but in the US many old homes (like mine) do not have grounded outlets which causes all kinds of problems with audio gear (ground loops, mains noise leakage, etc.). Tried using different outlets? Conveniently in my house, the outlet closest to my system is the only one that isn't grounded :dt880smile: I use an extension cord to get to a grounded outlet or the noise is unbearable, will get around to grounding it eventually, but might be a big project.

    One thing I have been looking into recently is getting an isolation transformer for my system, but have to research it further.
    chrisdrop likes this.
  10. DecentLevi
    I'm surprised nobody recommend the RCA 6080's. These easily fit the cheap requirement and have for many been a mainstay of solid performance. Very neutral and good rhythm handling, by far the best bang for the buck among 6080's IMO.
    chrisdrop and Monsterzero like this.
  11. Monsterzero
    I like the RCA 6080s as well,though theyre very warm with ZMF headphones.

    On a side cable note @Gopher dropped off another FTA Callisto USB cable for my RCA cable shootout. Thank you sir!
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
    chrisdrop likes this.
  12. mordy
    Hi Monsterzero,
    Since you quoted somebody that all cables detract from the sound, what are the drawbacks of doing away with the cables and going wireless?
    Would it be feasible to connect different components wirelessly?
  13. Monsterzero
    I have no idea TBH. The last time I checked on wireless there were several drawbacks,including bit rate limitations. That may have been rectified(pun intended),but im old school in thought and age. I dont like to stream music,and I like to have a hardwired connection whenever possible,whether it be my computer or gaming consoles or audio gear.
    I suppose getting into a DAC/amp all in one solution would eliminate the RCA cables from the equation. I am supposed to be receiving a new DAC/amp for review purposes sometime fairly soon. I doubt however that many folks here would be willing to ditch their Glenn.
    DecentLevi and 2359glenn like this.
  14. gibosi
    My experience is with rectifiers, but I have no reason to think that drivers and output tubes would be substantially different....

    I have Valvo and Telefunken AZ12 rectifiers, mesh and sheet metal, and in both cases the two versions were manufactured only a few years apart, with the mesh being the earliest and the sheet metal a few years later.

    And in each case the most noticeable difference is in the highs, mesh plates are slightly less sharp. And to my mind this is due to the difference in the harmonic resonance of these materials. If you were to tap the sheet-metal plates, you would hear a metallic ringing sound. And if you were to tap the mesh plates, you would hear a very dull sound -- "damped" if you will. So it seems to me that the "ringing" of the sheet-metal plates is adding a bit more treble energy. And perhaps it is safe to say that the mesh plates are perhaps more neutral. Anyway, this is they way it seems to me. But of course, my ears and my gear...
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
    Xcalibur255 and L0rdGwyn like this.
  15. L0rdGwyn
    Ever get around to trying that Nippon Electric 5R4-GY? Curious to hear what you think as I will be using the NEC 5Z3 in my amp.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019

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