2359glenn | studio
Aug 14, 2019 at 5:00 AM Post #28,561 of 39,934
I believe the reason for not leaving electronic devices on in general may have more to do with reducing the environmental impact of energy production and electricity bill - to which I agree.

Every little bit helps.
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 5:23 AM Post #28,563 of 39,934
Aug 14, 2019 at 8:58 AM Post #28,564 of 39,934
EL11, EL12, EL12N do not have side contacts. They use the same pins as EL12 spez.

I believe @gibosi has a Valvo EL11 with side contacts, but I think it is a rarity.

A picture of some of my steel pins EL tubes.


Those are some good looking tubes. I might have Deyan make me some EL11 adapters.
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 9:07 AM Post #28,565 of 39,934
@L0rdGwyn to be completely transparent, the most likely reasons for not hearing a difference between DACs would be the resolving ability of headphones used and hearing ability to be able to notice the details. The DAC does the heavy lifting that sets the pace for the rest of the chain all the way to your ears. It can make as big a difference as the food you put into your body. I'm not saying either two above factors are an issue in your case, but maybe it could be that the DACs you tried were too similar or the amping was not quite up to spec. Either way I applaud you for being open to trying new DACs to hear the difference.

You may be right DL, perhaps the DACs I've been comparing are too similar, maybe I need to get a little more exotic :) as far as the headphones go, comparisons in the past have been with the Auteur and HD800, which I think are suitably transparent. But I am willing to revisit it, if there is an untapped method to improve my listening experience, I am all for it.

There is something of a objectivist vs. subjectivist audiophile war being waged right now, not so much on Head-Fi, but other parts of the internet. I've had to walk away from some other forums having been ridiculed for liking horrible distortion-generating tube amps. It's a shame. Like every other heated debate, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but people are unable to remain skeptical and question their own opinions. Even though I have fallen closer to the objectivist side when it comes to DACs up to this point, I would be very happy to be proven wrong.
 
Last edited:
Aug 14, 2019 at 9:44 AM Post #28,566 of 39,934
Certainly interesting that the EL3N and EL11 could be identical except for the bases. Somehow however in my multi-year experience with both on the Elise & Euforia amp they both sound almost the opposite, the EL3N being more slow and dark yet both being fairly lush. There must be some finer detail that sets them apart in the internal construction or materials, conductivity etc. But certainly the slimmer ST shaped EL11's such as Telefunken or RFT must be different, sounding brighter and less organic with bass of a different flavor.

Electrically identical does not mean "sound" identical. All 6SN7GT are electrically identical, but an RCA sounds very different than a Sylvania. The factory matters.

The EL11 and EL3N are electrically identical. But of course an EL11 manufactured by Telefunken sounds different than an EL3N manufactured by Philips in Holland. However, it is relatively easy to remove the German octal base from a Telefunken EL11 and install a European side-contact base. And voila, you have a Telefunken EL3N. And in fact, you could even install an American octal base, but I have no idea what you would call it. And it is certainly possible to install a German octal base or a European side-contact base on a 6SN7GT! Again, the base has no affect on the sound. The tube will sound the same regardless of which base is installed.

As I recall, Telefunken strongly championed the German octal base and as a result, it became a de facto standard in Germany. But the rest of Europe primarily used the side-contact base. Some manufacturers and factories that served both markets manufactured both the EL11 and EL3N. And again, same tube, different base.

And this is not the only example of same tube, different bases. The AZ4 rectifier has a European side-contact base while the AZ12 has the German octal base. But again, they are identical except for the base.

I believe @gibosi has a Valvo EL11 with side contacts, but I think it is a rarity.

What I have are EL11 and EL3N manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berliln. Being a Philips company based in Berlin, Loewe Opta catered to the local German market, the EL11, and the broader European market, the EL3N. The EL11 I have carries the Valvo brand. And the EL3N carries the Philips brand. Again, same tube, different base. And yes, they sound identical.
 
Last edited:
Aug 14, 2019 at 11:13 AM Post #28,569 of 39,934
Hello All,

I'm glad to hear our lampizator dacs getting some attention over here. Yes while it's true our flagship dac tops out around $30k, we also pride ourselves on having class leading performance at each of our price points beginning with the Amber at around 2500.

It is true that we've moved away from the r2r digital engines that were popular in our prior generation of dacs. This decision was made as our current offerings are leaps and bounds ahead of our previous.

I'm happy to answer any questions you guys may have on our products. Don't be shy to give me a shout!

Fred
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 11:13 AM Post #28,570 of 39,934
Hi, Matt, the AU sellers always request over US$35 for shipping to the states. Do they make profit on shipping? Thx.
I think that indeed is the going rate. A lot of US sellers will try and charge the same for Priority shipping just to Canada. I try and tell them that regular USPS is fine at around $16. It's often cheaper to get packages sent from Europe - especially the UK (where I do most of my tube buying) and Germany. Italy is another expensive one. Living in the US and purchasing in the US is the best option!
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 11:28 AM Post #28,571 of 39,934
Because the firmware can be upgraded (both DAC and the bridge II), the manufacturer used to get a lot of complains because the end users want a perfect DAC. :)

I have been through 3 upgrades and the SQ has improved each time. The Bridge II is another whole thing as the firmware is third party (Conversdigital) which the founder Paul McGowan has sworn never to do again. Of course there will always be some who don't appreciate that it wasn't perfect the first time but then it never would have reached the public in the first place. Headphones and amps come and go but my DSD DAC stays.

P.S.: The firmware upgrades are FREE!:smile_phones:
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 12:02 PM Post #28,572 of 39,934
Project Berlin may have to be delayed in favour of Project Xanadu - that's my code name for EL34, 6V6, 6L6, KT66, 5881, EL35, EL37, EL38, EL39 with dual L63.
Tough decision. Here's a picture showing the differences between an Osram KT66, Fivre 6L6G and Fivre 6V6G.

IMG_3766.JPG
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 12:05 PM Post #28,573 of 39,934
Electrically identical does not mean "sound" identical. All 6SN7GT are electrically identical, but an RCA sounds very different than a Sylvania. The factory matters.

The EL11 and EL3N are electrically identical. But of course an EL11 manufactured by Telefunken sounds different than an EL3N manufactured by Philips in Holland. However, it is relatively easy to remove the German octal base from a Telefunken EL11 and install a European side-contact base. And voila, you have a Telefunken EL3N. And in fact, you could even install an American octal base, but I have no idea what you would call it. And it is certainly possible to install a German octal base or a European side-contact base on a 6SN7GT! Again, the base has no affect on the sound. The tube will sound the same regardless of which base is installed.

As I recall, Telefunken strongly championed the German octal base and as a result, it became a de facto standard in Germany. But the rest of Europe primarily used the side-contact base. Some manufacturers and factories that served both markets manufactured both the EL11 and EL3N. And again, same tube, different base.

And this is not the only example of same tube, different bases. The AZ4 rectifier has a European side-contact base while the AZ12 has the German octal base. But again, they are identical except for the base.



What I have are EL11 and EL3N manufactured by Loewe Opta, a Philips subsidiary located in Berliln. Being a Philips company based in Berlin, Loewe Opta catered to the local German market, the EL11, and the broader European market, the EL3N. The EL11 I have carries the Valvo brand. And the EL3N carries the Philips brand. Again, same tube, different base. And yes, they sound identical.
Hi gibosi,
I have seen TFK EL3N tubes for sale by Billings in the UK, but I don't know anybody who tried them.
I am sure that the base of a tube does not change the sound, but my experience has been that tubes from the same manufacturer with the same designation but different shape, sound different. One example is the TFK EL11 ST type and straight glass type which don't sound the same to me.
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 12:52 PM Post #28,574 of 39,934
Hi gibosi,
I have seen TFK EL3N tubes for sale by Billings in the UK, but I don't know anybody who tried them.
I am sure that the base of a tube does not change the sound, but my experience has been that tubes from the same manufacturer with the same designation but different shape, sound different. One example is the TFK EL11 ST type and straight glass type which don't sound the same to me.

Yes indeed. Tubes manufactured by the same maker in the same factory at different times often sound different. We all know that the RPBG Tung-Sol 6SN7GT sounds very different than the Mouse Ears. But according to the data sheets, they are electrically identical.
 
Aug 14, 2019 at 1:34 PM Post #28,575 of 39,934
Yes indeed. Tubes manufactured by the same maker in the same factory at different times often sound different. We all know that the RPBG Tung-Sol 6SN7GT sounds very different than the Mouse Ears. But according to the data sheets, they are electrically identical.

Man, I got a pair of Mouse Ears and can't find them... Never even got to use them! :smile:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top