[Xcalibur255]

Now we are talking caps. Things just got more interesting.

But didn't Tyrell say the best cap is no cap at all?

Alright I will look into caps.

If you have that option. In many cases you don't. Trust Glenn's advice on this subject, he knows more than all the rest of us combined. I'm not an amp designer like he is, I don't fully understand which circumstances let you do direct stage coupling with no coupling cap. I only know that people do it sometimes and that it's a plus when the option is available. The fewer components you have in the audio signal path the better. It's like a bucket brigade passing water to a fire: the more buckets the water goes through the more sloshes out each time and less ends up on the fire. Each cap and resistor adds a tiny bit more coloration/distortion/etc. to the sound and takes a tiny bite out of transparency.

 

[Xcalibur255]

For those looking into caps: Duelund has a new product out called the JAM. It's the successor the Duelund Alexander which I used in my amp. The designer claims the JAM is built the same way as their top of the line CAST capacitor, only packaged in a less expensive aluminum can rather than the exotic pressed paper that CAST uses. Some early reviews say it's pretty close to the CAST in most ways and better than the Alexander was.

They're doing initial release promotional pricing right now so you can get them for around $50 which is pretty good for what's being offered. I think I bought my Alexanders on sale for 80-ish and that didn't feel like a waste of money at the time.

The interstage coupling cap is one of the more important things in the amp for sound quality. This is one place where it's best to splurge rather than skimp.

 

[UntilThen]

There is no chance that a watt and a half or even eight watts would substitute for my 250 WPC Hafler amp, either...

Such comparison is pointless, There's the right amp for every system. Big inefficient speakers will require the right amp to drive. However the EL3N amp might just be capable of providing adequate level of enjoyment driving high efficiency speakers if you don't need floor moving experience. In the study, on the desktop, it may be all you need.

The lounge system on the other hand is different.

 

[UntilThen]

If you have that option. In many cases you don't. Trust Glenn's advice on this subject, he knows more than all the rest of us combined. I'm not an amp designer like he is, I don't fully understand which circumstances let you do direct stage coupling with no coupling cap. I only know that people do it sometimes and that it's a plus when the option is available. The fewer components you have in the audio signal path the better. It's like a bucket brigade passing water to a fire: the more buckets the water goes through the more sloshes out each time and less ends up on the fire. Each cap and resistor adds a tiny bit more coloration/distortion/etc. to the sound and takes a tiny bite out of transparency.

I will certainly be guided by Glenn's suggestions. Having live with the OTL amp for 6 months, I know Glenn builds some of the nicest sounding headphone tube amps out there. I could not get enough of the OTL tone.

When I ordered my OTL amp, I did not discuss caps with Glenn because I know next to zero on the subject. I left it to him. Only a few days ago did he mentioned it was the Russian military caps that were used in my amp and it sounded like a million bucks ... the amp that is.

Glenn's philosophy of getting the best sound with cheap affordable tubes certainly makes sense. These low cost sextet 6BX7gt tubes are now permanently resident in the power slots. I am only rolling my different drivers now.

 

[Phantaminum]

I have to ask. Is anyone using the GOTL with preamps out —> solid state high power speaker amp —> Speakers? I’d love to hear what people think. If possible the sound changes they hear and pros / cons?

I may just opt for it once and for all. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it right?

 

[Xcalibur255]

Only a few days ago did he mentioned it was the Russian military caps that were used in my amp and it sounded like a million bucks ... the amp that is.

Probably the K40-Y9 if memory serves. They sound very good. It's possible to do better, but you have throw money at the situation.
I do think the new Duelund JAM would be worth their price. I think the Alexanders are better than the K40's. Not a lot better, but the tone is a little more true and the extension a bit better. If the JAM is better than the Alexander, which is what people are saying, then $46 doesn't seem like too much to ask for that level of performance.

For reference I don't think you find the K40 for less than $20 a pair anymore either. At least not on eBay.

 

[JazzVinyl]

Such comparison is pointless, There's the right amp for every system. Big inefficient speakers will require the right amp to drive. However the EL3N amp might just be capable of providing adequate level of enjoyment driving high efficiency speakers if you don't need floor moving experience. In the study, on the desktop, it may be all you need.

The lounge system on the other hand is different.

Not suggesting trying to power the floor standers with a GEL3N.

I personally have never found effecient speakers to sound very good.

If you purchase a GEL3N - you will enjoy it powering low Z cans but since you already have the floor standers and a “big power” amp...

I am suggesting you will be entertained via effecient speakers and a watt and a half headphone amp...for about......15 to 30 seconds...

After that, the idea will be forgotton.

 

[gibosi]

Rectifiers in general can affect the sound of an amp in two ways: 1) Through the amount of voltage drop they exhibit, which varies from tube to tube and affects the operating points of the other tubes in the amp (thus changing their sound), and 2) by the properties and behavior of the diodes (recovery times, noise, etc.).

With all due respect, based on my experience, I think it is bit more complicated....

Over the years, I have been struck by the fact that rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory sound quite similar. That is, there is a Telefunken sound, a GEC sound, a Mullard sound, and so on. This suggests to me that many of the same variables are at play which affect the sound of rectifiers and double triodes. After all, a full-wave rectifier is simply a double triode without grids. In each case, there is a complex metal structure mounted inside a glass bottle that vibrates and even moves and sways. And it is my understanding that this vibration and movement is a significant source of harmonic distortion.

Again, rectifiers and double triodes manufactured in the same factory tend to sound very similar. An assembly line in a Mullard factory is designed and constructed differently than one in a GEC factory. And the mechanical differences in tubes produced on different assembly lines produce different harmonic distortion curves which result in a different "sound". Tubes manufactured in different factories sound different. Tubes manufactured in the same factory sound similar.

In my experience, voltage drop does not seem to affect the sound of a rectifier as much as harmonic distortion. For example, I have measured the voltage drop of several AZ50 manufactured in different factories. They measure the same, but sound different. And that difference in sound correlates directly with the factory of origin.

Anyway, this is just my two cents... YMMV....

 

[UntilThen]

I have to ask. Is anyone using the GOTL with preamps out —> solid state high power speaker amp —> Speakers? I’d love to hear what people think. If possible the sound changes they hear and pros / cons?

I may just opt for it once and for all. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it right?

You have to ask @yates7592 . His amp has preamp out and he was using it with speakers.

... and we still don't know who the new owner of his amp is.

 

[UntilThen]

Probably the K40-Y9 if memory serves. They sound very good. It's possible to do better, but you have throw money at the situation.
I do think the new Duelund JAM would be worth their price. I think the Alexanders are better than the K40's. Not a lot better, but the tone is a little more true and the extension a bit better. If the JAM is better than the Alexander, which is what people are saying, then $46 doesn't seem like too much to ask for that level of performance.

For reference I don't think you find the K40 for less than $20 a pair anymore either. At least not on eBay.

This is good info. I will mention the Duelund JAM to Glenn.

 

[UntilThen]

I am suggesting you will be entertained via effecient speakers and a watt and a half headphone amp...for about......15 to 30 seconds...

After that, the idea will be forgotton.

I have to agree that you will be right, especially in my situation. I have tasted the apple and it's good. Redgum driving my Axis LS88 is like going to a party and discover you can salsa with the prettiest girl on the dance floor. .... without falling over.

 

[UntilThen]

With all due respect, based on my experience, I think it is bit more complicated....

I have never roll a single rectifier in my entire life but I have a strong hunch that I agree with you Ken.

I was reading the DNA Stratus thread and those guys there are firmly convinced that different rectifiers contribute their own unique characteristics of warm, lush, bright, vivid, smooth, grainy etc. Some of them have the coveted WE 422a.

 

[2359glenn]

I have never roll a single rectifier in my entire life but I have a strong hunch that I agree with you Ken.

I was reading the DNA Stratus thread and those guys there are firmly convinced that different rectifiers contribute their own unique characteristics of warm, lush, bright, vivid, smooth, grainy etc. Some of them have the coveted WE 422a.

The WE-422 is the lowest voltage drop of any tube I tested so far. Only SS has a lower voltage drop of .7 volts
To be honest I have been surcharging for this tube at a some what reasonable price.
I do have a skinny GZ37 Mullard waiting for my EL3N amp to be built some day when I have time.
The GZ34 has a lower voltage drop but it is such a boring tube to look at.

 

[2359glenn]

This is good info. I will mention the Duelund JAM to Glenn.

Capacitors have a large effect on the sound. Even larger then changing tubes.
As far as the Russian military cap they sound good for a low price. I never done a A-B with a Duelund .
Both sound good to me don't know what one sounds better. The Jupiter copper foil paper and bees wax sounds good too.

 

[attmci]

Laurel vs. Yanny

1 vote for Yanny.