2 free tweaks for speaker-fi show noticable improvments in sound
Dec 13, 2007 at 7:36 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

chesebert

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I notice an relaxation in the treble and an much improved dynamics resulting a blacker background (lifting some veils) and more analog like sound.

1) lift your cable at least 6in off the ground (I previous had the cable about 1in off the ground, increasing that to 6in made a noticeable difference in dynamics and bass slam) - I use unshielded twisted 10g wire

2) If you are using jumpers, I assume stranded version/brass bar, change them to a 10g solid (not stranded) bare copper (no shielding). The difference in highfreq and the naturalness of the extension was surprising before and after the tweak.


<bigshot, sugarinthegourd, LawnGnome, Febs, OverlordXenu, Leporello, Riboge, fkclo, meat01>
will the above people please DO NOT post in this thread. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 7:47 AM Post #2 of 20

LawnGnome

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
<bigshot, sugarinthegourd, LawnGnome, Febs, OverlordXenu, Leporello, Riboge, fkclo, meat01>
will the above people please DO NOT post in this thread. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.



Seems like flame baiting to me. You should really make your attempts less obvious.

Not to mention you have no right or power to say who posts where.

Also, what does your cable have against floors?
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 2:35 PM Post #3 of 20

porschemad911

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Right ...

All I can say is I'm glad you're enjoying your tweaks, but I certainly won't be trying those.
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 3:29 PM Post #4 of 20

883dave

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I notice an relaxation in the treble and an much improved dynamics resulting a blacker background (lifting some veils) and more analog like sound.

1) lift your cable at least 6in off the ground (I previous had the cable about 1in off the ground, increasing that to 6in made a noticeable difference in dynamics and bass slam) - I use unshielded twisted 10g wire

2) If you are using jumpers, I assume stranded version/brass bar, change them to a 10g solid (not stranded) bare copper (no shielding). The difference in highfreq and the naturalness of the extension was surprising before and after the tweak.


<bigshot, sugarinthegourd, LawnGnome, Febs, OverlordXenu, Leporello, Riboge, fkclo, meat01>
will the above people please DO NOT post in this thread. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.



What did you use to raise your cables? I have experimented at various heights with 2x4's and 1/4" dowels with no noticable affect.

On my last set of speakers, I went from bi-wire to better single runs, this resulted in more enjoyable sound, I also found that the better the jumper was the more enjoyable the sound became, one I bought from the local shop, one I made from kimber 8xtc (?) wire and one was the original gold plated jumper supplied with the speakers.

On my new speakers they only have one set of binding posts. Next time I hook up the old speakers I will try a bare 10g wire
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 3:35 PM Post #5 of 20

chesebert

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jumper: I just used the heavy all copper 10g solid house wiring (I just want to see if changing jumper makes a difference....heh..was I surprised); so which of the 3 jumper did you prefer?

I never had biwire, it doesn't make sense to me; and with enough people on the single-run camp to make me not want to try (I know Harbeth recommend against bi-wire despite the fact they include ability to bi-wire..go figure)
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 4:59 PM Post #6 of 20

883dave

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I prefered the kimber, which I cut and twisted.

As for bi-wiring...I used a Sunfire amp with voltage and current taps, Bob's idea was to hook the current to the mids and tweets (for a more tube like sound) and voltage to the woofers (for a solid state sound).
I tried single wires from each tap with a jumper, and found I enjoyed the bi-wiring best. When I upgraded speaker wire (only purchased a single run) the single run of better wire sounded more enjoyable that cheaper bi-wired.
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 6:02 PM Post #7 of 20

bigshot

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
<bigshot, sugarinthegourd, LawnGnome, Febs, OverlordXenu, Leporello, Riboge, fkclo, meat01>
will the above people please DO NOT post in this thread. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.



Just sticking my head in the door to say "HOWDY EVERYBODY!" in my best Minnie Pearl impression!

You may return to your blacker blacks and veils now.

See ya
Steve
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 6:18 PM Post #8 of 20

Gaara

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I've tried raising wires and never really noticed a difference. I used Canare 4S11 and Cat 5 and used bricks to raise the wires up.

As for replacing the jumpers, I noticed a very slight difference when I did this. By slight I mean it may have made a difference or may have been placebo.

Personally the best cheap tweak for me for speakers is positioning. Changing the height of my speakers has made more of an impact then any tweak ever has, and the cost is very low. Moving them around the room and experimenting with toe-in has also giving large improvements and is free (ignoring opportunity cost).
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 6:42 PM Post #9 of 20

chesebert

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Is your room carpeted, and did you raise the spkr cable at least 6in off the ground? You probably wouldn't notice any difference if 1) your room is not carpeted, and 2) your cable is shielded (which creates its own set of problems)
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 7:05 PM Post #10 of 20

Gaara

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Is your room carpeted, and did you raise the spkr cable at least 6in off the ground? You probably wouldn't notice any difference if 1) your room is not carpeted, and 2) your cable is shielded (which creates its own set of problems)


The room is actually double carpeted (2 layers, supposed to feel nicer then one?) and the speaker wires are unshielded. Canare starquad is just a double run of unshielded 14 gauge, and Cat5 is...cat5.

I never really have noticed big differences from tweaks and I have tried a lot. The biggest differences I have been able to hear are from speaker positioning, and then from vibration control. I haven't heard much from rca caps, shorting plugs, cd treatments, raising wires, noise filters, etc. Sometimes small differences but non of them comparable to positioning.
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 7:42 PM Post #11 of 20

chesebert

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can't really argue about positioning or room treatments. I just listened to the system again and I am now 100% sure that I can hear a distinct improvement in dynamics; I was able to lower my listening volume without sacrificing the dynamics. Maybe its the combination of jumper and raise the wire (I did these 2 at the same time so i don't know which tweak did what
wink.gif
 
Dec 13, 2007 at 8:51 PM Post #12 of 20

skullguise

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
can't really argue about positioning or room treatments. I just listened to the system again and I am now 100% sure that I can hear a distinct improvement in dynamics; I was able to lower my listening volume without sacrificing the dynamics. Maybe its the combination of jumper and raise the wire (I did these 2 at the same time so i don't know which tweak did what
wink.gif



I was surprised at the benefits that raising the cable made. A friend once did an experiment, he thought he heard an improvement when he raised the speaker cables off the floor. He took the exact same passage of music, and played it before and after raising the cables. No volume change, nothing.

He used an SPL meter, and measured a 2-3db increase in volume when cables were raised. We did this twice with and without, and it was consistent.

Other things we thought we heard - more dyanmics, better highs - may have been the result of the increased volume.

I had read once that (depending on the speaker cables) the floor and different materials add capacitance, acting as an extended dialectric. Don't know if that's ture or not, but we definitely agreed we heard improvements, and measured at least some difference....
 
Dec 14, 2007 at 4:19 PM Post #13 of 20

chesebert

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You are right! I ran some test tones and used my SPL meter to measure the difference. I can measure around 3-4dB difference. When I decreased the volume by 3dB on a 1Khz 0dB test tone (Ayre's resistor network is a god sent in precise volume matching), again using SPL to make double check, I found I still noticed a much better dynamics and consequently blacker background playing various recordings.

wow..consistent measurable difference just by raising the cable...which really means the difference between spkr cables can be immense and probably is a good area for me to explore next
wink.gif
 
Dec 14, 2007 at 4:26 PM Post #14 of 20

Uncle Erik

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Are these suggestions from the Mapleshade (Mapleshade Records) catalog? I think their music is pretty good.

I don't use jumpers, but I did elevate my cables with styrofoam cups once. Had some around and thought I'd try it for myself. Did it with the ribbons, as well, since those resolve as well as my headphones do. All the microdetail is there.

So I put the cables up on the cups and the speakers sounded exactly the same. I couldn't tell any difference.
 
Dec 14, 2007 at 4:37 PM Post #15 of 20

chesebert

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lol..I got their catalog and decided to try the free tweaks; damn they worked like charm..I guess I need to buy their cable?
wink.gif


And the sick thing is I can measure the damn difference with the radioshack SPL meter. I think styrofoam cup may not be the best material for raising cables (static electric field issues).
 

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