[audiocroissant]

Trying to decide what to purchase next.

Some info/criteria:

• Dynamic headphone in the mid- to hi-fi category to complement D8000.
• Sought Qualities: dynamic punchiness, good to great resolution, musicality, addictiveness, great imaging / separation, holographic. Wide soundstage is a plus but not a must.
• Not opposed to using EQ
• Open/Close back: can be either, leaning towards open back
• May be able to audition some of the candidate headphones in London Canjam in July or if I visit a headphone store (they are not close to where I live though so not ideal)
• Amp/DAC - Burson Soloist 3XP / Composer 3XP.
  • I have no plans to upgrade my amp and dac anytime soon. I could add a tube preamp (up to 1K) potentially if that is worth doing
• Genres:
  • I listen to a very eclectic mix of genres but my most popular listens are within the following:
  • 1) Rock/Metal 2) Electronic 3) Acoustic/Vocal 4) Pop/Hip-Hop 5) Ambient 6) Jazz
  • It is okay if the headphone is not a master of all and is more specialised in a few of those as D8000 is a pretty good all rounder.

Current Candidate headphones:

• Second-hand Focal Utopia - have a feeling that this will be a great choice given that Focal are known for their "punch and slam". They are supposed to be very detailed and resolving, and are all-rounders. Con: purported small stage and images; "metallic" timbre whatever that means
• ZMF Verite Open/Closed - have read very mixed opinions on those - from the "biggest disappointment/overpriced" to "can't live without them". This makes me think that they are not a very safe purchase and I will need to give them a go before buying which may or may not be possible. On the other hand, they hold their value pretty well it seems.
• ZMF Atrium - the new kid in school. The great soundstage with dynamics makes it really appealing. The concern is that most impressions are from still within the "honeymoon" period. I have been around long enough to see how initial hype settles after a few months to a very different perception so probably it is wise to wait or try them if that is possible.
• Any other suggestions?

I am probably leaning towards getting one of the ZMF offerings but they are recommended with tubes, and I don't have any intentions on spending thousands to get a good tube amp. Wonder what people with more experience with those headphones or other that fit into the criteria

 

[JTbbb]

Do try and listen to the HD800S. I have Utopia’s too, and if I could only keep one, I really don’t know which I would keep.

 

[Monsterzero]

Second-hand Focal Utopia - have a feeling that this will be a great choice given that Focal are known for their "punch and slam". They are supposed to be very detailed and resolving, and are all-rounders. Con: purported small stage and images; "metallic" timbre whatever that means

Metallic flavor to the sound due to 100% Be drivers, can be a bit bright depending upon amp/DAC pairing and music. Stellia is similar, but did not notice any sharpness in the treble or upper mids.

ZMF Verite Open/Closed - have read very mixed opinions on those - from the "biggest disappointment/overpriced" to "can't live without them". This makes me think that they are not a very safe purchase and I will need to give them a go before buying which may or may not be possible. On the other hand, they hold their value pretty well it seems.

Also has Be drivers, like the Utopia, but only coated and about 15% Be, so the metallic flavor is largely gone. Fantastic sounding headphones, but brutal on less than stellar produced or mastered recordings.

ZMF Atrium - the new kid in school. The great soundstage with dynamics makes it really appealing. The concern is that most impressions are from still within the "honeymoon" period. I have been around long enough to see how initial hype settles after a few months to a very different perception so probably it is wise to wait or try them if that is possible.

Yeah, theyre still new, but I know what I hear. Stellar staging up/down, width and front to back. That effect is improved by tubes for sure. More gentle on garbage recordings than VO/VC, not as fast as the Verites. Better mids vs. VO/VC, bass is stupidly good w/ zero bleed in.

Incredible for rock, good on metal with OTL, but better for metal on solid state due to increase in speed, attack and impulse response.

 

[chesebert]

Seems like not a wise use of funds, but whatever. I personally think you got enough headphones and they are all kind of being driven by mediocre electronics.

 

[helljudgement]

I've spend most of my time and money on dynamic driver headphones as that driver type seem to appeal to me the most and these are pretty much the best out for my taste. Whilst all benefit more from a good tube setup it is not mandatory and some do find better success with solid state. Of the headphones you mentioned, I own both ZMFs and spend sizeable amount of time listening to the Utopia on my system. Here's a rough evaluation:

Utopia
- The most technically refined and cleanest sounding of the 3. Top tier in resolving finer details, incredibly visceral and snappy owing to it's speedy driver. Soundstage may seem smaller in width in comparison to the ZMFs but possess pin sharp imaging. Tonally neutral and have the most tendency to sound strident. A somewhat safe buy imo.

Verite
- Similar driver as the Utopia and came close in terms of overall technicalities. A warm and somewhat laidback sounding headphone with loads of details and a deceptively fast sound for its tuning. Doesn't sound like anything else out there and does require a bit of time to acclimate to it's sound. A noticeable depression in it's upper mids makes this a somewhat polarizing headphone.

Atrium
- Mids are more even than the Verite and is one of the more aggresive ZMF tuning you'd find in terms of dynamics. Very smooth tuning with a very tasteful decay which gives off a more natural sounding feel. Definitely on the wider sounding spectrum. Probably a step behind Verite and Utopia in resolving finer details. A richer tone than the aforementioned headphones.

I find Utopia and Atrium works well with the genre you've stated especially with rock. I may prefer the Atrium overall for that genre but as you said it's new and although I've been listening since release it's still hard to tell how it is like to own in the long run. Verite is a riskier pick but very rewarding if you click with it's sound. Utopia is just great but is more reliant source matching else it can sound etch and potentially metallic.

 

[audiocroissant]

I've spend most of my time and money on dynamic driver headphones as that driver type seem to appeal to me the most and these are pretty much the best out for my taste. Whilst all benefit more from a good tube setup it is not mandatory and some do find better success with solid state. Of the headphones you mentioned, I own both ZMFs and spend sizeable amount of time listening to the Utopia on my system. Here's a rough evaluation:

Utopia
- The most technically refined and cleanest sounding of the 3. Top tier in resolving finer details, incredibly visceral and snappy owing to it's speedy driver. Soundstage may seem smaller in width in comparison to the ZMFs but possess pin sharp imaging. Tonally neutral and have the most tendency to sound strident. A somewhat safe buy imo.

Verite
- Similar driver as the Utopia and came close in terms of overall technicalities. A warm and somewhat laidback sounding headphone with loads of details and a deceptively fast sound for its tuning. Doesn't sound like anything else out there and does require a bit of time to acclimate to it's sound. A noticeable depression in it's upper mids makes this a somewhat polarizing headphone.

Atrium
- Mids are more even than the Verite and is one of the more aggresive ZMF tuning you'd find in terms of dynamics. Very smooth tuning with a very tasteful decay which gives off a more natural sounding feel. Definitely on the wider sounding spectrum. Probably a step behind Verite and Utopia in resolving finer details. A richer tone than the aforementioned headphones.

I find Utopia and Atrium works well with the genre you've stated especially with rock. I may prefer the Atrium overall for that genre but as you said it's new and although I've been listening since release it's still hard to tell how it is like to own in the long run. Verite is a riskier pick but very rewarding if you click with it's sound. Utopia is just great but is more reliant source matching else it can sound etch and potentially metallic.

Thank you for your impressions. Interesting. Looks like Atrium becomes more and more appealing on paper. This will be a tough choice!

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Trying to decide what to purchase next.

Some info/criteria:

• Dynamic headphone in the mid- to hi-fi category to complement D8000.
• Sought Qualities: dynamic punchiness, good to great resolution, musicality, addictiveness, great imaging / separation, holographic. Wide soundstage is a plus but not a must.
• Not opposed to using EQ
• Open/Close back: can be either, leaning towards open back
• May be able to audition some of the candidate headphones in London Canjam in July or if I visit a headphone store (they are not close to where I live though so not ideal)
• Amp/DAC - Burson Soloist 3XP / Composer 3XP.
  • I have no plans to upgrade my amp and dac anytime soon. I could add a tube preamp (up to 1K) potentially if that is worth doing
• Genres:
  • I listen to a very eclectic mix of genres but my most popular listens are within the following:
  • 1) Rock/Metal 2) Electronic 3) Acoustic/Vocal 4) Pop/Hip-Hop 5) Ambient 6) Jazz
  • It is okay if the headphone is not a master of all and is more specialised in a few of those as D8000 is a pretty good all rounder.

Current Candidate headphones:

• Second-hand Focal Utopia - have a feeling that this will be a great choice given that Focal are known for their "punch and slam". They are supposed to be very detailed and resolving, and are all-rounders. Con: purported small stage and images; "metallic" timbre whatever that means
• ZMF Verite Open/Closed - have read very mixed opinions on those - from the "biggest disappointment/overpriced" to "can't live without them". This makes me think that they are not a very safe purchase and I will need to give them a go before buying which may or may not be possible. On the other hand, they hold their value pretty well it seems.
• ZMF Atrium - the new kid in school. The great soundstage with dynamics makes it really appealing. The concern is that most impressions are from still within the "honeymoon" period. I have been around long enough to see how initial hype settles after a few months to a very different perception so probably it is wise to wait or try them if that is possible.
• Any other suggestions?

I am probably leaning towards getting one of the ZMF offerings but they are recommended with tubes, and I don't have any intentions on spending thousands to get a good tube amp. Wonder what people with more experience with those headphones or other that fit into the criteria

With your taste requirement, if you switch jazz as first and rock as sixth, then I easily pick utopia.

However, many rock recordings are actually not really great, and Utopia will brutally kill enjoyment here. Verite Open is headphone that I own since 2 years ago, excellent for many genres, including rock and jazz. However, to achieve the ultimate resolution for excellent recording of jazz songs, utopia is still better (but also harder to matching the set up synergy).

Don't worry about tube amp, Verite works really well with most of SS amplifier. Burson GT is my most fav SS amp for Verite.

Haven't heard Atrium, can't comment on this.

 

[audiocroissant]

Seems like not a wise use of funds, but whatever. I personally think you got enough headphones and they are all kind of being driven by mediocre electronics.

I am actually selling a good number of my headphones so I will be down to D8000 and a good dynamic headphone
I am convinced that there are dynamic headphones that will sound great on Soloist 3X. I don't see a point in getting super expensive amp and DAC yet. In the audio hobby all is temporary, I will likely end up getting more higher end gear, in due time.

 

[audiocroissant]

Metallic flavor to the sound due to 100% Be drivers, can be a bit bright depending upon amp/DAC pairing and music. Stellia is similar, but did not notice any sharpness in the treble or upper mids.



Also has Be drivers, like the Utopia, but only coated and about 15% Be, so the metallic flavor is largely gone. Fantastic sounding headphones, but brutal on less than stellar produced or mastered recordings.



Yeah, theyre still new, but I know what I hear. Stellar staging up/down, width and front to back. That effect is improved by tubes for sure. More gentle on garbage recordings than VO/VC, not as fast as the Verites. Better mids vs. VO/VC, bass is stupidly good w/ zero bleed in.

Incredible for rock, good on metal with OTL, but better for metal on solid state due to increase in speed, attack and impulse response.

How would you compare the sense of dynamics between Utopia and Atrium? Which one has the better punch/slam? Are they on par?

 

[audiocroissant]

Do try and listen to the HD800S. I have Utopia’s too, and if I could only keep one, I really don’t know which I would keep.

HD800s always intrigued me but I have a feeling that it won't do very well with my preferred genres but would be absolutely amazing with others. I think that I am destined to own it one day though.

 

[Monsterzero]

How would you compare the sense of dynamics between Utopia and Atrium? Which one has the better punch/slam? Are they on par?

Man, its been years since I heard the Utopia, so I cannot really give you an accurate response. What I can say is I'm using the Auteur lambskin pads on the Atrium, which are not the bassiest pads, and I'm getting plenty of slam, deep, prominent sub bass rumble and an absurd holographic stage.

If you're new to ZMF headphones, you need to know that the various pads ZMF makes make a dramatic difference in how each model can sound. Its almost like having 6 headphones in one.

 

[JTbbb]

HD800s always intrigued me but I have a feeling that it won't do very well with my preferred genres but would be absolutely amazing with others. I think that I am destined to own it one day though.

They tend to get overlooked nowadays but I would recommend trying a pair.

 

[helljudgement]

How would you compare the sense of dynamics between Utopia and Atrium? Which one has the better punch/slam? Are they on par?

I'd say they are on par but for different reasons. Both slams like a truck and feels visceral. The Utopia driver is lightning quick which result in a faster snap while the Atrium has longer note sustain. The Atrium feels heftier with a more satisfying decay(imo) and sounds more natural for instruments like drums. The Utopia does sound like it extends a bit lower into sub. The Verite falls pretty much in between the two.

I personally gravitate towards the Atrium when it comes to dynamics and slam but for what it's worth they are all within range of each other and you won't find slam a weakness for any of them.

 

[Empyah]

I am actually selling a good number of my headphones so I will be down to D8000 and a good dynamic headphone
I am convinced that there are dynamic headphones that will sound great on Soloist 3X. I don't see a point in getting super expensive amp and DAC yet. In the audio hobby all is temporary, I will likely end up getting more higher end gear, in due time.

Edit: Copied it to the Verite thread (more fitting).

 

[Failed Engineer]

I came across this thread looking for specific Atrium pad information but I'll say, as a big fan of the D8000P and now owner of Atrium for about a month, these two are not necessarily compliments. They are largely both good in the same way, and the OG D8000 is probably even closer to the Atrium. Never having heard the OG D8000, I'd wager the Atrium is a dynamic take on the D8000 and vis versa.

I'd opt for a second hand Utopia for a complement and different sound. It hits all your priorities as well.