1212m vs. AV710 comparisons?? (Also, TDA1543 DAC)

[comabereni]

After six months reading probably everything on this site describing and comparing video cards, I'm unable to come to any firm conclusions about what separates these two cards--the EMU-1212m and the Chaintech AV710. The listening impressions I've read seem to indicate the two have similar sonics.

I'm pretty happy with my PC/home office rig: AV710 --> Millett hybrid amp --> Sonic Impact T-amp. I like the AV710's neutral (boring?) signature warmed up a bit in the mid's and ramped up a little before sending it to the overperforming T-amp. I'm pretty sure you would be impressed too, especially for how little it cost.

But now I've a little extra money to burn and was curious how the 1212m might sound compared with what I'm enjoying presently. I'm pretty sure the 0404 would be a bit too lively/forward/energetic for my taste and musical preferences (mostly jazz, choral, classical, but also a little new age, electronica, rock and pop). I've considered the Benchmark DAC, but it's a little beyond my present budget--still recovering from a year of massive spending.

Finally, I'm hearing good things about the TDA1543 non-oversampling jitter-reducing/timing DAC. It might be interesting to insert between my AV710 and hybrid head/pre-amp. Anyone here hear a 1543 non-OS DAC yet?

Iron_Dreamer keeps discouraging all my upgrade plans with his Benchmark DAC reviews. Curse you Iron_Dreamer

.

-coma

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by comabereni After six months reading probably everything on this site describing and comparing video cards, I'm unable to come to any firm conclusions about what separates these two cards--the EMU-1212m and the Chaintech AV710. The listening impressions I've read seem to indicate the two have similar sonics. I'm pretty happy with my PC/home office rig: AV710 --> Millett hybrid amp --> Sonic Impact T-amp. I like the AV710's neutral (boring?) signature warmed up a bit in the mid's and ramped up a little before sending it to the overperforming T-amp. I'm pretty sure you would be impressed too, especially for how little it cost. But now I've a little extra money to burn and was curious how the 1212m might sound compared with what I'm enjoying presently. I'm pretty sure the 0404 would be a bit too lively/forward/energetic for my taste and musical preferences (mostly jazz, choral, classical, but also a little new age, electronica, rock and pop). I've considered the Benchmark DAC, but it's a little beyond my present budget--still recovering from a year of massive spending. Finally, I'm hearing good things about the TDA1543 non-oversampling jitter-reducing/timing DAC. It might be interesting to insert between my AV710 and hybrid head/pre-amp. Anyone here hear a 1543 non-OS DAC yet? Iron_Dreamer keeps discouraging all my upgrade plans with his Benchmark DAC reviews. Curse you Iron_Dreamer . -coma

The chaintech is nowhere near the E-MU series of soundcards for analogue output quality. I would go for the 1212m if you love detail and smoothness (like me). I'm sure you've read everything about the 0404, so your familiar with the differences, I have heard both, and I prefer the 1212m. Also I noticed you have Grado's, I am a Sennheiser fan, and in a way, the 1212m/0404 can almost be compared in a simliar fashion.

 

[comabereni]

Asmo:

I think that's where I am--somewhere between a 1212m/modded-1212m and an external DAC. I get the impression there's not much better sounding by way of soundcards (only more features) once you get to the 1212m/1820m other than a good DAC.

 

[recca]

I'm also unsure what upgrade path I should take right now. I have a AV710 and its pretty good. To the point where I don't think upgrading wil make a difference, but then again what fun would that be! I'm in between the 0404 and 1212.

Also, I've heard that the Lynx L22 is also one of the best sound cards out right now:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...ic.php?t=15994

 

[Enverxis]

Ive got an EMU 1212M and it is a smooth sounding card, it also has a nice wide soundstage and nice instrument seperation aswell as brings those little noises out from the background to say hello (ie. Bass guitar strings and high hats that were otherwise inaudible)

the 0404 Is supposed to be the more fun sounding card, slightly compressed soundstage, bass heavy with more punch, better seperation, more forward and better vocals? : Considered by some/more than some as the better sounding card out of the two.

Just be happy which ever one you get - I dont think anyone could be dissappointed with either

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by comabereni Asmo: I think that's where I am--somewhere between a 1212m/modded-1212m and an external DAC. I get the impression there's not much better sounding by way of soundcards (only more features) once you get to the 1212m/1820m other than a good DAC.

That's right, other sound cards like the RME HDSP3296 and Lynx Two are also very great cards, you could mod a 1212m and get even more performance, or go all out with a DAC1 or Bel Canto.

I honestly don't think many people here on head-fi have even compared the 1212m to the 0404, most people choose the 0404 because its cheaper, and gets good reviews. I bought my 1212m for $165 when we did a group buy a long time ago, and this winter I spent some time with a 0404 to compare, and If I liked the 0404 I would of kept it and sold the 1212m for the cost of the 0404 easily, but the 1212m is imho the better card all around. To say the 0404 has more slam, forwardness, impact, etc is marginally true, but not that does not imply that the 1212m lacks any of those features either. I find the 1212m more natural, detailed, and smooth, only downside to the 1212m to me is vocals can sometimes be a little 'dry'. But, at half the cost of the 1212m, it is sometimes very hard to justify twice the price for maybe 25% extra performance. Then again, hi-fi is all about paying out the *** for tiny improvements

 

[Enverxis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asmo only downside to the 1212m to me is vocals can sometimes be a little 'dry'.

I agree Wholeheartedly

If the 1212M had lush vocals, Id never listen to another source

 

[recca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverxis I agree Wholeheartedly If the 1212M had lush vocals, Id never listen to another source

Just wondering, how much of this is based on the hardware and how much based on the media? Is this based on mp3, FLAC, WAV, AIFF playback? Not flaming, just wondering. I have a lot of mp3's and FLAC so I'm curious if money would be better spent on an Ack! that may be richer sounding.

 

[Enverxis]

Ive never heard the Ack! Dack so I couldnt tell you.

I only use FLAC really, i have mp3s but theyre there just to remind me of which CDs i need to buy

Im hoping modding the 1212M will fix this

(OPA2227s, Black Gate NX HiQs and some other stuff and ill be able to say)

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverxis Ive never heard the Ack! Dack so I couldnt tell you. I only use FLAC really, i have mp3s but theyre there just to remind me of which CDs i need to buy Im hoping modding the 1212M will fix this (OPA2227s, Black Gate NX HiQs and some other stuff and ill be able to say)

Let us know what you think, I am very curious in possible mods for my 1212m.

The Ack! Dack 2.0 just came out, there is a good thread about it in the dedicated source forum, suppose to be pretty good, it is still very new though, will wait awhile for more reviews.

And of course we all use FLAC here

 

[comabereni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enverxis If the 1212M had lush vocals, Id never listen to another source

I suspect the Millett hybrid amp I use would restore the lushness to the 1212m's otherwise dry vocals. It certainly improves on both the AV710's native sonics as well as the T-amp's, and everyone raves about the T-amp's sound qualities--which I find a little dry and uninvolving alone (I'm speaking of my home office speaker setup, not headphones).

I'd actually be very surprised if a 1212m walked all over my current combination of components, but it's fun to explore new options when you can. The main thing holding me back is the possibility that a DAC like the Benchmark would be worth planning for instead. I must admit that spending 5x the cost of a 1212m for marginal, even if noticeable, improvements is a tough call.

Having said that, I am now thinking a modded 1212m makes the most sense to hold me over until I finish my Dynahi, then perhaps the Benchmark DAC1 would make for a more suitable combo.

-coma