[godbreath]

i just got my audioengine a2, and they sound great, but they're a bit lacking in the bass department. I just want a subwoofer to add that extra thump that im looking for. I mainly use the a2's for movies when friends come over. Otherwise, I have my hd650's for music. My room is relatively small (typical 10'x8' college dorm), and I need help deciding on what type of subwoofer to buy.

So far all i know is that i should buy a crossover filter so that it can separate the low and high frequencies to make sure that only the subwoofer plays the low ones and my audioengines play the others. I think some subs come with this feature built in? Like you can plug the line in into the sub, and the sub will filter out the high frequencies and you plug in your speakers into the sub?

Also, whats the difference between down facing and front facing subwoofers? Which would be better if I were to place the sub under my desk?

And lastly, how big of a subwoofer should i be looking for? I'm guessing somewhere around the 8" range?

 

[genclaymore]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=300-631 Dayton Sub80 goes for 94$. This the only one i know of off the top of my head other then the polk audio sub thats under 100 dollars.

 

[LUCIDD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by godbreath /img/forum/go_quote.gif i just got my audioengine a2, and they sound great, but they're a bit lacking in the bass department. I just want a subwoofer to add that extra thump that im looking for. I mainly use the a2's for movies when friends come over. Otherwise, I have my hd650's for music. My room is relatively small (typical 10'x8' college dorm), and I need help deciding on what type of subwoofer to buy. So far all i know is that i should buy a crossover filter so that it can separate the low and high frequencies to make sure that only the subwoofer plays the low ones and my audioengines play the others. I think some subs come with this feature built in? Like you can plug the line in into the sub, and the sub will filter out the high frequencies and you plug in your speakers into the sub? Also, whats the difference between down facing and front facing subwoofers? Which would be better if I were to place the sub under my desk? And lastly, how big of a subwoofer should i be looking for? I'm guessing somewhere around the 8" range?

Yeah, I have the A2... and connects to my 8" yamaha sub very easily. This sub use to be part of my buddy's HT system. It's decent... not very loud, but it doesn't need to be when hooked up to these speakers.
Unfortunately, you'd need a low frequency filter... I believe some preamps would be able to do this. It needs to take signal from your computer to the preamp - then preamp out to A2 and subwoofer.

Currently, the way my setup is: - the A2's are playing everything... sending a signal to the sub... and the sub is helping with the low frequencies only - I have the sub's low frequency cut-off at about 70hz or so... since the A2's play down to 68hz.

The difference between front firing and rear firing subs are somewhat undefined. It all depends on how the whole box is designed. I'd say that if you compare the same make like 2 klipsch subs -one front one downward firing - then the ront firing sub is smaller, and has punchier bass. The downward firing sub is somewhat lower rumbling - sometimes boomier. I'd go with a frontfiring sub if it is under your desk.
Hope this helps!

 

[godbreath]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUCIDD /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I have the A2... and connects to my 8" yamaha sub very easily. This sub use to be part of my buddy's HT system. It's decent... not very loud, but it doesn't need to be when hooked up to these speakers. Unfortunately, you'd need a low frequency filter... I believe some preamps would be able to do this. It needs to take signal from your computer to the preamp - then preamp out to A2 and subwoofer. Currently, the way my setup is: - the A2's are playing everything... sending a signal to the sub... and the sub is helping with the low frequencies only - I have the sub's low frequency cut-off at about 70hz or so... since the A2's play down to 68hz. The difference between front firing and rear firing subs are somewhat undefined. It all depends on how the whole box is designed. I'd say that if you compare the same make like 2 klipsch subs -one front one downward firing - then the ront firing sub is smaller, and has punchier bass. The downward firing sub is somewhat lower rumbling - sometimes boomier. I'd go with a frontfiring sub if it is under your desk. Hope this helps!

so then you have the audioengines playing the whole spectrum including the bass,, and then the subwoofer is just playing the low frequencies? i thought it was bad if you have your main speakers and your sub playing the same frequencies, so thats why i wanted to put in a filter before it gets into the audioengines.

 

[anwaypasible]

Quote:

Originally Posted by godbreath /img/forum/go_quote.gif so then you have the audioengines playing the whole spectrum including the bass,, and then the subwoofer is just playing the low frequencies? i thought it was bad if you have your main speakers and your sub playing the same frequencies, so thats why i wanted to put in a filter before it gets into the audioengines.

you are correct.
you dont want your speakers working harder than they should because you can get more detail out of the speaker when it isnt being over-worked.

moving on,
one solid difference between front firing subs and down firing subs depends on whether the down firing sub has a plate at the bottom.
some have plates to prevent the sub from firing directly into carpet, which helps disperse details in the sound.

another reason down firing subs are made is to help flatten their frequency response.
you can choose a speaker and then build a box at a specific size for half of the frequency range.. then adjust the height of the sub box from the floor to achieve the other half of the frequency range at the same decibel level.
this is essentially exactly what a bandpass box is supposed to be designed to do.. the port just blasts out both frequency responses and they are perceived as one long, solid 'loudness' despite which note you play.

they say bass frequencies are non-directional and that isnt entirely true.
in an open space - the further away from a speaker you are, the harder it is to hear the speaker.
that is a fact that cannot be altered.
a 'trick' or 'method' that is used to produce more 'loudness' from farther away is to place the speaker cone down towards the floor (with a hard surface) so the sound spreads out equally in all directions..... then you put the speaker box kinda close to a wall so the soundwaves bounce off the wall - which creates a 'double' or 'amplification' affect that helps your ears hear the bass from far away.

in general though, you will lose details in the clarity of the subwoofer when you bounce the soundwaves off a wall.
such a situation requires a DSP processor to manipulate the soundwaves to compensate for bouncing off of a wall or hard surface.

and that is the only real reason to purchase a down firing subwoofer.
you also want to avoid purchasing a front firing subwoofer with a port that is going to be blasting air directly into a wall.
subwoofers in this type of situation always sound extremely boomy and because the soundwaves are bouncing off the wall, the result is muddy sound instead of clear detailed pronunciation (unless your sub has a DSP processor to compensate sound reflections)

you also want to avoid a front firing subwoofer that has front ports that are releasing air in opposite phase of the speaker cone, because the result is two soundwaves that cancel eachother out and therefore the audible output is going to be very weak.

in your exact situation,
i would suggest a front firing / rear ported subwoofer that has a variable phase adjustment.
dont confuse variable phase adjustment with a 0 / 180 degree switch.
you can simply reverse the wires if you want to change the phase like that.
what you want is a variable phase switch that allows you to select any degree of phase between 0 and 180 degrees of offset.

then put the sub under the desk and face the speaker cone towards a hard surface, such as a wall of the desk or a wall of the room.
then you need to adjust the variable phase until you can hear the most details from the sub while it is playing.

chances are, the results will go from loud / boomy / obnoxious to a lite and more detailed sound OR the sound will go from lite and hard to hear the details because the soundwaves are too busy canceling eachother out, to a rich loud and detailed 'shout'
usually the box the speaker is in will have a substantial meaning as to which way the difference will swing.
but dont be afraid to flip the speaker wires around and try again because you might be able to change the 'lite with details' to a 'shout with details'
and the reason this is possible is because the speaker in the specific size box automatically puts the soundwaves at a degree of phase.

say for example you buy a sub and the phase of the speaker in the box is 40 degrees.
when you adjust the variable phase knob.. at zero, the results are 40 degrees.
and then you start adjusting the phase towards 180, but you have to constantly add the original 40 degrees.
finally, if your sub would sound best at 20 degrees, you need to flip the speaker wires around (put the positive wire on negative terminal) and then put the knob at 0 which equals -40 degrees.
then you simply adjust the variable phase knob to 60 degrees because -40 + 60 = 20

variable phase knobs are used in situations described above.
you are supposed to turn the knob until you get the most details out of the subwoofer at the listening position.

 

[LUCIDD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by godbreath /img/forum/go_quote.gif so then you have the audioengines playing the whole spectrum including the bass,, and then the subwoofer is just playing the low frequencies? i thought it was bad if you have your main speakers and your sub playing the same frequencies, so thats why i wanted to put in a filter before it gets into the audioengines.

Well, The Audioengine A2's only respond to 58hz +-2db... so by the time you get any lower than that, like 50hz - it's really not outputting much.

So all I'd have to do is set my sub to start playing at about 50-58hz. This is fine... This means that the really is not much of the frequency range that both the sub and a2 are playing at the same time.

You would need a filter only if you want the A2's not to play anything below lets say about 80hz - as you want your sub to play everything below 80hz.

If anything, having the A2's go as low as it possibly can means you are maximizing the usage of these fine speakers.

Ps. a little bit of "blending" - meaning the A2's and the sub playing the same frequencies: about 5-10hz of blending is OK...

 

[anwaypasible]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUCIDD /img/forum/go_quote.gif If anything, having the A2's go as low as it possibly can means you are maximizing the usage of these fine speakers.

i suspect that your advisor is referring to the cone going 'in' or 'out' as much as possible = maximizing the usage of the 'fine' speakers

the reason you are enjoying 'audiophile' speakers is because those speakers are capable of doing more than one thing at once.
(actually numbers reaching numbers like 30 things at once)
a speaker capable of multi-tasking gives a sense of depth and instrument/vocal seperation.

forcing a speaker to do more than it is designed for will result in a loss of transient output.

i'm quite suprised to see anyone argue this fact.
if you have ever had a chance to experience 6x9 speakers in the rear deck of a vehicle.. you will note that turning the bass all the way up on the radio will drown out the vocals and treble.
not because the bass is louder than anything else, but because the speaker isnt capable of producing all that bass and keep up with the vocals and treble.
since the bass level is all the way up, you are giving the speaker no choice but to pay closer attention to the bass.

your speakers are either losing transient ability or losing depth or coloring the sound.

my peerless midranges have PHYSICALLY about an inch or inch anda half of excursion ability before the rubber surround prevents any further movement.
but when i am listening to those speakers, they move less than 1 millimeter unless i have the volume up really loud and i'm playing some club bangin' track.. then the speakers move about 3 or 4 millimeters.

i know speakers have come a long way, and i also know that there is much better designs to be had that are ready to be manufactured and not yet released to the public.

asking for the full range of the frequency response from a single speaker is a lot to ask.. which is why there have been 2-way and 3-way crossovers around for ages.

audio is a very prompt and successful criteria.. especially considering the only thing that is going to allow us to hear aliens in space are speakers.
i dont think anything is going to shout loud enough for us to hear it from space.
that means there are design teams working around the clock to make speakers as best as humanly possible.


but dont take this too hard, because i was once targeted as mediocre for having my subwoofers crossed over at 100hz for music from the band 'no doubt'

 

[Operandi]

Yeah, you really don't want a small speaker like the A2s playing any lower than they have to. You'll just be getting more distortion the loud and lower you try to push them.

You can use the Reckhorn F-1 to cross the A2s to any subwoofer.

 

[LUCIDD]

"forcing a speaker to do more than it is designed for will result in a loss of transient output.

i'm quite suprised to see anyone argue this fact."


I'm not arguing this fact. I'll agree that having an electronic crossover like the mentioned Reckhorn will be better: better in improving overall sound quality out of the A2 and subwoofer.

I do apologize if I came across arguing this fact. I'll stand corrected.
... But - within context: of the OP's question for adding a subwoofer to the A2's for $100: I was merely stating that it is possible to add a sub [within budget] to the A2's without a crossover and NOT have both A2's and Sub play the same frequencies without* a crossover.
---Does the OP have a budget in mind for this setup? -YES [seems so anyways]
---Will adding a Sub increase overall performance without having frequency repetition between the A2's and sub? -YES
---Should the crossover be considered because it improves sound quality EVEN MORE? - YES

As I know that I'm quite satisfied with my setup without the crossover... I'm just sharing this fact. I have considered a crossover myself when I added my Yamaha sub to the A2... but currently, my wallet is not yet agreeing - will it agree soon? -probably. Until then, the sub is helping the A2's immensely and I think it sounds decent.

The A2's are good "fine" speakers, not perfect, but "fine" for their price and size and sq--- there are only a few others. Are there better ones for sound? -YES
A5 or Swan or Focal or KRK monitors are being considered next - sometime in near future

 

[bumbabeef]

I've been looking for a way to add a sub to my swans. Can I use the reckhorn with my Nuforce udac or Ibasso d10.

 

[Operandi]

Quote:

I've been looking for a way to add a sub to my swans. Can I use the reckhorn with my Nuforce udac or Ibasso d10.

Yeah you can pretty much use the Reckhorn with anything that has analog (audio) out.

 

[RAJOD]

I dont think the A2s will do well below 120-100hz range.   No way they can do 80 well.    Need a sub that can go up to 100hz or you will have a hole in the sound.

 

[Nobbygon]

I find myself in a similar position. I'm looking to add a sub to my swan m200mkiii and xonar stx but due to limited connectivity options on the sub I'm looking at (hsu stf-2) I'm finding it difficult.

The two options that I'm aware of that are possible would be to split the signal from the stx using y splitters but then I would loose the crossover option on the sub.

Or

Use something like the reckhorn f-1 and send the signals out using that.

Is this correct? I'm still getting my head around connecting various audio equipment up.