UpTone Audio USB REGEN
Apr 14, 2015 at 8:14 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 1,138

jtwrace

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This is a very exciting product that has just been released.  I'm really excited to say that I have one coming and hope to have it by the weekend.  I also have one of UpTone Audio's JS-2 LPS.  These two products are designed by the amazing John Swenson.  
 
Below is from the UpTone Audio website which you can see here and pre-order the REGEN ($175) from if you are interested.  
 
 
 
The UpTone Audio USB REGEN just might be the next big leap for computer audio.

The USB REGEN takes the digital audio stream from your computer or other music streaming device, and generates a completely new USB data signal to feed to your DAC.  It accomplishes this by combining a carefully chosen USB hub chip with an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock.  Importantly, it does so with ideal impedance matching—right at the input of your DAC.

If you are familiar with the variations in sound quality that come from different computer configurations, USB cables, and power supplies (no, "bits are bits" really does not apply when pursuing the audio summit), then you will immediately recognize the often dramatic effect that the REGEN can have on the the connection you feel with the music.

Although the REGEN does not eliminate all sound quality differences between USB cables in a high-end system, it significantly reduces those differences. John Swenson has written about how the PHY chips and processors at the input of every USB DAC (even those with galvanic isolation) are sensitive to "packet noise modulation" and ground-plane noise—caused by poor signal integrity and impedance mis-matching.  Every USB audio source (computer or streamer) and cable causes this, every DAC is affected by this—andthe REGEN is the cure.

The USB REGEN's secondary function is that it disconnects the computer's noisy 5 volt bus power coming down the USB cable, and provides clean 5VBUS on its output--for DACs that need it—via a second ultra low-noise regulator.

From all the time we have spent listening to the REGEN in our systems we can say that it is exceeding our expectations. Often it sounds like you are listening to a different DAC!Of course the benefit will vary with each computer/DAC system, but we hear positive differences even with very modest systems. The improvement is different than with a power supply or computer optimizations—but perhaps larger.


Regardless of whether you are feeding your USB DAC from a from a stock computer, a fully-optimized music server, or a streamer/renderer (Auralic Aries, Bryston, Moon Audio, SOtM sMS-100, etc.), the REGEN has the potential to carry your music system to a new level.

The USB REGEN kit includes:

a) the REGEN itself in an all black with silver-printed aluminum case (57 x 46 x 18mm); Input is USB 'B' jack, Output is USB 'A' jack, DC jack is 5.5mm x 2.1mm.

b) the best spec'ed and sounding 22 watt/7.5V/2.93A (overkill) tabletop (93 x 54 x 36mm) world-voltage-compatible SMPS we could find (use a nice linear if you want—in the range of 6-9V/1.5A is fine; or even 12V if you are certain that your DAC is not deriving much power from USB bus); If you own an UpTone JS-2 LPS, then you can consider using one of its outputs—set to 7V—to power the REGEN very nicely!

c) an 18-inch long Volex 18awg power cord to go from the SMPS to the wall (get fancy if you like, or if you are overseas use a power cord with locally appropriate plug);

d) a male/male USB A/B solid adapter plug (for hanging the REGEN right from the back of your DAC; maybe stick a block of something under it if you feel it needs support);

e) a 6-inch male/male USB A>B cable if things are too tight around your DAC's USB input or you just don't want to use the solid adapter.

f) a 4-year, transferrable warranty.

 







 

 
Apr 15, 2015 at 6:35 PM Post #2 of 1,138
I'm surprised nobody is interested in this product.  It has the makings to be a massive breakthrough.  
 
Apr 16, 2015 at 5:29 PM Post #3 of 1,138
My Regen arrives on Saturday.  
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Apr 16, 2015 at 8:23 PM Post #4 of 1,138
My Regen arrives on Saturday.  
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Can't wait to hear your impressions.
 
At the moment, I don't use computers for my source.  But at this time last year, I didn't use a desktop amp.  And now I have a peachtree integrated amp, and I have a Unison Research headphone amp on order.  So who knows where I'll be this time next year.  
 
Money suckin' hobby...  
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Apr 16, 2015 at 8:52 PM Post #5 of 1,138
  Can't wait to hear your impressions.
 
At the moment, I don't use computers for my source.  But at this time last year, I didn't use a desktop amp.  And now I have a peachtree integrated amp, and I have a Unison Research headphone amp on order.  So who knows where I'll be this time next year.  
 
Money suckin' hobby...  
gs1000.gif

haha.  Yes, this hobby (like my others) tends to take my money.  
 
Apr 16, 2015 at 8:53 PM Post #6 of 1,138
John Swenson, the designer, was asked about the design compared to the Schitt.  Below is from John Swenson said.
 
 
 
The Wyrd and the regen are conceptually similar from an upper level standpoint, they are very different in implementation and motivation for the development. 

From reading what Schiit has posted it seems that their motivation was providing a clean power supply and secondly regenerating the data, whereas my motivation was providing the highest signal quality I could, and secondly providing very clean power. 

Some of the differences are:
The regen has a much lower jitter clock feeding the hub chip, which will provide lower jitter on the data.

The regen uses a 4 layer board, primarily to allow a proper impedance match. With a standard thickness 2 layer board it is impossible to attain a proper impedance match to the hub chip. The pins on the chip are small and close together, this necessitates very thin board traces, with a two layer board the distance between ground plane and these traces (BTW this is called a differential micro-strip configuration) produce an impedance that is much greater than the spec. With a four layer board the ground plane can be much closer to the top layer which allows for appropriate impedance with the very narrow traces. The regen also uses SMD USB jacks which allow for appropriate trace width and spacing to continue the impedance matching through to the USB jacks. The result of this is that there will be very minimal reflections at the regen side. Even if the DAC does not have good impedance matching (which is pretty common) which WILL cause a reflection at the DAC end, it will be absorbed at the regen because of the proper impedance matching.

The regen has a frequncy optimized Power Delivery network (PDN), which turns out to make a very significant improvement in SQ. This is quite a technical subject, WAY beyond what I can post here, but here is the mile high summary:

In order to properly respond to the load variations of what the supply is powering, it needs to have a low impedance over a very broad range of frequencies. For digital audio this is from low Hz to hundreds of Mhz range. The entire supply flow from mains AC to board layout and capacitors on the board play a role in getting this right. 

The regen is what got me focusing in on this. I was testing the first prototype and was seeing some noise on the supply right at the hub chip power pins that shouldn't be there. After a lot of detective work I traced it down to some frequency ranges of the PDN that were much higher impedance than they should be. I included a fix for this in the second version. With this I couldn't detect the noise any more, and it sounded much better, but Alex was still not super thrilled with the SQ. I then did a mathematical analysis of the PDN and found another frequency range that had a higher impedance than it should, made a fix for this, and sent the result to Alex, he was thrilled, this was much better than anything he had heard before. 

This process of frequency optimizing the PDN is something that is done in expensive high speed network equipment, but is almost never done in consumer products, especially audio equipment. But the experience with the regen seems to point to this being quite important for digital audio. I have subsequently tried some of this on some DACs and seen marked improvement in SQ, so it looks like this might be a significant area to look into.

The whole reason I started thinking about a regen was the USBcable threads, after a lot of experimentation and thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that the signal integrity at the DACwas what was probably the difference between cables. Thus a device designed to regenerate the data signals. Because the whole purpose was to regenerate the signals that the cables were messing up, the regen device had to be right at the input to theDAC, thus it needed to be small and low weight. 

One un-anticipated benefit to the frequency optimized PDN, is that the noise on the VBUS output is much less sensitive to load transients than other implementations. So if the DAC IS bus powered, that brings even more improvement.

Well there it is, the primary reasons the regen hasa better implementation than other devices.

John S.
 
Apr 17, 2015 at 5:58 PM Post #8 of 1,138
Out of stock until the end of May! It was going to be an impulse buy, so I suppose it will give me time to wait for others to get their's and give some feedback at least.

Yeah, the first 100 sold out in about 24 hrs.  I'd still recommend getting on the list soon once some reviews come.  The reviews will start to come this weekend I'm sure.  Mine arrives tomorrow...
 
Apr 17, 2015 at 11:06 PM Post #9 of 1,138
Yeah, the first 100 sold out in about 24 hrs.  I'd still recommend getting on the list soon once some reviews come.  The reviews will start to come this weekend I'm sure.  Mine arrives tomorrow...


Good to know that the reviews are not too far away. Yeah, I agree, I was hoping to still get on ASAP as I'm sure this batch will sell quickly too. I'll keep an out for your review. Thanks! :)
 
Apr 18, 2015 at 3:12 PM Post #10 of 1,138
My REGEN has arrived and is playing!  
 
Yes, it's small!  

 
As always with UpTone Audio, very professional packing.  

 
Rear view of it installed in my AURALiC Vega.  

 
Apr 18, 2015 at 9:10 PM Post #11 of 1,138
OK, I've been listening non-stop since this little gem arrived today. I did leave for dinner and even set the Tivo for the UFC fights. I've been really confused as I really didn't know what to say other than it's good and I like it. I've been listening to all kinds of material and the normal stuff actually sounded mo better. What was weird was that I actually listen to stuff that I like, not just well recorded stuff. These particular tracks aren't recorded all that well but with the REGEN actually sound good. Then I put on Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" in DSD and tried the same test with/without the REGEN. The best way to describe it for me is that there is less distortion. It's bizarre. The guitar riff at the beginning sounds almost f'd up without the REGEN and then you put it in and it sounds like something just got fixed. It's really strange but it's staying in my system. In fact, I think I need to order one for my Micro iDSD system. Yikes! Oh but first I need to do something...I'll report back if I'm able to get what I think could be useful for all. Give me a few weeks. 

Bottom line, go order your REGEN from batch #2 due at the end of May. I'd be shocked if you didn't like it.
 
Apr 18, 2015 at 10:31 PM Post #12 of 1,138
Ordered!
Will couple with Corning USB Optic Cable
 
Apr 18, 2015 at 11:22 PM Post #13 of 1,138
Corning USB Optic Cable
 
do those only come in 10m lengths? how do they sound?

thanks,
 
 
Apr 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM Post #14 of 1,138
Yes, the shortest they have is 10m.  Nobody has tried the REGEN with one yet though...
 
http://www.corning.com/opcomm/OpticalCablesbyCorning/products/USB-3.Optical.aspx
 
Apr 18, 2015 at 11:42 PM Post #15 of 1,138
  Corning USB Optic Cable
 
do those only come in 10m lengths? how do they sound?

thanks,
 

without going in deep, here a really simple explanation reported from another board:
 
"it should be solvable by effective isolation of the USB signal and clean + 5 v and ground. I took a look under the hood of a decrapifier but was not convinced that RF could not make it across the unit. i do think there is a good chance that the Corning optical USB feeding into the upcoming Uptone Regen will achieve a good result. With this combination there will be full optical isolation of the data, the data will be reclocked and retransmited by the USB receiver friendly PHY in the Regen, and clean 5 v will be supplied. The DAC 's USB receiver will not be hearing the PHY of the Corning cable."
 
Hope this helps...
 

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