Sony HAP-Z1ES. New High-Res Streamer/Music Server from Sony
Aug 14, 2016 at 1:49 PM Post #46 of 111
I was getting ready to buy this awesome looking machine but it has no digital output to run to my MSB DAC. I can't imagine the Sony's internal DAC surpassing my MBS.  I might buy it just to try it from a retailer that offers returns.  If it sounds better than my Fiio X-5 feeding the MBS DAC,  I can sell the MBS.
 
Any alternatives with a digital out?
 
Any thoughts / opinions
 
Thanks
 
Aug 14, 2016 at 6:02 PM Post #47 of 111
You have to think of the HAP-Z1ES  'as a whole' to extract maximum performance. Just like a race car, every little thing you do to it "will" change its performance ... yes including a SSD. What unique about the Z1 is that it's a total digital solution, no computer, no cables, no nonsense required. 
 
Can the Z1 outperform your MSB DAC?
Absolutely, but not in stock form, remember the Sony was built to a retail price point of only $2000. 
However the Sony has strengths that you MSB will never have, I will elaborate later. 
 
Remove a few screws and lift the hood, you will see everything is modular with lots of room to tinker. Notice the 3 separate power transformers, one for the digital processing, one for the DAC Board & Analog output, and a small one for the ethernet networking. Excellent! In the middle you see the digital supply board which uses an inferior DC-DC power converter that unfortunately adds lots of noise. Shame on you Sony! The DAC/analog output supply board uses a better quality linear power supply. Notice I said better quality. Adding a top quality linear power supply "will" enhance performance. What's cool is you can repurpose the OEM linear power supply board to power the digital processor, a totally free bump in performance. While I have yet to personally explore it, no doubt improving the USB/Ethernet power supply will provide some gains. 
 
With the power cleaned up lets take a quick tour of the digital section. Music files are stored on the hard drive delivered via ethernet or ripped on an optical drive. (At the moment the streaming services are too inferior to consider ... adding Tidal would however create a nice wave IMO) What's really impressive about the Z1 is the short digital path from the hard drive to the processor to the DAC chip. The processor does it's work then directly outputs I2S via a silver wired ribbon cable directly to the DAC chip .... NO DIGITAL MONKEY MOTION!!!  No Spdif, no USB, no additional power supply aberrations to add jitter or whatever you want to call these distortion niggles. 
 
I'm not one of those guys that will argue the virtues of PCM vs DSD, IMO they both suck, they just happen to be the digital technology we are stuck with at this moment in time. This PCM digital thing is all about timing and to do that we need clocks, one for each frequency. These clocks need power which create aberrations, which alter the timing. The Z1 clocks are low cost, soldered to the output board, and powered via a cheap 3.3V regulator that is board powered via a 5V feed from the analog power supply. Remember that linear analog power supply. This is a nightmarish reality that no audiophile really wants to ponder. The DAC chip also needs power and does a mountain of math on the fly to output an analog signal. Go ahead and stroke the faceplate of your MSB, just understand the same thing is going inside there, albeit with a bit more polish. 
 
Switching to DSD with the Z1 things get a whole lot simpler, we let the main processor do all the math and feed DSD direct via the I2S cable. The DAC chip employ's a simple filter to output analog, look mom ... no clocks ... no math. 
Up-sampling all digital files to DSD128, direct I2S transfer, with a simple conversion is the Z1's real Kung Fu.
 
That brings us to the analog output section, while the Z1 use's op-amps "somebody" really knew what they were doing.  There are no caps in the signal path except on the output, all decoupling caps are film. Even more impressive is the tolerance's of the resistors, matched to the hundredth, very impressive. Power supply is +-18 volt from the linear power supply ... the cleaner the power ... the better the sound with this simple circuit. The weak link, you knew there had to be one, is the electrolytic outputs caps. Yea the bean counters got their finger prints all over these cheap filters. The balanced outputs have 'tolerable' blue Muse caps but the RCA outputs use some brown colored turds with bypass buggers. From there things get even worse, an output relay & molex cable to a riser board with circuit traces to plastic RCA jacks. Wow! Get a pair of pliers and a blow torch and rip that junk out immediately if you're stuck using RCA outputs. Shame on you Sony. Shame!
 
To sum it up, the Z1 is optimized for DSD up-sampling and balanced analog outputs.
 
While direct coupled output transformers would provide even lower noise and galvanic isolation, the Z1's stock analog output is nothing to sneeze at. To me adding tube outputs are a fool's errand on a device capable of near 120db SNR.
 
This brings me full circle back to Cryogenic's, this is hard science folks, not some audiophile neurosis nonsense. It relaxes the stress in metals, and yes almost everything inside audio components is made of metal. While the car racers, competition rifle shooters, machine shops ect, all use Cryo as a tool for better performance. Audiophiles divide into camps as if it's some sort of snake oil ... or miracle.  Cryo simply destress metals, a process for audio improvement's achieved my no other means. 
 
I really like the Sony HAP-Z1ES mainly because I dislike everything to do with using a home computer to play music.  I understand the Z1 was built to a price point, but on the other hand it's easy to get inside and upgrade the weak links. Understanding and modifying audio components to your taste is the ultimate expression of being an audiophile. 
 
Peace.
 
Aug 14, 2016 at 7:17 PM Post #48 of 111
  You have to think of the HAP-Z1ES  'as a whole' to extract maximum performance. Just like a race car, every little thing you do to it "will" change its performance ... yes including a SSD. What unique about the Z1 is that it's a total digital solution, no computer, no cables, no nonsense required. 
 
Can the Z1 outperform your MSB DAC?
Absolutely, but not in stock form, remember the Sony was built to a retail price point of only $2000. 
However the Sony has strengths that you MSB will never have, I will elaborate later. 
 
Remove a few screws and lift the hood, you will see everything is modular with lots of room to tinker. Notice the 3 separate power transformers, one for the digital processing, one for the DAC Board & Analog output, and a small one for the ethernet networking. Excellent! In the middle you see the digital supply board which uses an inferior DC-DC power converter that unfortunately adds lots of noise. Shame on you Sony! The DAC/analog output supply board uses a better quality linear power supply. Notice I said better quality. Adding a top quality linear power supply "will" enhance performance. What's cool is you can repurpose the OEM linear power supply board to power the digital processor, a totally free bump in performance. While I have yet to personally explore it, no doubt improving the USB/Ethernet power supply will provide some gains. 
 
With the power cleaned up lets take a quick tour of the digital section. Music files are stored on the hard drive delivered via ethernet or ripped on an optical drive. (At the moment the streaming services are too inferior to consider ... adding Tidal would however create a nice wave IMO) What's really impressive about the Z1 is the short digital path from the hard drive to the processor to the DAC chip. The processor does it's work then directly outputs I2S via a silver wired ribbon cable directly to the DAC chip .... NO DIGITAL MONKEY MOTION!!!  No Spdif, no USB, no additional power supply aberrations to add jitter or whatever you want to call these distortion niggles. 
 
I'm not one of those guys that will argue the virtues of PCM vs DSD, IMO they both suck, they just happen to be the digital technology we are stuck with at this moment in time. This PCM digital thing is all about timing and to do that we need clocks, one for each frequency. These clocks need power which create aberrations, which alter the timing. The Z1 clocks are low cost, soldered to the output board, and powered via a cheap 3.3V regulator that is board powered via a 5V feed from the analog power supply. Remember that linear analog power supply. This is a nightmarish reality that no audiophile really wants to ponder. The DAC chip also needs power and does a mountain of math on the fly to output an analog signal. Go ahead and stroke the faceplate of your MSB, just understand the same thing is going inside there, albeit with a bit more polish. 
 
Switching to DSD with the Z1 things get a whole lot simpler, we let the main processor do all the math and feed DSD direct via the I2S cable. The DAC chip employ's a simple filter to output analog, look mom ... no clocks ... no math. 
Up-sampling all digital files to DSD128, direct I2S transfer, with a simple conversion is the Z1's real Kung Fu.
 
That brings us to the analog output section, while the Z1 use's op-amps "somebody" really knew what they were doing.  There are no caps in the signal path except on the output, all decoupling caps are film. Even more impressive is the tolerance's of the resistors, matched to the hundredth, very impressive. Power supply is +-18 volt from the linear power supply ... the cleaner the power ... the better the sound with this simple circuit. The weak link, you knew there had to be one, is the electrolytic outputs caps. Yea the bean counters got their finger prints all over these cheap filters. The balanced outputs have 'tolerable' blue Muse caps but the RCA outputs use some brown colored turds with bypass buggers. From there things get even worse, an output relay & molex cable to a riser board with circuit traces to plastic RCA jacks. Wow! Get a pair of pliers and a blow torch and rip that junk out immediately if you're stuck using RCA outputs. Shame on you Sony. Shame!
 
To sum it up, the Z1 is optimized for DSD up-sampling and balanced analog outputs.
 
While direct coupled output transformers would provide even lower noise and galvanic isolation, the Z1's stock analog output is nothing to sneeze at. To me adding tube outputs are a fool's errand on a device capable of near 120db SNR.
 
This brings me full circle back to Cryogenic's, this is hard science folks, not some audiophile neurosis nonsense. It relaxes the stress in metals, and yes almost everything inside audio components is made of metal. While the car racers, competition rifle shooters, machine shops ect, all use Cryo as a tool for better performance. Audiophiles divide into camps as if it's some sort of snake oil ... or miracle.  Cryo simply destress metals, a process for audio improvement's achieved my no other means. 
 
I really like the Sony HAP-Z1ES mainly because I dislike everything to do with using a home computer to play music.  I understand the Z1 was built to a price point, but on the other hand it's easy to get inside and upgrade the weak links. Understanding and modifying audio components to your taste is the ultimate expression of being an audiophile. 
 
Peace.


Bill,
 
Thank you for the well thought out and well composed response.
I am sold!
Now where can I upgrade this beast to extract every bit of it's potential?
 
Is there one guy who does it all or will I need to ship it all over the place this thing is huge? Anyone sell them modded already?  If you could point my in the right direction???
 
I will put my 4k MSB power DAC up for sale once I hear this thing and am certain it surpasses my Fiio X-5II to my Dac. I am convinced it will...
 
 
Thanks again!!!!
 
Regards,
 
John
 
Aug 14, 2016 at 7:56 PM Post #49 of 111
Found one 
 
http://www.modwright.com/modifications/sony-hapz1es-truth-modification.php
 
It costs $3K  
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Sep 9, 2016 at 11:51 PM Post #50 of 111
Bill,
 
Many thanks for your info on SSD upgrades and cryo for the HAP Z1-ES, along with your analysis of the internals. Very interesting and very useful.
 
Based on some of your comments, I'm guessing you saw Vinnie Rossi's thread on his mods to the HAPZ, but if not its another good resource on the internals, a thread where he talks through his discovery of the internal configuration and what he did in developing his mods to the HAPZ:
 
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124280.0
 
Based on the info in that thread and knowing that Ric Schulz of EVS had been working up mods for the unit (which he has now dropped), I picked one up last summer and after spending some time to get to know it in my system and how it worked internally (via the schematic and service manual), I did some significant mods to my unit. I contributed to a thread on DIYAudio where I talked a bit about some of the things I've done and some that I plan to do later this year:
 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/252985-sony-hap-z1es-hi-res-source-new-2014-a.html?highlight=hap+sony
 
One can go to the DIYAudio thread above to read more on my mods and what I heard, but I saw a few things to respond to and/or offer a different conclusion on from your great writeup:
 
1. The smaller of the 3 transformers does not feed the networking, but is used to keep some of the logic alive for startup purposes (otherwise you couldn't turn it on via the remote). When the unit is powered on, the little transformer is not really powering anything. The USB & networking circuits are powered by the main digital transformer.
 
2. The analog output rails are +-15v, not +-18v.
 
3. The analog output muting relays are used in a "shunt to ground" configuration and are basically out of the circuit when not muting.
 
4. While the resistors are precision, they are "carbon" resistors. I found good metal film resistors to be much better here.
 
5. I agree that the output coupling caps should be better on both the SE & balanced outputs. I haven't compared the two different types to determine if the Elna ones used on the balanced are better... but the huge bean-counter fail is the use of mylar caps for the analog filtering. SHAME Sony! Replacing these with polyprops was as large as replacing the carbon resistors with metal film.
 
6. While the balanced output circuit MIGHT have better output coupling caps, the 2nd stage of the balanced side uses the NJM2114 Op Amp, which looks to be a good choice, but is not as highly regarded as the OPA2132 used on the SE side.
 
Given 5 & 6 above, I would expect the sonic differences between the two outputs to depend more on whether the SE or balanced input to your preamp or amp sounds better rather than any strong inherent difference between the HAPZ's SE and balanced output.
 
Even with these minor quibbles/differences of opinion, I love your writeup and like you think the HAPZ is a great unit, especially for the price. Sony did a number of things VERY right, most of which you hit on in your writeup. And those things are what made it a great unit for a DIY modification (or Vinnie's or ModWright's).
 
Yup, the DC-to-DC converters have to go... replacing them with linear regulators made the largest sonic difference of anything I did to the unit.
 
While the power supply is already largely linear and pretty well structured, ALL of the rails need larger filter capacitors (IMHO) and the regulators need to be right at the consuming circuits instead of inches away, which I've done for the DAC, clocks, analog circuits, and SSD and will next do for the main digital feed to the processors. Note that I have upgraded ALL of the power supply board regulators, but only the ones above are at the consuming circuits. And also note that there are a number of other DC-to-DC converters on the various digital processing and control boards, which I don't intend to touch (at this time). 
 
The analog signal capacitors and resistors REALLY need to be upgraded as above... When I did this to mine, I only did the SE side so I could compare the results by switching between the outputs. My amps (homebuilt Hypex NC400 monoblocks) take both SE and balanced, but supposedly sound better with a balanced signal. AND my upgraded SE HAPZ output sounds much more natural, dynamic, and detailed than the balanced output with the stock carbon resistors, mylar capacitors, and so-so coupling caps (I used unobtainium Black Gate Non-Polar caps for coupling caps on the SE side).
 
And I hard-soldered good wire from the outputs on the main analog board to the RCAs on the output connector board, bypassing the degrading connectors
 
And finally, in my setup, while DSD has some attractive aspects, my music, mostly Redbook from ripped CDs, sounds more natural and dynamically impactive as native PCM.
 
I suspect one may come to an entirely different conclusion with a different setup.
 
AND your writeup has me adding a cryo treatment on my to-do list after I finish my next set of mods later this year or early next.
 
Greg in Mississippi 
 
Sep 10, 2016 at 10:17 AM Post #51 of 111
  Gentlemen,
 
I thought I might share a couple simple DIY upgrades to the HAP-Z1ES.
While I have done extensive mods to the Z1, these 2 provide what I call "essential" for maximum performance.
The combination of these 2 actions will transform the HAP-Z1ES from best bang for the buck ... to ... World Class Digital.
 
1. Install an Internal SSD. 
 
2. Cryo treat the entire unit. (LCD Faceplate Removed)
 
 
 
Start by removing the top cover and installing a SSD, I recommend a 1TB Samsung 850 EVO. (2TB even bigger)
Once the SSD is installed, perform a factory restore from the menu, it will format the SSD in less then 3 minutes.
Yes, you must re-install all your music ... small price to pay. 
I can't imagine anyone not hearing the difference, nor not being able to perform this operation themselves.
If your on a budget, you can always install a smaller SSD and add a larger spinning drive to the rear USB jack.
I hear no difference from music stored on the rear USB spinning drive ... once you have an Internal SSD installed.
With the latest software, you can add a USB hub and have both a CDROM & USB Hard Drive hooked up at the same time.
 
While Cryo treating may intimidate some novices, man up, it's really simple to do. 
With the top cover off, remove all the top and bottom screws that hold on the front faceplate.
Unplug all the quick disconnects and set the LCD faceplate aside in a safe place, reinstall top cover.
Send the entire unit to a Vapor Cryo Lab, I recommend Cryogenics International of Scottsdale AZ. 
You don't want to submerge the unit in liquid nitrogen, a proper vapor process will achieve the same results without the shock effect.
 
A proper Cryo treatment is a permanent process, I have treated 1000's of audio products over the years with some excellent results.
If there's one underlining theme, it's the Better the product Pre-Cryo ... the Bigger the results Post Cryo. 
No, No's are LCD screens, older overheated brittle electronic boards, anything with glues like speaker cones, and non-professional paint jobs can peel. Most everything else is good to go.
 
The HAP-Z1ES is a perfect Cryo candidate, I have done 3 with zero issue's. (Yes, you can leave the SSD inside)
If you also have a Sony TA- A1ES amp, you can dunk the entire amplifier as-is into the Cryo Tank.
The digital readout on the front of the A1ES is not a LCD ... it survives the Cryo process just fine.
Don't forget to throw in all your cables while your gear's at the Cryo Lab.  
I have done shootouts with Cryo'd and Un-Cryo'd Sony HAP-Z1ES & TA-A1ES pair ... the differences really are amazing.
 
World Class Audio, no better bang for the buck IMO!!!
 
Think about it ... for the total cost of an average audiophile interconnect cable your can permanently transform your Sony Components.
 
Peace.

Thank you, I learnt a lot from your post.
"What's really impressive about the Z1 is the short digital path from the hard drive to the processor to the DAC chip. The processor does it's work then directly outputs I2S via a silver wired ribbon cable directly to the DAC chip .... NO DIGITAL MONKEY MOTION!!!  No Spdif, no USB, no additional power supply aberrations to add jitter or whatever you want to call these distortion niggles. "
 
I do not have even 5% of your EE knowledge but that was exactly my thinking when I decided to buy Z1. I expected that this box may have the most direct path between the HDD and DAC and you confirmed that. But I believe that this is also a reason why Z1 did not really get much traction with computer audiophiles. No USB, no spidif means no USB regenerators, USB decrapyfiers, jitter healers to be stuck in every cavity of the device? We cannot have that, it would like kill the whole industry!
Anyway, for me HAP-Z1ES is the foundation of my main system, it is not going anywhere. With my limited knowledge the only two mods I can do is to quiet the box (done), and swap the drive for SSD at the end of warranty. Oh and I turned off the HDD fan from the maintenance menu. No change in unit temperature, a bit more quiet but it was quiet anyway.
 
Sep 26, 2016 at 6:57 AM Post #52 of 111
Today I get my unit back from United Radio repairs, it took about a week in total, 7 days. They replaced the defective LCD, I also complained about errors regarding the units Hard drive, but that would have set me back an additional week to get the replacement HD, I decided to do the HiFi insider upgrade from Mike instead.

I'll post some pictures of the new display. I'm happy to be getting it back, nothing I own sounds as good.
 
Sep 26, 2016 at 11:25 PM Post #53 of 111



All working and happy, drive upgrade went smooth, loading music and listening on my new HD800S.


 
Oct 2, 2016 at 3:09 PM Post #54 of 111
written tutorial on my website HiFiInsider.


Mike did the HD upgrade using you tutorial, worked exactly as described. Thank you for taking time to do this and Sharing with us.
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 11:14 AM Post #55 of 111
 

New Firmware avialable 10/18/2016 

 

 

 

File Description

IMPORTANT: This update is available only by performing a Network Upgrade.
This firmware upgrade (version 18033R) provides the following improvements over version 17384R:
  1. Adds support for the Media Server function
  2. Adds support for the USB digital output function (USB hub support for connecting each of one HDD drive, one CD drive, and one USB DAC)  
  3. Adds support for Seek operations
  4. Adds support for the Fade In/Out function
  5. Adds the Go to genre/artist/album/folder function to the Options menu
  6. Adds the following operations:
    1. Queuing the track next to the one currently playing, and queuing the track last
    2. Deleting the track from the play queue
    3. Creating a playlist with the play queue
    4. Deleting the playlist
    5. Deleting the track from the playlist
    6. Deleting the information of a disconnected external hard disk drive
IMPORTANT: To use the HDD Audio Remote app on your smartphone or tablet you must update the app software using the Google Play™ online store for Android™ devices, or the iTunes® App Store for iOS devices.
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 2:29 PM Post #56 of 111
18033R is available for the both the HAP-S1 & Z1
 
 
Music Server functionality is the number one complaint I've read from people over the years that this device is missing. Now that it has it....
 
 
Same with External USB DAC functionality which is now here.... Includes DSD ability from external unit.
 
 
Seek ability while controlling from the HAP unit itself - this is something I've always wanted!
 
 
Queue and Playlists is also another complaint from the past - now fully supported...
 
 
Fades in and out when music is paused...
 
 
Probably the best update ever....
 
Oct 18, 2016 at 3:13 PM Post #57 of 111
I wish there are more info on "USB DAC". What does that mean?
 
https://esupport.sony.com/US/p/swu-download.pl?mdl=HAPZ1ES&upd_id=10956&os_group_id=18
 
On my Z1es is shows this.
 
I updated the FW. Looks to be using an external DAC with Z1es. I wish I could tap into the internal DAC instead. 
 
info from Sony: http://tinyurl.com/zhuyndl
 

 
Oct 18, 2016 at 3:52 PM Post #58 of 111
Great Mike thx for the update and I agree, it would be amazingly if they allowed access to the internal DAC.

Sony Has been giving us some nice updates.
 
Oct 25, 2016 at 10:33 PM Post #59 of 111
Has anyone tried connecting a DAC yet? My Vega arrives on Thursday so I'll have to give it a try
 
Oct 25, 2016 at 11:09 PM Post #60 of 111
Haven't had the time myself. But looking forward to yours or any other members impressions.
 

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