[Sennheiser]

Hello Head-Fiers,
 
There's been quite a number of queries on the new Sennheiser RS digital wireless models and I thought it'll be great to have a dedicated thread on them. So this is it. Please post your impressions, reviews and/or questions on them here. 
 

 

[mark2410]

hey, if this is the new local for the RSxx5's i'll slap up a link to my review of the 185's.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/764148/sennheiser-rs185-review-by-mark2410

 

[Fornax]

You can pair the HDR 165, HDR 175 and HDR 185 headphones to any of the RS 1x5 transmitter. Up to two headphones may be paired to a transmitter.


As for the batteries, each product is supplied with high-quality, low self-discharge rechargeable batteries (AAA size, 1.2V, 820 mAh). And yes, upon a full charge, they can hold their charge for quite awhile.

 
Good info! Just to clarify, so an HDR 185 can be paired with a TR 175 transmitter and the functions and features are all supported by the controls on the headsets. An HDR 185 paired to TR 165 or 175, would NOT gain the bass boost or virtual surround sound functionality, but would retain its ability to control balance (the L/R buttons on the headset). The other differentiator of the RS 185 is the ALC/MLC feature…

Question on the ALC/MLC feature of the RS 185. From the manual (RS185 | p. 23): "The RS 185 headphone system offers two modes (Automatic Level Control ALC/Manual Level Control MLC) for controlling the input level of analog signals going through the system."

(Sorry if this is fairly newbie/ignorant question) Is this referring to the analog input via the RCA jacks on the back of the TR 185 unit (so not applicable to the digital S/PDIF input, controlled by internal DAC)? In MLC (manual mode), the instructions mentions "Use the MLC rotary knob to manually adjust the audio level." Does that mean this feature requires the TR 185 transmitter to function, as there no such dial on the TR 165/175/195. So an HDR 185 paired with a TR 165/175/195 would lose this functionality? How important is this function, since it's not on the other RS models — is it because the HDR 185 is open design and meant for music appreciation so *may* need finer adjustment of input levels? ALC mode can still function on HDR 185 when paired with a TR transmitter without this *knob*?

EDIT2: Went back to read Jude's CES 2015 Highlights (as suggested by Rosmadi a while back) and his thoughts on the RS 185; there is info about the ALC/MLC feature and that it's only needed for the analog input, if optical input is used it's not needed: "… Though (the RS 185) has an analog input from which one can choose automatic level control or manual level control, I use (as I do with the RS220) the optical digital input, feeding it from the optical output of a Fostex HP-A4 or Fostex HP-A8C. (From its optical input, the level is fixed, with volume only controlled by the headphone controls.)"

If the above case is true then cross-pairing the 175/185 units would yield:

• TR 175 + HDR 175 + HDR 185 = full RS 175 functionality, RS 185 functionality - balance buttons on headset, but MINUS the Manual Level Control, since knob only on TR 185.

• TR 185 + HDR 185 + HDR 175 = full RS 185 functionality, full RS 175 functionality - as all TR 175 buttons (VSS,BB) duplicated on the HDR 175 headset.

Is that the main difference, MLC functionality require TR 185? So if I stick to optical input on a TR 175, it won't be an issue with HDR 185; if using analog, I'd need to adjust the input levels before the signals arrive at the TR 175 transmitter unit.

(EDIT1: I see from marko2410's review images that the batteries are "GP ReCyko" AAA batteries, thank you for helpful review/images!)

On Batteries: Can I replace the factory batteries with eneloop NiMH AAA batteries and they'll charge in the RS 1x5 heaphones while on the cradle as expected? I remember watching a youtube review from 2014 that clearly showed the RS 170 to come with eneloop AAA batteries. I already have a few eneloop AAA NiMH batteries so I assume they will be interchangeable.

Thanks for starting this thread and answering these fairly focused/specific questions.

----
EDIT1: Updated battery question after seeing marko2410's review/images. Checked on "GP ReCyko Batteries" saw 2010 review by "NLee the Engineer" on amazon, seems the batteries are of good quality.

EDIT2: Jude's CES 2015 Highlights as suggested by Rosmadi [http://www.head-fi.org/t/751094/head-fi-ces-2015-highlights/120#post_11336889].

There's some info around, but it's all in different places, pardon for editing my post as I find some answers to my questions.

 

[Coldsnap]

Thanks for the new thread. I have been enjoying my RS 185. 

 

[holyindian]

Thats good news then. My wife dislikes bass, I can  get her the RS 185 and while i sport the RS 175 and still be using the same transmitter, i dig genuine bass, not the boom boom stuff, but more the LFE the lower it gets the better, well the headphones arent capable of doing that though, but the RS 175 does it what i want it to be with the 20 mins demo i witnessed at AXPONA, with Interstellar's black hole scene, plus other sound rich movie scenes such as Art of Flight, sounded amazing.
Another fun thing about the RS 175 is that the closed back sound, unlike the RS 185 that has an open back, which gives away the concept of privately enjoying a movie without disturbing anyone else around you.
I'd love to be able to enjoy my movies with all the impact and sound while the wife busy doing her stuff without nagging me to turn the volume down, or that the sound from the open back headphone is distracting while she is working.
 
I was lucky enough to snatch a deal today morning on ebay for a brand new open box, never used RS 175 for 165 dollars.
Now i have to wait till someone puts out a RS 185 (just the headphone for sale).
 
Now a quick question. What are the cables that connect from the AVR to the headphones transmitter, i was planning to get a longer one, so that i can run it through the back, under the trim (will have to pull out one and put the cables in), and place the transmitter on the side stand next to the couch?
What cables are these, and if any third party cables are better than the OEM cables for this application? will a 25 feet cable work or degrade the performance?

 

[Sennheiser]

Hi Fornax,
 
Below are my responses in blue:
 
Quote:

 
Good info! Just to clarify, so an HDR 185 can be paired with a TR 175 transmitter and the functions and features are all supported by the controls on the headsets. With this pair, you can only activate the bass boost and VSS on the TR 175 and not on the HDR 185.
 
An HDR 185 paired to TR 165 or 175, would NOT gain the bass boost or virtual surround sound functionality, but would retain its ability to control balance (the L/R buttons on the headset). The other differentiator of the RS 185 is the ALC/MLC feature… HDR 185 with TR 175 - You can activate bass boost and VSS (refer to earlier response) as well as able to control balance (the L/R buttons on the headset). As for HDR 185 and TR 165 - You'll only get balance control. And yes, the ALC and MLC functions are unique to TR 185. 

Question on the ALC/MLC feature of the RS 185. From the manual (RS185 | p. 23): "The RS 185 headphone system offers two modes (Automatic Level Control ALC/Manual Level Control MLC) for controlling the input level of analog signals going through the system."

(Sorry if this is fairly newbie/ignorant question) Is this referring to the analog input via the RCA jacks on the back of the TR 185 unit (so not applicable to the digital S/PDIF input, controlled by internal DAC)? Yes. This feature is only applicable for analog input as you've mentioned.
 
In MLC (manual mode), the instructions mentions "Use the MLC rotary knob to manually adjust the audio level." Does that mean this feature requires the TR 185 transmitter to function, as there no such dial on the TR 165/175/195. Yes. This is a feature unique to the TR 185.
 
So an HDR 185 paired with a TR 165/175/195 would lose this functionality? Yes.
 
How important is this function, since it's not on the other RS models — is it because the HDR 185 is open design and meant for music appreciation so *may* need finer adjustment of input levels? Yes.
 
ALC mode can still function on HDR 185 when paired with a TR transmitter without this *knob*? Yes.

EDIT2: Went back to read Jude's CES 2015 Highlights (as suggested by Rosmadi a while back) and his thoughts on the RS 185; there is info about the ALC/MLC feature and that it's only needed for the analog input, if optical input is used it's not needed: "… Though (the RS 185) has an analog input from which one can choose automatic level control or manual level control, I use (as I do with the RS220) the optical digital input, feeding it from the optical output of a Fostex HP-A4 or Fostex HP-A8C. (From its optical input, the level is fixed, with volume only controlled by the headphone controls.)"

If the above case is true then cross-pairing the 175/185 units would yield:

• TR 175 + HDR 175 + HDR 185 = full RS 175 functionality, RS 185 functionality - balance buttons on headset, but MINUS the Manual Level Control, since knob only on TR 185. Yes.

• TR 185 + HDR 185 + HDR 175 = full RS 185 functionality, full RS 175 functionality - as all TR 175 buttons (VSS,BB) duplicated on the HDR 175 headset. In this instance, you will not be able to activate VSS and BB on the HDR 175. 

Is that the main difference, MLC functionality require TR 185? Yes.
 
On Batteries: I remember watching a youtube review from 2014 that clearly showed the RS 170 to come with eneloop AAA batteries. Do the new RS 1X5 series also rely on the same or relabeled eneloop AAA's? I already have a few eneloop AAA NiMH batteries so I assume they will be interchangeable.
The new RS models come with GP ReCyko Batteries but you can still use your eneloop ones, if you like. 

 

[Fornax]

 
Below are my responses in blue:
 
[…]
 
Just to clarify, so an HDR 185 can be paired with a TR 175 transmitter and the functions and features are all supported by the controls on the headsets. With this pair, you can only activate the bass boost and VSS on the TR 175 and not on the HDR 185.
 
[…]
 
• TR 185 + HDR 185 + HDR 175 = full RS 185 functionality, full RS 175 functionality - as all TR 175 buttons (VSS,BB) duplicated on the HDR 175 headset. In this instance, you will not be able to activate VSS and BB on the HDR 175.   
[…]

 
Thank you for answering all those questions! Very informative. The ones quoted above are the only answers that was unexpected. An HDR 175 paired to a TR 185 will lose the VSS/BB functions…
 
I had hoped that the HDR 175 would still support the features, as there are VSS+BB buttons on the headphones themselves. But if the features are lost in this pairing, then that would imply the circuits that support VSS/BB are implemented on the TR 175 transmitter and would require it to function?
 
The earlier answer about a TR 175 paired to HDR 185 and able to function with VSS+BB but need to turn the features on using the buttons of TR 175 unit, as the HDR 185 has no such buttons. This would also imply that BOTH paired HDR headphones (175+185) will go into VSS/BB mode if it's activated? So you can't have one HDR/person with VSS+BB turned on and the other HDR/person with it off? If true, this would be the case even if both headphones paired are HDR 175's?
 
So if I am understanding the functionalities correctly, cross-pairing an HDR-175 to TR-185 would not give you the VSS/BB features of the RS 175.
However cross-pairing an HDR-185 to a TR-175, you would LOSE the MLC (but defaults to ALC with analog; and not needed if optical) but gain VSS/BB if activated on the TR 175.
 
****
Therefore with your new information, RS + HDR purchase options:
• RS 175 + HDR 185 = full function VSS and BB possible on both headphones connected (not individually); the only feature LOST is MLC in analog requiring knob on TR 185 transmitter.
• RS 185 + HDR 175 = rather pointless, as there is no support for VSS/BB on the TR 185, better off buying a second HDR 185 instead.
****
 
Much appreciated that we can get official answers so that I/we can make informed purchase decisions. Cheers!

 

[Fornax]

  Been about a week 1/2 with my RS 185s. My simple setup is a Sony W950B, Audio Quest optical cable running out the back, and into the RS 185.  
 
I continued testing it vs the 175s. I could imagine getting the 175s without hearing the 185s and being completely happy. But once you have them side by side you realize how small the sound stage is on the 175s, it feels like you're watching a movie in a small small closet, and how muddy the bass is which bleeds over to muddy dialog. The surround effect isn't that great, I realized this after testing 7.1 software which I will get into. Along with that the 175s headband started hurting the top of my head after about an hour of using. Still though, I can see how some people might be happy with the 175s for the price. They have the same simplicity benefits of the RS 185. […]

 

Originally Posted by Coldsnap /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[…]
I should have tested this while I had both, because it's one of the most asked questions in this thread. From what I heard the 175s can be paired with the 185 station and charged. I don't keep my headphones on the charge base, they lasted a week 1/2 of regular use before I had to charge them tonight. 

 
Drat! Haha.
 
I was just cut-n-pasting from both your posts from a few days ago and pretty excited since you "… continued testing (the RS 185) vs the 175s" until I got to the 2nd part were you mentioned "… (you) should have tested this while (you) had both"… past-tense.
 
Hoping you still had both, I was going to ask if you could spare some time to cross-pair the HDR 185 to the TR 175, and tell us your impressions of the HDR 185 +VSS/BB as compared to the HDR 175 +VSS/BB; as described as possible from Rosmadi's answers above. Oh well, hopefully someone else might get a chance to try it and shed some light.
 
Heh. Cheers.

 

[holyindian]

Are there better non-oem cables for the RS 175? Can i use longer cables instead of the one that came with the box? I'd love to keep the headphone by the side stand next to the couch. while concealing the wires in the wall. Will running 20' cables add distortion or reduce the signal strength?

 

[Coldsnap]

  Are there better non-oem cables for the RS 175? Can i use longer cables instead of the one that came with the box? I'd love to keep the headphone by the side stand next to the couch. while concealing the wires in the wall. Will running 20' cables add distortion or reduce the signal strength?

you can use any optical cable. I got this one because I need something longer too
 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-optilink-forest-9-8-in-wall-optical-cable-black-green/4634909.p?id=1218501940396&skuId=4634909

 

[Sennheiser]

Hi again Fornax,
 
Please refer to my responses below (in blue):
 
Quote:

   
Thank you for answering all those questions! Very informative. The ones quoted above are the only answers that was unexpected. An HDR 175 paired to a TR 185 will lose the VSS/BB functions…
 
I had hoped that the HDR 175 would still support the features, as there are VSS+BB buttons on the headphones themselves. But if the features are lost in this pairing, then that would imply the circuits that support VSS/BB are implemented on the TR 175 transmitter and would require it to function? Yes. That's correct.
 
The earlier answer about a TR 175 paired to HDR 185 and able to function with VSS+BB but need to turn the features on using the buttons of TR 175 unit, as the HDR 185 has no such buttons. This would also imply that BOTH paired HDR headphones (175+185) will go into VSS/BB mode if it's activated? Yes. 
 
So you can't have one HDR/person with VSS+BB turned on and the other HDR/person with it off? If true, this would be the case even if both headphones paired are HDR 175's? Yes. 
 
So if I am understanding the functionalities correctly, cross-pairing an HDR-175 to TR-185 would not give you the VSS/BB features of the RS 175.
Yes. TR 185 do not have the VSS/BB circuitry on it. But you will get the ALC/MLC functions via the controls on the TR 185.
 
However cross-pairing an HDR-185 to a TR-175, you would LOSE the MLC (but defaults to ALC with analog; and not needed if optical) but gain VSS/BB if activated on the TR 175. Yes. 
 
****
Therefore with your new information, RS + HDR purchase options:
• RS 175 + HDR 185 = full function VSS and BB possible on both headphones connected (not individually); the only feature LOST is MLC in analog requiring knob on TR 185 transmitter. Yes. 
 
• RS 185 + HDR 175 = rather pointless, as there is no support for VSS/BB on the TR 185, better off buying a second HDR 185 instead.
This is rather subjective. Another difference to consider between HDR 185 and HDR 175 is the headphone design - the former is open while the latter is closed. 
****
 
Much appreciated that we can get official answers so that I/we can make informed purchase decisions. Cheers!
No problem! Hope you find the response helpful. 

 

[holyindian]

  you can use any optical cable. I got this one because I need something longer too
 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-optilink-forest-9-8-in-wall-optical-cable-black-green/4634909.p?id=1218501940396&skuId=4634909

 
Thanks for the link. But didnt you pay a lot to get that from worstbuy?
I was looking on amazon for 20-25 feet cables. and this is one looks solid. hope this works.
http://www.amazon.com/BuyCheapCables%C2%AE-Premium-Braided-Toslink-Connectors/dp/B00K5ZAD0C
 
http://www.amazon.com/BuyCheapCables%C2%AE-Premium-Braided-Toslink-Connectors/dp/B00K5ZAD0C

 

[Coldsnap]

   
Thanks for the link. But didnt you pay a lot to get that from worstbuy?
I was looking on amazon for 20-25 feet cables. and this is one looks solid. hope this works.
http://www.amazon.com/BuyCheapCables%C2%AE-Premium-Braided-Toslink-Connectors/dp/B00K5ZAD0C
 
http://www.amazon.com/BuyCheapCables%C2%AE-Premium-Braided-Toslink-Connectors/dp/B00K5ZAD0C

 
If you're buying a cable on a budget I'd get one from Monoprice.com. I mostly buy audioquest cables, decent stuff but expensive. 

 

[Fornax]

 
Please refer to my responses below (in blue):
 
Q1a: "… cross-pairing an HDR-185 to a TR-175, you would LOSE the MLC (but defaults to ALC with analog; and not needed if optical) but gain VSS/BB if activated on the TR 175."
A1a: Yes. 
 
[…]
 
Q1b: "RS 175 + HDR 185 = full function VSS and BB possible on both headphones connected (not individually); the only feature LOST is MLC in analog requiring knob on TR 185 transmitter."
A1b: Yes. 
 
Q2: "RS 185 + HDR 175 = rather pointless, as there is no support for VSS/BB on the TR 185, better off buying a second HDR 185 instead."
This is rather subjective. Another difference to consider between HDR 185 and HDR 175 is the headphone design - the former is open while the latter is closed. 

 
On Q1: Since the VSS/BB features are TR 175 transmitter dependent, it might also be the case for the ALC/MLC feature of the RS 185. In which case my assumptions in Q1 above - (TR 175 + HDR 185 + HDR 175) MLC being the only feature lost, ALC still works - might be false if the ALC feature is also implemented on the TR 185 transmitter, and would not be possible using the TR 175 transmitter.
 
I searched the RS 175/185/195 PDF manuals, and the only one with "ALC" feature seems to be the RS 185. I also found it mentioned in a old cnet.com review of the old RS 180:
 

The RS 180 is the only wireless Sennheiser headphone model I've tested with Automatic Level Control (ALC), which maintains a consistent volume level for movies and TV shows. I expect many RS 180 owners will find ALC very useful when the quieter scenes of a movie are difficult to hear, as the technology boosts the volume in the quieter parts of a mix while simultaneously preventing the loud sounds from getting too loud. It's a great feature, and Sennheiser should put it on all of its wireless headphones.
 
— S. Guttenberg, Sept 21, 2012, "Sennheiser RS 180 Review"

 
Guttenberg described its function, how it is particularly useful while watching video. Seems this nice feature was exclusive to the RS 180 back then. Can you confirm whether the current HDR 185 will retain the ALC function if paired to a TR 175 base? I assumed previously that the MLC required the knob on the TR 185, but ALC would be default mode; now it seems might be an exclusive feature requiring TR 185 transmitter. So would one gain VSS/BB with the TR 175 transmitter, but lose ALC/MLC, as there is no mention of ALC in the RS 175 manual? ALC does not function (and not designed to) if an optical input is used so might not be significant, right?
 
On Q2: Good point about the open vs closed design.
 
In comparing just the headsets (TR transmitter features being equal):
 
I understand there is two tiers in build/comfort quality: 165/175 is the standard build, while the 185/195 is the better build — the 185/195 has *puffier* headband cushions in various product photos, and in the reviews posted to head-fi.org. If paired to the same transmitter, is there a sound difference between the 165, 175, and the 195? For the budget conscious (like me the HDR 165 might be a reasonable second pair closed headset. If comfort is more important in a closed design, the HDR 195 might be considered with understanding of button/function/transmitter etc.
 
About the RS 195:
 
For someone with hearing loss, requiring hearing aids to carry on a conversation, are the RS 195 useful in watching television? I know they are for people needing "assistive hearing". The manual says it features "hearing boost presets and an additional noise suppression mode". It's not clear if this is for people with mild hearing loss, but not needing hearing aids; especially since it touts great sound quality.
 
I understand the only way to know is for the person to try it out, as improvements while using the RS 195 would depend on the level of hearing loss. I know Sennheiser has other TV assistive listening devices, with bands hanging below the chin. Are those more suited to moderate hearing loss? Let me know if I should direct this kind of questions to someone specific at Sennheiser.
 
Thanks, I'm gonnah be super prepared when the stores here finally carry the new RS series and I can listen to the differences in person.

 

[holyindian]

If you're buying a cable on a budget I'd get one from Monoprice.com. I mostly buy audioquest cables, decent stuff but expensive. 

What difference does it make? Sound quality or just the build quality?