[jdw101]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say that this forum has been a real interesting read for a novice, learned a lot and also scared to death a lot. I decided to buy a Schiit Jotunheim with the DAC module, 499.00.

Received it today and my headphones are Shure SE846 IEMS. I have had those a little while. This is the extent of my audio gear.

After receiving the Jotunheim I was amazed at what I was missing. Typically used the ALC 1150 from my computer. It's just night and day different, I can tell that one thing I was lacking was simply power.

Anyway not really good enough to do a real review but did want to come sing it's praises for what I think is a pretty amazing value!

 

[x RELIC x]

...

After receiving the Jotunheim I was amazed at what I was missing. Typically used the ALC 1150 from my computer. It's just night and day different, I can tell that one thing I was lacking was simply power.

...

Actually, no, the one thing you were lacking was a well designed amplifier.

I highly doubt you turned the volume knob near max with the SE846 and therefore you would not see anywhere near the power the Jot is capable of. For a sensitive IEM like the SE846 you are only using a tiny fraction of the available power for reasonable listening levels.

I'm very glad you're enjoying the Schiit Jot, but consider this... If not listening near max volume then that power is unused and untapped. A good amp design entails a lot more than just a max power spec. When listening to the same IEM at the same dB SPL then the power output from the ALC1150 is the same as what is being output from the Jot. It's pretty straight forward... when a certain Voltage/Current are fed in to a load with a certain sensitivity then you get a certain dB level of loudness. Add more Voltage/Current (turn up the volume knob) and get more dB.

There are plenty of great amps with a lot less power, just like there are just as powerful amps that may not sound as good. The key is implementation, once there is enough power. The thing is that often (not always) amps with a lot of power output are also well designed and so then the consumer just assumes it's the total max Wattage that results in a better sound, but 99.9% of the time this isn't the case as most headphones/IEMs require very little juice to play at reasonable listening levels.

Anyway, congrats on the amp upgrade!

 

[jdw101]

Actually, no, the one thing you were lacking was a well designed amplifier.

I highly doubt you turned the volume knob near max with the SE846 and therefore you would not see anywhere near the power the Jot is capable of. For a sensitive IEM like the SE846 you are only using a tiny fraction of the available power for reasonable listening levels.

I'm very glad you're enjoying the Schiit Jot, but consider this... If not listening near max volume then that power is unused and untapped. A good amp design entails a lot more than just a max power spec. When listening to the same IEM at the same dB SPL then the power output from the ALC1150 is the same as what is being output from the Jot. It's pretty straight forward... when a certain Voltage/Current are fed in to a load with a certain sensitivity then you get a certain dB level of loudness. Add more Voltage/Current (turn up the volume knob) and get more dB.

There are plenty of great amps with a lot less power, just like there are just as powerful amps that may not sound as good. The key is implementation, once there is enough power. The thing is that often (not always) amps with a lot of power output are also well designed and so then the consumer just assumes it's the total max Wattage that results in a better sound, but 99.9% of the time this isn't the case as most headphones/IEMs require very little juice to play at reasonable listening levels.

Anyway, congrats on the amp upgrade!

Thank you so much, learning a lot every day thanks to this forum and everyone willing to share their knowledge.

 

[SubMash]

Actually, no, the one thing you were lacking was a well designed amplifier.

I highly doubt you turned the volume knob near max with the SE846 and therefore you would not see anywhere near the power the Jot is capable of. For a sensitive IEM like the SE846 you are only using a tiny fraction of the available power for reasonable listening levels.

I'm very glad you're enjoying the Schiit Jot, but consider this... If not listening near max volume then that power is unused and untapped. A good amp design entails a lot more than just a max power spec. When listening to the same IEM at the same dB SPL then the power output from the ALC1150 is the same as what is being output from the Jot. It's pretty straight forward... when a certain Voltage/Current are fed in to a load with a certain sensitivity then you get a certain dB level of loudness. Add more Voltage/Current (turn up the volume knob) and get more dB.

There are plenty of great amps with a lot less power, just like there are just as powerful amps that may not sound as good. The key is implementation, once there is enough power. The thing is that often (not always) amps with a lot of power output are also well designed and so then the consumer just assumes it's the total max Wattage that results in a better sound, but 99.9% of the time this isn't the case as most headphones/IEMs require very little juice to play at reasonable listening levels.

Anyway, congrats on the amp upgrade!

Sorry for necroposting, but while SE846 is low impedance and volume knob has to stay very low - SE846 in fact requires power and low output impedance. So with that low volume position it demands a lot of current which most amps on the market can't provide and will either saturate or as a minimum will keep it under damped.

You want 20:1 damping factor. 846 dips to 5Ohm. You want below 250 mOhm amp + cable. 100 mOhm will be lost at IEM jacks. So you have 150 mOhm for cable and amp itself.

Jotunheim claims 100mOhm. Don't know if it's per output or total balanced OI. And if it's maximum impedance or average.

Now you have probably 2 meter cable, since it's stationary amp. Total 4 meter for positive and negative lines. And you need twisted wire that will be <17 mOhm per meter. Since it's twisted that would be 10 mOhm per meter - AWG15 or thicker...

Now back to the question - anyone knows other balanced low output impedance headphone amps?

 

[x RELIC x]

Sorry for necroposting, but while SE846 is low impedance and volume knob has to stay very low - SE846 in fact requires power and low output impedance. So with that low volume position it demands a lot of current which most amps on the market can't provide and will either saturate or as a minimum will keep it under damped.

You want 20:1 damping factor. 846 dips to 5Ohm. You want below 250 mOhm amp + cable. 100 mOhm will be lost at IEM jacks. So you have 150 mOhm for cable and amp itself.

Jotunheim claims 100mOhm. Don't know if it's per output or total balanced OI. And if it's maximum impedance or average.

Now you have probably 2 meter cable, since it's stationary amp. Total 4 meter for positive and negative lines. And you need twisted wire that will be <17 mOhm per meter. Since it's twisted that would be 10 mOhm per meter - AWG15 or thicker...

Now back to the question - anyone knows other balanced low output impedance headphone amps?

Since you quoted me...

Agreed, the SE846 is a very low impedance IEM so yes it will require a higher ratio of Current to Voltage, that’s a given. What you are missing is how low both numbers actually need to be to reach deafening levels of volume. This isn’t a mystery, it’s electrical math. You are correct about requiring a low output impedance on the amp, especially with a very sensitive BA IEM like the SE846.

This is the actual power required to reach 120dB peaks (threshold of pain) from the 9 Ohm, 114dB SPL/mW sensitivity of the SE846:

http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html




I’d say that if the Jot can't output 0.19 Vrms Voltage and 21.11mA of Current then Schiit should stop making audio products.

As for your other question, I’d recommend looking for smaller and less powerful amps than the Jot that can actually use some of the volume knob range with the SE846 to avoid channel imbalance and to have the ability to fine tune the loudness.

 

[SubMash]

I just can't find low OI balanced amps that can work with 846 and 650. Certainly, Jot gain is excessive for any headphones