[lehmanhill]

   
I cant think of any modern PIO caps that would satisfy your 50+ uf / 250V range. Are you sure you need 250v? There might be some Western Electric caps out there that do though. In any case I would go with NOS caps. There is actually a good chance that the motor runs you have in your amp now will out preform the caps your wanting to replace them with.
 
Although, like you, I am a bit of a skeptical empiricist I do think a grading scheme for caps is useful. Take a look at this extensive comparison of caps for example. Here the mundorf supreme scores a 10. From experience I can tell you that caps like the MBGO or MBGH-1 will far out preform it. I mean leave it in the dust, really a cap like the mundorf supreme does not even interest me anymore. Objectively speaking MBGOs or MBGH-1s are just more transparent, detailed, have better soundsgate, and are smoother Et cetera. I would love to compare some NOS caps to some top of the line modern caps some time like Jupiter or Duelund but they are just prohibitively expensive.
 
If you have 300 dollars to spend I would encourage experimentation. With that amount of money you can just go and buy some different NOS caps off eBay and experiment. Ultimately it is about finding the best combination of caps. If you do decide to go that route be sure to report back to us

.

Jasper,
 
This post is not intended to contradict your evaluation, but just to note that every system is different and will respond differently to different caps.
 
I read with interest your evaluation of the MBGO and MBGCH-1.  I remembered that I had a pair of MBGO on hand that I had never gotten around to trying.  So I decided to try them in a little coupling cap comparison with Mundorf Supreme, Jantzen Superior Z, and Audyn Plus caps (all caps that were sitting in my spares box and of the same 1 uF value).
 
Overall, my feeling of the character of the MBGOs is very similar to yours.  Soundstage is quite good and so is detail and transparency.  They are a bit weak in bass, as you describe.  The difference for me comes in the mid-range.  In my system, the MBGOs are too strong in mids, a little like you turned down the bass and treble controls.  The result is that the MBGOs seem a bit thin and shouting which is tiresome for longer listening sessions.  In that way, the Jantzen and Audyn Plus have a bit of the same issue to a lesser degree.  In contrast, the Mundorf is a bit laid back and seems very neutral in this system.
 
I'm sure the differences I am hearing are differences between my system and yours.  That is to be expected.  As others have said, audio is like cooking.  You need to combine the right flavors for that particular dish to get good taste.  Each dish is a unique combination and there is no right answer.  I hope you keep trying things and sharing the results.
 
In the meantime, I will still order some MBGCH-1s, just to see how their flavor combines in my dish.
 
Jac

 

[mcandmar]

From what i have read the H designation seems to be for variable frequency operation, where as the regular caps are indented for fixed frequencies.  My take on that is the regulars are more suited for filtering 50 or 60hz ripple in power supply duty, where as the -H versions are most suited to decoupling a wider range of frequencies, i.e. used in radio equipment etc.
 
That could also be utter b#@@#ks as nobody really knows

 

 

[Jasper9395]

 
Jasper,
 
This post is not intended to contradict your evaluation, but just to note that every system is different and will respond differently to different caps.
 
I read with interest your evaluation of the MBGO and MBGCH-1.  I remembered that I had a pair of MBGO on hand that I had never gotten around to trying.  So I decided to try them in a little coupling cap comparison with Mundorf Supreme, Jantzen Superior Z, and Audyn Plus caps (all caps that were sitting in my spares box and of the same 1 uF value).
 
Overall, my feeling of the character of the MBGOs is very similar to yours.  Soundstage is quite good and so is detail and transparency.  They are a bit weak in bass, as you describe.  The difference for me comes in the mid-range.  In my system, the MBGOs are too strong in mids, a little like you turned down the bass and treble controls.  The result is that the MBGOs seem a bit thin and shouting which is tiresome for longer listening sessions.  In that way, the Jantzen and Audyn Plus have a bit of the same issue to a lesser degree.  In contrast, the Mundorf is a bit laid back and seems very neutral in this system.
 
I'm sure the differences I am hearing are differences between my system and yours.  That is to be expected.  As others have said, audio is like cooking.  You need to combine the right flavors for that particular dish to get good taste.  Each dish is a unique combination and there is no right answer.  I hope you keep trying things and sharing the results.
 
In the meantime, I will still order some MBGCH-1s, just to see how their flavor combines in my dish.
 
Jac

 
Hi Jac,
 
Your findings are quite interesting, it may well be that the MBGOs are more mid range focused than I had thought. I have been working on my system a lot resulting in constant changes to it's sound signature so it can be difficult to judge the frequency balance of the caps. I do find it surprising that you get more treble with the Mundorf Supremes though. I found these caps had quite some roll-off in the treble whereas the MBGOs were more extended. Which MBGO caps were you working with? I used the MBGO-2 but I have also seen MBGO-1 and MBGO-3 caps, perhaps there have a different signature.
 
Unfortunately more cap impressions form me will have to wait for a while as I am moving countries atm. Anyway, hope to hear about your impression of the MBGCH-1 soon.

  From what i have read the H designation seems to be for variable frequency operation, where as the regular caps are indented for fixed frequencies.  My take on that is the regulars are more suited for filtering 50 or 60hz ripple in power supply duty, where as the -H versions are most suited to decoupling a wider range of frequencies, i.e. used in radio equipment etc.
 
That could also be utter b#@@#ks as nobody really knows

 

 
I've also heard about the MBGO caps being used in power supplies. I've not tried it myself though. I think the caps with only letter designations are part of an older classification system though. At least that is what I understood from the video I liked before.

 

[lehmanhill]

   
Hi Jac,
 
Your findings are quite interesting, it may well be that the MBGOs are more mid range focused than I had thought. I have been working on my system a lot resulting in constant changes to it's sound signature so it can be difficult to judge the frequency balance of the caps. I do find it surprising that you get more treble with the Mundorf Supremes though. I found these caps had quite some roll-off in the treble whereas the MBGOs were more extended. Which MBGO caps were you working with? I used the MBGO-2 but I have also seen MBGO-1 and MBGO-3 caps, perhaps there have a different signature.
 

 
My mistake.  Sorry.  I had remembered those as MBGO, but looking at enough pictures to sort out the Russian lettering, it turns out that they are OKBG-MH.  From what I understand, they are similar, but obviously can and do sound different than the MBGO-2.  Not sure what they were designed for, but not my favorite for audio, at least in my system. 
 
That makes me even more interested in trying the -CH caps you tried.
 
Sorry again for not being more careful.
 
Jac

 

[Jasper9395]

Hi Jac,
 
No need to be apologetic. At least this clears things up.

 

[Johan-71]

Day 2 with Audyn true copper cap 0.22 uF as coupling cap and 0.33 uF as decoupling to my KT88 push pull class A amp.
I can't stop listening, missed my youngest sons football match last night (sorry son but daddy had to work late). A huge step up from the Ruskie Pio I've been trying .
I suddenly got a twice as big living room and at least 8 feet more to the sealing . Have to double check that the suroundspeakers not connected .
Am I biased? H@ll yes.
Happy? My wife asked me what I've been smoking...
Ok,let's put it this way I've got 3 different quads of Kt88 and 4 different 12SL7 pairs and the biggest and probably the cheapest upgrade I've done is to change the caps .
At the moment I have 10-12 hours on them and I'm satisfied , no itching to go down to the cave and the solderstation.
Just enjoy hours of god music.

Johan

 

[jazzwave]

I rolled 0.22uF caps in my 300B SE amp,listen trough speaker not cans.
 
Starting from  Siemens ->Russian PIO->Mundorf Supreme->Mundorf SG0->Jensen Coper Foil paper case->Vcap CuTF-> back again to Mundorf SG0 (installed for almost 1 year).
In my system all caps above delivered different sound signature.Jensen Coper Foil paper case and Vcap CuTF has transparent, but in my amp the Jensen made the sound laid back to much.
 
I love what Mundorf SGO did,musical ,enjoyable, delivered good bass mid, treble.....with this cap I enjoy listen the music not monitoring sound of every instrument or vocal.
I didn't care of instruments (guitar, piano etc) sound accurate or not.... I become "normal" person who can enjoy the music not check the sound...
 
 
~ron~
 
note:
Duelund Cast Cu Copper, arrived..

 

[NightFlight]

  Hi,
in your DIY capacitor burn-in setup, what resistor value do you use?
And what signal type do you use? Perhaps white noise signal?
Many thanks. Best regards.
Davide.

 
+1
 
Looking for same info. I've got some Mundorf EVO SGO I want to put some time on and some speaker taps waiting. I have a 270ohm 5watt cement available. I guess throw on 60hz and watch the voltage drop across the resistor?

 

[lehmanhill]

RIKE S-CAP Caution
 
I reviewed and recommended the Rike S-Cap earlier in this thread.  I can't disclose the source, but there is a possibility that later builds of the S-Cap don't sound the same as the early build parts I reviewed.  I don't want to condemn Rike, after all, it could be an issue with an individual cap, but since I recommended them on this forum, I thought I should suggest caution in future purchases of the S-Cap.

 

[JamesBr]

  RIKE S-CAP Caution
 
I reviewed and recommended the Rike S-Cap earlier in this thread.  I can't disclose the source, but there is a possibility that later builds of the S-Cap don't sound the same as the early build parts I reviewed.  I don't want to condemn Rike, after all, it could be an issue with an individual cap, but since I recommended them on this forum, I thought I should suggest caution in future purchases of the S-Cap.

Good point! Humble!

 

[samoloko]

how would you rate different MBGO, MBGO 2, MBGCH etc

 

[Jasper9395]

  how would you rate different MBGO, MBGO 2, MBGCH etc

The names of the caps are written on the sides in Russian lettering. Just search for them on ebay and you will see the difference.

 

[samoloko]

Jasper
thank you for reply
I already used MBGO 2 as a power decoupling cap and find them as very liquid and bloomy bass sounding
I try to find the most neutral from MBGO types
which type and ratio of bypass do you recommend with MBGO

 

[samoloko]

I did some search about old PIO from Rusia
from various reviewers reports looks like KBG-MN Is best Rusia PIO

 

[lehmanhill]

A New Industrial, mid-price Cap.  Cornell Dubilier 942C
 

 
A little while ago, I stopped by Tony Gee's Capacitor Reviews and found he recommended a new cap, the CDE 940C.  Since I was going to place an order for parts anyway, I looked for and found them at Mouser.  While researching Tony's 940C, I also found the 942C.
 
The 942C is an interesting construction.  It is a combination of metalized Polypropylene and film/foil Polypropylene.  So I decided to order both the 940C and the 942C at 1 uF as coupling caps.  Tony as already given a very good review of the 940C, so I will just say that I found similar results, the 940C is a very neutral cap for a good price.
 
One thing that I appreciate in a cap are those caps that bring out the dynamics in the music.  Some of the Mundorf Supreme line do that very nicely.  The Rike S-Caps I have seem to do that as well.  I'm sure there are other premium caps that are great at this, but a Supreme Silver Oil and a True Copper are as premium as I have experienced.
 
The 942C was a pleasant surprise in the dynamics department.  It has a nice frequency balance, fairly neutral across the range with perhaps a touch of emphasis in the treble range.  There is good bass, a solid mid-range that is neither warm nor cool, nice detail, and a good sound stage.  But it also has a nice sense of dynamics and that makes it attractive to me, especially at this price point.
 
I put it in the photo with the Mundorf Supreme because I think it has a character that is quite a bit like the Supreme, but at about half the price.  Of course, neither of these caps is a world beater, but they are very good mid-range caps.  I also showed both in the photo to show the size of the 942C.  It's huge!
 
Crossover
 
Based on my listening results as a coupling cap, I decided to include the 942C in a tweeter crossover project.  For a total value of 10 uF, I used two 940C at 4.7 uF each and a 0.68 uF 942C in a tweeter crossover.  This worked as I had hoped and gave me a clear tweeter sound and nice dynamics.
 
After completing the speakers, I went back and listened to several coupling caps on the amplifier.  That brought me a bit of a surprise.  When using the 942C as coupling cap and crossover cap, the result was a strained tweeter response.  It's true that this particular tweeter also has a peak from 7 to 10kHz, so it may be that the caps, combined with the tweeter peak, were too strong.  That said, other coupling caps were fine, so it proves again that you can have too much of a good thing.
 
Overall, I find the 942C to be an excellent value and an excellent choice for many projects.  As always, systems vary and you have to be careful how you mix together different components, but I recommend giving the 942C a try.