[Surf Monkey]

Wow. Ordered the X1a through e-infini and it got here (Portland, Oregon) from Hong Kong in fewer than 72 hours. Impressive.

Unboxing now...

 

[IronFly]

In the case of Poweramp, the author put out an alpha release specifically written for the Onkyo/Pioneer DAC.

Sorry but where is that specific poweramp release?
I never seen it, even in the official forum

 

[Evilcartman]

I am sorrry but none of this makes sense...
if fiio x5iii dac which is ak4490... they confirm all audio signal will process through their dac even from 3rd party...

I dont see why Onkyo unable to do that?

I CAN, it just doesn't. Because it was not "programmed to" simple as that.

The Fiio X5iii is actually a 5 year old LG Android phone (Lucid 3) with the added audio hardware. I would take it with a grain of salt that everything runs through that DAC. I only kept it for a week but the sound was inferior to my Wolfson ipod/muses 02 combo. And Poweramp did not indicate is was using the hardware. It choked on HiRes files which is a good indication it was using the ancient CPU rather than the dac as well..

If the phone is processing all the audio ( big if) , then the app must be told not to. Aurally dumb apps would pipe the audio to the system, but an app that does any processing ( eq, dsp etc..) must be written and updated to use the hardware, or at least specified not to process it and send it to the system for decoding. otherwise it will just use the standard Android instruction set. I seriously doubt that Fiio got this right when LG didn't. They couldn't even get their stock player working properly. it is much more likely that they are simply being inaccurate about it.

Mind you, I do not know how any of this is implemented. I am simply explaining how it may or may not be so. I am starting from the premise that the authors of said apps are correct and that their apps are using software Android decoding ( Neutron and Poweramp) , and that the software indicators are also correct. It is very likely that any player app will still need to support the player specifically and be updated. It is also possible that the DAC, while being used, is not being fully utilized, This was the case with the Qualcomm WCD9xx phones. Audio was going through the DAC but not getting the full benefit, probably by using a simplified instruction set. Like a Bluray player outputting SD video to match the tv. ( not perfect analogy i know)

One thing I do know: you won't get reliable answers from marketing or support. They prob. don't know any more than you do. And it is not in their best interest to be truthful. That Onkyo post is vaguely worded at best. Also, I doubt that my ears could tell the difference between single and dual dac usage. I went with this one for the dual amps, not dual dacs. The XDP-100r couldn't drive my headphones and I am tired of carrying a stack around.


EDIT: also, a good place to ask these questions might be the XDADev forums. Some of the guys who actually code audio for Android may have very specific answers for you.

Also, I have a EE friend to designs and makes Oscilloscopes. I am going to ask him if DAC characteristics or decoding method can be identified by analyzing the output spectrum. That would be cool. Or maybe the device logs. It would be nice if the DAC api showed up on the battery usage meter.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I'm up and running. Transferred about 800 songs to the internal storage and gave it a whirl. In balanced mode this thing sounds fantastic! Listening to The Orb right now and it's amazing. A massive upgrade for my Campfire Jupiters for sure. This DAP is really bringing out the crystal highs and meaty lows.

 

[Evilcartman]

Sorry but where is that specific poweramp release?
I never seen it, even in the official forum

It's the 703/704 Alpha

 

[Surf Monkey]

Some observations:

The Sabre DACs are bypassed in third party apps for sure. I loaded up my Apple Music account on it and ran some test tracks. They had various levels of digital artifacting, which surprised me. I would have figured the 8XX on board DAC would have done at lease as good as the one in Apple's lightning to 3.5mm jack, but no. Worse. Granted, I haven't dug through all the settings yet, so I may have something configured wrong.

Regardless, the same tracks sound amazing through the Onkyo Music app using Jupiters balanced in ACG mode.

I know I have the right player in my hands because a lot of the files I put on it I considered pretty mediocre. Every one of them really comes alive when it's running through the dual Sabres.

It's is a shame that only the Onkyo native app can access the hardware, and the X-Dap for Mac application is major "zero features ware." But given the outstanding performance of the DAP itself I think I can live with it. At least for now. My library is vast, so I don't need to stream a whole lot, and should the need arise I'll take the steps to root this baby.

 

[NickL33]

Some observations:

The Sabre DACs are bypassed in third party apps for sure. I loaded up my Apple Music account on it and ran some test tracks. They had various levels of digital artifacting, which surprised me. I would have figured the 8XX on board DAC would have done at lease as good as the one in Apple's lightning to 3.5mm jack, but no. Worse. Granted, I haven't dug through all the settings yet, so I may have something configured wrong.

Regardless, the same tracks sound amazing through the Onkyo Music app using Jupiters balanced in ACG mode.

I know I have the right player in my hands because a lot of the files I put on it I considered pretty mediocre. Every one of them really comes alive when it's running through the dual Sabres.

It's is a shame that only the Onkyo native app can access the hardware, and the X-Dap for Mac application is major "zero features ware." But given the outstanding performance of the DAP itself I think I can live with it. At least for now. My library is vast, so I don't need to stream a whole lot, and should the need arise I'll take the steps to root this baby.

This is not really good news....
For me i if i get the dpx1a, i will used the own player anyway...

Important question is sometimes some song i will need to play from spotify... How does it sounf from spotify?

 

[IronFly]

It's the 703/704 Alpha

Nope, it's not specific for Onkyo or Pioneer, since the release is older then the 2 devices and high res works only if you root and modify build.prop.

 

[Asspirin]

Important question is sometimes some song i will need to play from spotify... How does it sounf from spotify?

Really good!

 

[Evilcartman]

Nope, it's not specific for Onkyo or Pioneer, since the release is older then the 2 devices and high res works only if you root and modify build.prop.

You have to root and modify also, but that's the version that works. The is no version that works without root yet. Supposedly version 3 will. But that is very late and may never come out. The alphas work by tricking Poweramp into think that the Onk is the Meizu player, which is supported.

As far as Spotify, why do people even use streaming in general? I am really asking. Because to me, it is the worst of both worlds. Made sense when storage was at a premium, but now with storage being so cheap, and not having to buy entire albums anymore, why stream at all. All i can think of is that people discover new music. But once you do that, get the better quality.

I get the idea of paying for a service, but not for the same songs over and over again. It would be like paying for Netflix but just watching the same movie over and over.

I have not even filled one SD card up and I have 6000 hi res and lossless tracks. Two weeks of non-stop music at much better quality than streaming. I could easily triple that and still have it all on the player. Plus I have complete control over the music.

 

[snafu1]

You have to root and modify also, but that's the version that works. The is no version that works without root yet. Supposedly version 3 will. But that is very late and may never come out. The alphas work by tricking Poweramp into think that the Onk is the Meizu player, which is supported.

As far as Spotify, why do people even use streaming in general? I am really asking. Because to me, it is the worst of both worlds. Made sense when storage was at a premium, but now with storage being so cheap, and not having to buy entire albums anymore, why stream at all. All i can think of is that people discover new music. But once you do that, get the better quality.

I get the idea of paying for a service, but not for the same songs over and over again. It would be like paying for Netflix but just watching the same movie over and over.

I have not even filled one SD card up and I have 6000 hi res and lossless tracks. Two weeks of non-stop music at much better quality than streaming. I could easily triple that and still have it all on the player. Plus I have complete control over the music.

Also, I agree with you 100% about paying for streaming music. I use (free) Pandora to discover new artists and then purchase the songs/albums I like in order to have the best SQ.

RE: Rooting the DP-X1. I looked into this and kingroot seems to be what most are using. But, personally I hate to install 3rd party apps that are not from the Play store. Do you know of another way to root the Onkyo?

 

[XVortex]

TWRP + custom fw or supersu TWRP package (even more "scary" but very clean method).

 

[DBaldock9]

TWRP + custom fw or supersu TWRP package (even more "scary" but very clean method).

I used your directions (and file downloads), from sometime waaaaaay back last year, for rooting my DP-X1.
Worked well to allow Viper4Android FX to install & run, and I've also got Xposed Framework installed, to do all kinds of rooty things.

 

[Evilcartman]

Also, I agree with you 100% about paying for streaming music. I use (free) Pandora to discover new artists and then purchase the songs/albums I like in order to have the best SQ.

RE: Rooting the DP-X1. I looked into this and kingroot seems to be what most are using. But, personally I hate to install 3rd party apps that are not from the Play store. Do you know of another way to root the Onkyo?

Thanks to XVortex for all the pathfinding he did. All the files came from him too. He even created a custom minimal firmware for the Onkyo which is very awesome. Rooting by USB is very easy and WAY less scary then all the crap Kingroot leaves on your device.
One you install TWERP it isn't scary at all. You can always boot back into twerp and restore your device. TWERP is a custom recovery program that replaces the stock ( and confusing) recovery mode for android with an easy to understand big buttons). It is the very first thing you put on your device and will auto root from there. You can even boot into twerp without installing (tethered) and once you're in TWERP, save it and also install superSU.

You don't need the super huge and annoyingly slow to install Android SDK. Just the tiny fastboot folder and usb driver. Launch the command prompt inside the fastboot folder to make sure it uses those versions. When you connect you player to usb in recovery mode, use the included usb driver for windows, the google one doesn't work. XVortex provided me these links:


TWRP recovery and players apk's will work on both players. Custom Lite firmware is for DP-X1 only.
Here is the links:
TWRP: https://mega.nz/#!k1EniTZT!Vc68r9kIERjt4MePfG-bCgveAWSpIWvXvw6skHskpL4
APK's: https://mega.nz/#!Fs9jQB6Z!uM78uuilH6rELKcK-kDHAJlzLtAe_7QFv5RudAuPbGw
https://mega.nz/#!U51j1J7S!Wu0YFLlLAv-nRyILrBUs-2dhfiuTNCR0O2Pr8T4-oBw
DPX1 custom firmware: https://mega.nz/#!BoUTmJ5Z!n2k5ArOa7sUzUVfmDUHCrmTjCVC8bvL_3Dpoe_Pit4o
Root package for TWRP: https://mega.nz/#!9hdiVbwA!5-X_kYt2A8icgGOWEwIT8Xb4WF--wan7m3AT_GLcddU
Viper4android package for TWRP: https://mega.nz/#!w1cDRCBb!oydWeFF_jMkWOPgvHs3u40JzW1nK6UUrcVtBpSapj2I

 

[Evilcartman]

I really wish both amps could be combined and used in single ended mode on this player. That would give it power to drive just about any headphone needed. I doubt that is something that could be done via firmware .

I cut off the end of my hi-fi man headphone cable and soldered on a TRRS plug. I was taking a gamble that the cable would contain four wires indeed it did. So for a seven dollar plug I have a balanced headphone cable, and this little box can drive the HiFMans, with a little bit of room to spare.
.
Strangely, I think the Oppo PM3 sound a lot better. This was surprising. It could be my lousy soldering job. The high-end is definitely a little hot and I'll have to play around with the EQ settings. It's not that bright in single ended mode.

I am surprised that the sound characteristics of the balance ouput are so different from the same device.