[Red Dragon]

I am looking to improve my sound system to the maximum extent possible with a budget of $1000 USD. The primary functions I will use my sound for are gaming and watching movies. I strongly prefer speakers over headphones, so I use speakers most of the time. Below I have bolded my questions, between comments about their context. I'd appreciate any answers that can clear up my confusion and/or increase my knowledge and/or help me to buy the best items.

I am using a computer with terrible onboard RealTek audio that is integrated into a motherboard that was released in 2015. I know very little about sound, except that in my opinion, RealTek onboard audio is still trash. I have read & heard many people on the internet say things like "onboard audio has come a long way," and "you may not need a soundcard," but based on my experience, no, it hasn't, and yes I do! Before I switched to this new computer, I was using a Soundblaster Audigy card that was more than twelve years old. That old Audigy card sounded way better than the new RealTek one. I was shocked at how extremely awful the RealTek audio is, in light of many comments on the internet which claim RealTek is good now.

So, one thing I need to buy is either an internal soundcard, or an external dac/amp.

Before I joined this site, I searched the internet for advice about which is better. Most of what I found said that a soundcard would be the worst solution and an external dac/amp would be the best solution.

However, this point confuses me, because when I look at some well-regarded sound cards, they seem to have better specs when compared to well-regarded external dac/amps.

For example: the Asus Essence STX II lists a spec of 124dB SNR. In contrast, the Schitt Jotunheim lists a spec of 109dB SNR. This leads to my first twos questions:

Question #1: Are external amps/dacs truly better than internal soundcards?

Question #2: If the answer to Question #1 is "Yes," then why does the Jotunheim have a worse SNR spec than the STX II (especially since the Jotunheim costs more)?

My next problem is speakers. Right now my computer connects with RCA cables to an a Kenwood stereo system that is nearly twenty years old. It cost me less than $400 when I originally bought it. I want to upgrade to much better speakers. I was considering the JBL305s since they seem to be universally regarded as great for their price.

However, if I buy the JBL305s and use them instead of my Kenwood system, I think that would cause me to lose some important functions that my Kenwood system currently provides. For example, I can set my Kenwood system to turn on automatically at a set time and then play the radio station that I choose (in other words, it's a customizable alarm clock). It also plays the radio in general.

This problem leads me to my next questions:

Question #3: Should I stop considering the JBL305's because they would cause me problems with keeping my radio alarm clock function?

Question #4: Should I stick with the JBL305s, and solve that problem by adding a receiver with a radio alarm clock function?

Question #5: Most of the receivers I've looked at online do not include a radio alarm clock function. Why is this feature so rare?

Question #6: Is there another way to solve the problem of keeping my radio alarm clock function that I didn't think of?

Another problem I have is: which soundcard to buy (presuming I buy a soundcard)? I have read that the STX II does not feature positional audio in games. I am not a professional gamer, but I do play competitive games online and I like to win often. At the same time, I do not want to sacrifice a lot of sound quality just to get a soundcard that features positional audio, unless positional audio is a really big deal in terms of winning or losing a game.

Question #7: Is the STX II okay for competitive online multiplayer games even though it doesn't have positional audio?

Finally, I want to know what are the best possible products I can buy within my budget, so my questions about that are:

Question #8: For $1000 USD, what are the best-in-class products I can buy that include all of the following:

a) A soundcard OR an external dac/amp (I'll go with whichever one will give me the best sound quality)

b) A receiver (if I need it...you tell me?)

c) Speakers

Thank you.

 

[Red Dragon]

Hey everyone. I really hate to bump my own thread. But it fell away before receiving any responses. So if I did not bump it, then it would probably have remained buried forever and thus be guaranteed never to receive any responses.

I have no idea how to resolve the confusions described in my OP here. The only way I will be able to do so is if people with knowledge share it with me. I would very much appreciate if anyone will answer the questions I asked in the OP.

 

[Music Alchemist]

I own and love the JBL LSR305. They're active speakers with amps inside, so you don't need an amp for them.

For a DAC/amp (which you can also use with headphones if desired), the Schiit Fulla 2 is a great value. However, it only has 3.5 mm outputs on the back, so you'd have to get cables that are 3.5 mm on one end and whatever you need on the other. When you use the variable DAC output and control the volume with the Fulla 2, it uses its amp, which colors the signal more. It's better to bypass its amp by connecting its fixed DAC output (via a 3.5 mm to dual RCA cable) to a passive preamp like the Schiit SYS, which you can then connect to the speakers via RCA to XLR cables. (You could alternately get a more conventional dedicated DAC and use it with the SYS.)

For cables, I recommend Monoprice. (Look up the ones listed on my profile, for example.)

For the radio and gaming features you want, I'd go for software solutions, personally. You don't need a receiver for that.

You should also take room acoustics into account. This is a complex topic that you could research for a long time (especially room treatments), so I won't get into it here. I'll just mention that it's a good idea to use speaker stands (I use the Samson MS200) and experiment in your listening room to find your ideal placement and position.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Hey everyone. I really hate to bump my own thread. But it fell away before receiving any responses. So if I did not bump it, then it would probably have remained buried forever and thus be guaranteed never to receive any responses.

I have no idea how to resolve the confusions described in my OP here. The only way I will be able to do so is if people with knowledge share it with me. I would very much appreciate if anyone will answer the questions I asked in the OP.

Internal sound cards (the analog part) can pick up electical noise that might be generated inside the computer case.
Sending the audio signal out of the computer case (USB, optical, coaxial) while it is still digital, protects (mostly) agains electircal noise (inside the computer case)

As you appear to be wanting to use a stereo (2-channel) speaker setup, you really have no need for sound card features (like surround sound)
It might help to know the model of the Kenwood?
My current thinking is you can get an external DAC (USB, optical, coaxial) to connect between the computer and the analog (RCA?) inputs on the Kenwoood.
Then buy a really nice pair of speakers (book shelf or tower) to connect to the Kenwoood.

Not against you saving money and just buying the JBL LSR305 ($250-$275) and a external DAC ($50-$150) and not using the Kenwood.

 

[Red Dragon]

Internal sound cards (the analog part) can pick up electical noise that might be generated inside the computer case.
Sending the audio signal out of the computer case (USB, optical, coaxial) while it is still digital, protects (mostly) against electircal noise (inside the computer case)

As you appear to be wanting to use a stereo (2-channel) speaker setup, you really have no need for sound card features (like surround sound)

It might help to know the model of the Kenwood?

My current thinking is you can get an external DAC (USB, optical, coaxial) to connect between the computer and the analog (RCA?) inputs on the Kenwoood.

Then buy a really nice pair of speakers (book shelf or tower) to connect to the Kenwoood.

Not against you saving money and just buying the JBL LSR305 ($250-$275) and a external DAC ($50-$150) and not using the Kenwood.

Thanks for the help, Music Alchemist and PurpleAngel.

The Kenwood model is XD-550.

Are there any reasons why it would be in my best interest to keep using the Kenwood? Or is ditching the Kenwood definitely my best option?

If I did keep using the Kenwood, then would good speakers sound bad with it, due to its receiver being bad and therefore bottlenecking the speakers' sound quality?

Even if I don't use surround sound, would I still need other sound card features like EAX in order to game properly? For example, my perception, which could be wrong, is that EAX allows me to do things like hear which from direction an enemy's footsteps come. If I bought the STX II, does that mean that I'd be gimped because I'd be unable to hear the direction of an enemy's footsteps?

In regards to the point of electrical noise with sound cards, even though that is true, would I still not obtain higher sound quality if I were to buy the STX II with its electrical shield, as opposed to something like the Schitt Jotunheim, since the Jotunheim has a worse SNR (I still do not understand why the Jotunheim has a higher price than STX II, even though the Jotunheim has a worse SNR)? Or am I missing something: is there a reason why the Jotunheim would sound better despite its lower SNR?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Why are you interested in the Jotunheim? It's a headphone amp. The optional DAC is just an add-on for convenience, but the Modi Multibit standalone DAC (for example) is better.

Anyway, SNR is only a tiny part of the total sound. Just look at the distortion specs: under 0.001%. I think that's good enough for ya.

 

[Red Dragon]

Why are you interested in the Jotunheim?

I am interested in the Jotunheim due to a combination of the following reasons:

1. When it comes to buying sound equipment, other than in regards to internal PC soundcards, I have no idea what I'm doing. [And even with soundcards, I barely know what I'm doing].

2. When I tried to search the internet and/or youtube for advice about how to get the best sound quality from a PC, most of said advice seems to be "external amps/dacs are better than internal soundcards."

3. Due to point #2, I in turn searched for advice about the best external amp/dac. That led me to strong recommendations for the Jotunheim (including the HeadFi review of it).

4. Due to point #3, I deduced that the Jotunheim might be the best-in-class item that I can buy within my budget.

But after reading your post there, I learned that apparently my reasoning is flawed, which is probably because I have no idea what I'm doing, and therefore I made erroneous conclusions.

I believe your feedback that contrary to my previous assumption, the Jotunheim is not best for me.

However, I still confused as to whether:

Would any of the external amps/dacs that have been recommended for me in this thread sound better than an STX II? Or would an STX II sound better than any reasonably-priced external amp/dac?

 

[Music Alchemist]

You will almost certainly prefer a quality DAC over a sound card if you are able to spend enough time comparing with some of the better DACs.

Have you decided on which type of speakers (and headphones, if applicable) you want to go with? This will determine the auxiliary components you need.

 

[Red Dragon]

You will almost certainly prefer a quality DAC over a sound card if you are able to spend enough time comparing with some of the better DACs.

Have you decided on which type of speakers (and headphones, if applicable) you want to go with? This will determine the auxiliary components you need.

But I am unable to determine whether a DAC is "quality" or not, or compare them, because I do not understand the words and numbers that are used to describe them. Information that is given about DACs seems to presuppose the reader already holds knowledge about the audio world. Even when I read articles that are supposed to give the basics about DACs/AMPs, much of what they say goes over my head. And they omit other pertinent information that I need, such as, they never provide me with a clear answer as to how to read and compare specs amongst different DACs and/or soundcards. Except that they told me only one means of comparison: they say higher SNR results in better sound. Yet in contrast, you told me higher SNR doesn't matter that much. So now I don't even know what I am supposed to do with the SNR spec.

When I compare soundcard specs to DAC specs (i.e. STX II vs. Jotunheim), to my eyes the soundcard specs look better, even though maybe they aren't?

I think I will go with the JBL LSR305 speakers because as far as I can tell, they are the best sound quality I can get for speakers in their price range. However, if I am wrong about that and someone can recommend better speakers within the same price range, then I would go with the better speakers instead. Are the 305's the best option?

Adding to my confusions is this soundcard:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3200...d-blasterx-ae-5-ups-the-audio-for-gamers.html

Is that soundcard going to sound better than any DACs that I could buy for the same amount of money? Or are there DACs that cost the same that will sound better than that soundcard?

Similarly, is that soundcard going to be better than the STX II?

 

[Music Alchemist]

Specs don't tell you how it will sound. (Those who say DACs with "sufficient" specs will all sound the same don't know what they're talking about.)

Your best course of action if you can't audition things in advance is to seek out advice and reviews from those who have heard DACs in your price range.

I highly doubt any sound card could sound better than the ($249) Schiit Modi Multibit. It is most likely the best you can get for that price. (I used to own it.)

On the other hand, if you're going to spend under $200 on the DAC, I think you should just get something under $100 until you decide to make a more major upgrade. Go for whatever has the features you want, but bear in mind that some sound card features can be done with free software.

I really don't know how the LSR305 compares to other speakers in its price range, since it's the only pair of good speakers I own, but many say it is competitive with more expensive ones.

You'll also need to plan how your cable connections will work. Just ask if you need help with that.

 

[theveterans]

But I am unable to determine whether a DAC is "quality" or not, or compare them, because I do not understand the words and numbers that are used to describe them. Information that is given about DACs seems to presuppose the reader already holds knowledge about the audio world. Even when I read articles that are supposed to give the basics about DACs/AMPs, much of what they say goes over my head. And they omit other pertinent information that I need, such as, they never provide me with a clear answer as to how to read and compare specs amongst different DACs and/or soundcards. Except that they told me only one means of comparison: they say higher SNR results in better sound. Yet in contrast, you told me higher SNR doesn't matter that much. So now I don't even know what I am supposed to do with the SNR spec.

When I compare soundcard specs to DAC specs (i.e. STX II vs. Jotunheim), to my eyes the soundcard specs look better, even though maybe they aren't?

I think I will go with the JBL LSR305 speakers because as far as I can tell, they are the best sound quality I can get for speakers in their price range. However, if I am wrong about that and someone can recommend better speakers within the same price range, then I would go with the better speakers instead. Are the 305's the best option?

Adding to my confusions is this soundcard:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3200...d-blasterx-ae-5-ups-the-audio-for-gamers.html

Is that soundcard going to sound better than any DACs that I could buy for the same amount of money? Or are there DACs that cost the same that will sound better than that soundcard?

Similarly, is that soundcard going to be better than the STX II?

For 2/3 of the price of the Yamaha HS7s per pair that I have, I'd say yes. I do like the look of my Yamaha HS7s than the JBL's though.

As for DACs, only gripe with sound cards is that its performance will depend on the shielding and clean power delivery from the PSU. Also soundcards can't have a discrete component implementation so they use op-amps instead due to space constraints. Good external DACs however, use discrete components (i.e. components that make a discrete circuit for amplification rather than an "integrated circuit on a chip" aka op-amp) to provide better sound in theory. Then again, it boils down to your ears whether you can hear a difference or not. If there is, you choose the sound you prefer whether you prefer the sound of your sound card or the external DAC.

The thing with our hearing is that we have our own preferences. For example, the Bifrost Multibit is only 16 bits resolution which translates to 96 dB SNR, yet I prefer its sound over many other DACs that have 32-bit DAC chips, DSD playback, etc. The same DAC may sound good to me, but flat for you and vice versa. On my preamp, I prefer the sound of valve buffer stage (valves have a much less accuracy than solid state) than the best spec solid state preamp. IMO, try them all and build your system from the sound you like, couldn't care less about specs UNLESS you will use it for mixing tracks. Then you will aim for the specs such as lowest THD+N, highest SNR, frequency response in +/- 2 or 3 dB, etc.

 

[Red Dragon]

Why are you interested in the Jotunheim? It's a headphone amp. The optional DAC is just an add-on for convenience, but the Modi Multibit standalone DAC (for example) is better.

I've been keeping this statement in mind as I looked at the Schitt website again.

Aren't all the Schitt products designed for headphones though? I see a lot of them listing "headphone" in their descriptions, but I don't see any of them listing "speaker" in their descriptions.

Another question: might the Jotunheim produce better sound quality than the Modi Multibit because the Jotunheim has balanced XLR connectors and the Modi only has unbalanced RCA connectors? [Unless I am misunderstanding something...but my perception is that balanced XLR is better than unbalanced RCA?]

I've also realized that Schitt products don't have mic jacks. I've seen people recommend to get around that problem with USB mics. If I use a USB mic at the same time as a Schitt product, does that mean that the mic would not be using the Schitt product's sound hardware? If so, that seems pretty sucky?

 

[Music Alchemist]

I've been keeping this statement in mind as I looked at the Schitt website again.

Aren't all the Schitt products designed for headphones though? I see a lot of them listing "headphone" in their descriptions, but I don't see any of them listing "speaker" in their descriptions.

Another question: might the Jotunheim produce better sound quality than the Modi Multibit because the Jotunheim has balanced XLR connectors and the Modi only has unbalanced RCA connectors? [Unless I am misunderstanding something...but my perception is that balanced XLR is better than unbalanced RCA?]

I've also realized that Schitt products don't have mic jacks. I've seen people recommend to get around that problem with USB mics. If I use a USB mic with a Schitt product, does that mean that the mic would not be using the Schitt product's sound hardware? If so, that seems pretty sucky?

Their headphones amps are obviously for headphones, but DACs can be used with headphones or speakers as long as you have an amp to power those headphones and speakers.

The AK4490 DAC in the Jotunheim (which you'd have to pay $500 for since it's only available as an add-on for the amp) is the same DAC as the ones in the $99 Modi 2 and Fulla 2. The Modi Multibit is much better. I already told you that.

By the way, you can use your computer's onboard DAC without getting an external DAC or sound card. (Such as by connecting a 3.5 mm to dual XLR cable from the headphone jack to the XLR inputs on active speakers.) Depending on its quality, you may not even hear a difference between it and an entry-level DAC. This is an option that can make things easier on your budget starting out.

I don't know much about microphones.

 

[Dulalala]

I've been keeping this statement in mind as I looked at the Schitt website again.

Aren't all the Schitt products designed for headphones though? I see a lot of them listing "headphone" in their descriptions, but I don't see any of them listing "speaker" in their descriptions.

Another question: might the Jotunheim produce better sound quality than the Modi Multibit because the Jotunheim has balanced XLR connectors and the Modi only has unbalanced RCA connectors? [Unless I am misunderstanding something...but my perception is that balanced XLR is better than unbalanced RCA?]

I've also realized that Schitt products don't have mic jacks. I've seen people recommend to get around that problem with USB mics. If I use a USB mic at the same time as a Schitt product, does that mean that the mic would not be using the Schitt product's sound hardware? If so, that seems pretty sucky?

Schiit has specific pre-amp products for speakers like the Saga. Their headphone amps, are made for headphones, not speakers.

The type of connection used has nothing to do with the sound quality of the DAC. The Mimby uses an R2R multibit design, while the Jotunheim has a two delta sigma DACs for balanced output. Two completely different architecture. The XLR connector is there so you can actually use the benefits of a balanced output from the Jotunheim. It is somewhat controversial over whether balanced is sonically any different from single ended but, what balanced definitely does is provide more power and less noise.

As far as I'm aware, Schiit isn't a professional audio company, in the sense of producing audio equipment for sound engineers, etc. They make products for an audiophiles market. I don't see why they would need to add a mic in. You can still use your soundcard mic in, no reason you can't.

 

[Music Alchemist]

It is somewhat controversial over whether balanced is sonically any different from single ended but, what balanced definitely does is provide more power and less noise.

In some cases, balanced can have more noise and distortion than single-ended.