[TMRaven]

This is the first planar I've heard where the 'ortho wall' is actually audible, making me think it's more than just a wall, and an actual resonance. Both frequency graphs and distortion graphs show an anomaly at 5k. It's a very thin peak though, so it doesn't impact overall timbre and harshness as much as it could, but it's definitely audible. Paper towel mod doesn't get rid of it, but it seems like vegan pads mitigate it a good amount.

 

[mandrake50]

I am considering getting the M1060's eventually, but some have said that there is a peak at 5k, which causes ringing/shouty mids. Is this a big deal? I don't wanna mod these... (and probably can't, as the vegan pads are apparently discontinued) In that case, is the HD650 or HE400S/HE400I a better option vs the M1060's in stock? I mostly listen to Pop and Electronic. Also, i have listened to Zeos' sound demo on these and they sound great to me, but the sound is probably different IRL. I am also a bit sensitive to highs...

Help me understand your post a bit better. Did you say that you listened to the 1060 and liked them? If so, they are worth a try, especially at the price.

The HD650 really needs a good system, especially amplification to shine. What is your setup? They may fit your budget now, but building a system to make them shine can be costly.

I need to get my 400i out and do a comparison to the 1060. I always like the 400i, but have not listened to them for quite some time. I don't trust my memory (audio) enough to make a statement on the differences. They often can be had new for $250. That is a screaming deal. If you can be patient and wait for a sale I think that may be the way to go. I would do this juts from the standpoint of the maturity of the design, build quality, and the relative ease of making changes to the 400i. At the full price, I would be more likely to at least try the 1060.

You will never really know until you try them in your system and with your music.

 

[mandrake50]

This is the first planar I've heard where the 'ortho wall' is actually audible, making me think it's more than just a wall, and an actual resonance. Both frequency graphs and distortion graphs show an anomaly at 5k. It's a very thin peak though, so it doesn't impact overall timbre and harshness as much as it could, but it's definitely audible. Paper towel mod doesn't get rid of it, but it seems like vegan pads mitigate it a good amount.

I think there is ringing at other frequencies as well. OTH, I hear this with test tones but not generally when listening to music. I would have to dig out my notes for specifics..The vegans do seem to help.

 

[mandrake50]

I'm in the camp of not wanting wide imaging in headphones as they are already artificially too wide by nature. I'm used to speakers set up in a equilateral triangle with the listener giving proper depth and width. All headphones exhibit wider staging than speakers but the HD650 is about the closest to my ears.

Interesting, I have not found any headphone that would get close to the width and depth of a well placed set of good speakers in a room that is setup properly.
On the detail retrieval side though, it is much easier for headphones to get this right. It is just so dependent on room interactions when dealing with speakers.

 

[Brahmsian]

You're comparing a cheapo closed back Sennheiser (not their strongest area for sure) to an open back planar-magnetic headphone, running from the headphonejack off your Macbook. Not to say that's not okay, but you are really missing out on a lot, especially if you prefer the HD280's in some genres. Sell the 280's and buy a budget DAC/amp (audioquest dragonly v1.2 is where I began, nice starting point and the form factor is excellent), and you will never look back.

I agree. It's not a fair comparison. But it might be an informative one to someone considering upgrading from and to similar price points.

I've had my 280s for more than a decade and will probably own them till they bust. The more I listen to other headphones, even more expensive ones, the more I appreciate what they do at their price. I love them as backup cans because they are so versatile. My main issue with them is the super heavy, long coiled cable, which is just a mess for casual listening. Now, to be fair to Sennheiser, the 280 wasn't made for casual listening. And because they're studio phones that aim for a tight seal and minimal leaking, they're also not super comfortable (although I really appreciate their lightness when I switch between them and the 1060s).

 

[Zenrap518]

Help me understand your post a bit better. Did you say that you listened to the 1060 and liked them? If so, they are worth a try, especially at the price.

The HD650 really needs a good system, especially amplification to shine. What is your setup? They may fit your budget now, but building a system to make them shine can be costly.

I need to get my 400i out and do a comparison to the 1060. I always like the 400i, but have not listened to them for quite some time. I don't trust my memory (audio) enough to make a statement on the differences. They often can be had new for $250. That is a screaming deal. If you can be patient and wait for a sale I think that may be the way to go. I would do this juts from the standpoint of the maturity of the design, build quality, and the relative ease of making changes to the 400i. At the full price, I would be more likely to at least try the 1060.

You will never really know until you try them in your system and with your music.

Sorry, i have not listened to these in person. Only in Zeos' sound demo. I am going to get an O2/ODAC combo when it goes on massdrop.

 

[mandrake50]

Sorry, i have not listened to these in person. Only in Zeos' sound demo. I am going to get an O2/ODAC combo when it goes on massdrop.

Maybe a language thing. Have you had the 1060 on your head to listen?
As to the O2/ODAC. I listened to this combination for quite a while at work. I have one built (O2) with all very premium parts. It does very well for what it is. Now, having listened to lots of other DAC/Amp combinations I would say that it may not be the best that you can do for the money. I am afraid that I can't offer recommendations in this class, except that I have used the Fiio E17K that I do like better than the O2/ODAC. I am just saying that you may want to do some research before getting that combo. Much will depend on what headphones you end up with and how you want to use the system.

 

[givemetacos]

Sorry, i have not listened to these in person. Only in Zeos' sound demo. I am going to get an O2/ODAC combo when it goes on massdrop.

The Zeos sound demos are only useful in getting RELATIVE comparisons to his other sound demos that use the same setup. It is really hard to judge a headphone based off using your own headphone setup listening to his headphone setup.

What headphones are you using now? I personally think the HD650s are great for their naturalness in timbre and smooth feel. For me, that tends to be good for listening to real instrument and vocal genres, like rock, indie, acoustic, jazz, singer-songwriter, classical, etc. Because they are so smooth and laid back, I tend to not prefer them for really high energy, big sounding genres like hip hop, electronic, etc. I actually really like the M1060 (even stock) for its big sound and extended bass and treble (compared to HD650). It has a wider soundstage and more airy and open, which lends itself nicely for that energetic, powerful sound.

 

[givemetacos]

Maybe a language thing. Have you had the 1060 on your head to listen?
As to the O2/ODAC. I listened to this combination for quite a while at work. I have one built (O2) with all very premium parts. It does very well for what it is. Now, having listened to lots of other DAC/Amp combinations I would say that it may not be the best that you can do for the money. I am afraid that I can't offer recommendations in this class, except that I have used the Fiio E17K that I do like better than the O2/ODAC. I am just saying that you may want to do some research before getting that combo. Much will depend on what headphones you end up with and how you want to use the system.

He hasn't heard them in person. The Zeos sound demos are on youtube. Whenever Zeos reviews a headphone he also does a binaural recording of sample tracks through his rig for you to hear. The sound quality is pretty decent for being a recording of a recording through youtube that you listen to with your own headphones. But obviously, it is for relative/comparison listening to his other headphone reviews more than it is to give you an absolute sound signature impression.

 

[mandrake50]

He hasn't heard them in person. The Zeos sound demos are on youtube. Whenever Zeos reviews a headphone he also does a binaural recording of sample tracks through his rig for you to hear. The sound quality is pretty decent for being a recording of a recording through youtube that you listen to with your own headphones. But obviously, it is for relative/comparison listening to his other headphone reviews more than it is to give you an absolute sound signature impression.

Thanks for that. I began to suspect that this was the case when I did a search for Zeos Sound demo. I found the playlist, but not enough other info to be sure. Now you have confirmed.
Yes, listening through other headphones and trying to get a good feel for the original would be pretty difficult.

 

[antdroid]

I took my Kinden "silver-plated occ copper" mmcx cable I was using with my original M1060 and modded it with 2.5mm connectors this morning. Took a little trial and error to get the right solder points, but I got it working!

Here they are...



[removed cable comparison - inaccurate measurements]

 

[Zenrap518]

The Zeos sound demos are only useful in getting RELATIVE comparisons to his other sound demos that use the same setup. It is really hard to judge a headphone based off using your own headphone setup listening to his headphone setup.

What headphones are you using now? I personally think the HD650s are great for their naturalness in timbre and smooth feel. For me, that tends to be good for listening to real instrument and vocal genres, like rock, indie, acoustic, jazz, singer-songwriter, classical, etc. Because they are so smooth and laid back, I tend to not prefer them for really high energy, big sounding genres like hip hop, electronic, etc. I actually really like the M1060 (even stock) for its big sound and extended bass and treble (compared to HD650). It has a wider soundstage and more airy and open, which lends itself nicely for that energetic, powerful sound.

I currently use the PSB M4U 1's. To me, they sound pretty neutral, which makes them pretty good all-rounders. They do have a bit of sibilance at higher volumes though. And, i had the NAD Viso HP50's which sound like the PSB's, with no sibilance or harshness, but were a pain to wear.

 

[IBJamon]

I took my Kinden "silver-plated occ copper" mmcx cable I was using with my original M1060 and modded it with 2.5mm connectors this morning. Took a little trial and error to get the right solder points, but I got it working!

Here they are...



And... I'm not totally a believer in cables making a difference, but here's the modded cable in yellow vs the stock cable in green....

Woah... just a cable made that much difference? I have a hard time with this...

Are you sure it wasn't a measurement error with one of the two?

 

[mandrake50]

Woah... just a cable made that much difference? I have a hard time with this...

Are you sure it wasn't a measurement error with one of the two?

I thought the same thing. Lots of things can have an effect on this kind of measurement. Darn, I would think there would have to be something very wrong with a cable to make that kind of difference. That is as much or more of a difference than some of the mods that people have been doing. If cables could consistently make that kind of difference, I think everyone would hear those differences. Even me..

 

[antdroid]

I just redid the measurements in a more controlled fashion.

Okay they are the same. Not sure what happened previously.