[paul2qute]

Why isn't houses all around the world filled with electrostatic speakers in their lounge instead of dynamic speakers?

 

[paradoxper]

Why isn't houses all around the world filled with electrostatic speakers in their lounge instead of dynamic speakers?

Houses aren't filled around the world with either.

For having owned Stax for most of your life, your comment about the BHSE and 007 being awful is suspect.

Perhaps your hyperbole was in haste. My cheek is in jest.

 

[Whitigir]

I have a simpler reason: most dynamic are cheap and easy to plug and play in any devices while Stax is neither. High-end dynamic that can perform most always need good amplifier and source or it suffer in performances. Luckily the Utopia is a combination of easy to drive, and performer from any source....only that it is not cheap. IMO, the Utopia MSRP is cheaper than it price-performances ratio considering many different scenarios

 

[jscmd2000]

That is a good point... how is the price-performance ratio of 009/BHSE compared to Utopia?

 

[nvfan]

Why isn't houses all around the world filled with electrostatic speakers in their lounge instead of dynamic speakers?

Because when weight, amping, (and cost) isn't an issue, dynamic speakers are more flexible (in term of amping and connectivity and convenience), and have better dynamics, and have better high frequency extension than electrostatics.

Headphones aren't really conducive for multi-driver use due to size, lobing, and sensitivity so the advantages of dynamics over electrostatic drivers aren't really that apparent in headphones.

Sure, if you could build a 2-way or 3-way concentric dynamic driver headphone with vapor deposited diamond drivers and an amp that could drive the thing, and somehow not make the thing excessively heavy or have lobing issues, it would blow away any electrostatic you could build.

 

[Whitigir]

That is a good point... how is the price-performance ratio of 009/BHSE compared to Utopia?

009 with KG amps will obviously out perform Utopia with a good amp, but into this point, the cost of the 009 system should be 2x as expensive in comparison to Utopia system or even more. Price-performances the Utopia is cheap for what it can do if you compare to a proper Stax setup. But then with a proper Stax setup, the Utopia will just sit idle on the side like mine, but what make it a keeper is that I can get it to perform out of an iPad if I need to, while Stax I will have to sit into it station in order to enjoy

 

[JimL11]

Because when weight, amping, (and cost) isn't an issue, dynamic speakers are more flexible (in term of amping and connectivity and convenience), and have better dynamics, and have better high frequency extension than electrostatics.

Headphones aren't really conducive for multi-driver use due to size, lobing, and sensitivity so the advantages of dynamics over electrostatic drivers aren't really that apparent in headphones.

Sure, if you could build a 2-way or 3-way concentric dynamic driver headphone with vapor deposited diamond drivers and an amp that could drive the thing, and somehow not make the thing excessively heavy or have lobing issues, it would blow away any electrostatic you could build.

Well, yes and no.

Electrostatic speakers have problems that headphones don't have. Because they are relatively low efficiency, they have to be big, as in, room heater size (the original Quads) or room divider size. Also, most electrostatic speakers are dipoles, which means bass cancellation unless they are big. Due to their low efficiency, they also have to have a fairly large area to produce midrange and treble, which means they tend to be beamy, especially in the treble area. They can produce just as high frequencies as dynamic drivers, or higher, but generally in a narrow dispersion, so you have to be in-line to hear it. Remember that many recordings are made with electrostatic microphones, as are many measurement microphones - these have a frequency response that frequently extends above the audible range.

On the other hand, electrostatic speakers often use a single diaphragm to cover the whole range, so they are inherently coherent (the original Quad electrostatic, although it is a three way speaker, also turns out to be transient coherent, as demonstrated by its ability to reproduce a spike). Also, if you look at the frequency response of many dynamic tweeters, especially hard diaphragms such as aluminum, beryllium, etc., you will see that they have a spike resonance at or just above the audible range, which can presumably color the sound. Electrostatic tweeters lack this spike, and have a relatively smooth roll-off.

Look, for example, at the frequency and impulse response of a Quad ESL-63 compared to any dynamic speaker. Except for the low frequency roll-off, the on-axis frequency response is flatter than almost any dynamic speaker (the off- axis response is deliberately rolled-off, but in a smoother fashion than almost any dynamic speaker). Its limitations lie at the low frequencies, the high frequencies, and how loudly it can play. But within its dynamic envelope, it sounds smoother and less colored than pretty much any other speaker.

These limitations are less of an issue in headphones, because the low frequency response is determined by the bass resonance frequency of the driver, and if you have a good seal, you don't have cancellation of the bass. The high frequency response of electrostatic headphones is as good or better than any dynamic driver and since it is going directly into your ear, you don't have to worry about dispersion.

An issue with 2- or 3- way drivers in a headphone, just as it is in dynamic speakers, is the integration with the crossover network. This is a non-trivial problem. In fact, some prominent speaker designers spend more time getting the crossover network right than getting the drivers right. Electrostatic drivers are inherently single diaphragm so you don't have to worry about crossover problems.

 

[bidn]

How long do you think the Utopia would be in production before another version comes out? I would think at least a few more years. From all the reviews out there it seems leaps and bounds ahead of other dynamic headphones that it will take something really special to surpass it. I guess they are safely king of the hill for a while.

For those that have had or tried the HD800S is it true that the Utopia makes it sound veiled in comparison? That would be really amazing.

I used to consider my HD 800, which are more detailed in the bass that the HDS 800S, as a my reference.
Generally speaking the HD 800 is not veiled at all, so I can understand people saying they do not sound veiled compared to the Utopia.
However many have written that they find them veiled in comparison with the Utopia, and I concur: if one takes "veiled" as meaning less revealing of detail, the HD 800 are definitely less revealing of details compared to the Utopia. But then the issue which result in different answers is how one understands this "less" (for some the difference will not be large enough).

There are two other things which I find important here.

First, the comparison HD 800 / Utopia made me realize that the most minute details of the HD 800 are fake, like the artificial pixelization you can find in images which are not displayed with an adequate resolution, instead of a real texture, and only since then have I really understood why more experienced (than me) audiophiles use tube amps to drive the HD 800, which smooth and take away these small artifacts. Using the iFi iCAN Pro, I now prefer the tube circuit for my HD 800, which I would never have before all what the Utopia has revealed to me.

Second, I find that the difference in level of detail is dwarfed by another difference (and so one would relatively not pay so much attention to the difference in detail):
the combined differences in dynamics, punch and speed -- there you have a whole world of difference with the HD 800, it strikes hugely me when I go back to the HD 800 how lifeless and boring they seem in comparison to the Utopia.
But this can be tricky. The downside of the incredible energy of he Utopia is that, when listening in the evening, I experienced that they were keeping me too much awake and I would go too late to bed (and I often read from other reviewers that they would be absorbed and listen to the Utopia very late through the night...). So I learnt not to listen to the Utopia late unless I do need to keep awake when having to get things done late. (this would not differ much however if you listen to Gregorian or polyphonic chant, but it will for modern or for orchestral musics)

 

[monkkx]

Hi all,
I have the Utopia, and although it sound fabulous, there's an issue I had and I'd like to know if it's an isolated one or not ...
The first pair of utopia I had had been returned, because there was some serious bass clipping at loud but listenable volume. I noticed it on Bjork's tune Notget; at around 2:00 there's some deep synthetic bass that made me feel the Utopia was blowing on my ears, it was clipping like crazy. I've several other headphones, and none of them is clipping at this sound level on that tune.
Short story long, the utopia was exchanged with a brand new one, put in burnin for 200 hrs, and the new one is also clipping at a relatively low volume. Appart from that, they sound great, but the bass start clipping at a volume level that I enjoy from time to time when going nuts on some tunes.
Am I that bummy to have received 2 defective Utopia, or is it a known limitation?

 

[paul2qute]

Houses aren't filled around the world with either.

For having owned Stax for most of your life, your comment about the BHSE and 007 being awful is suspect.

Perhaps your hyperbole was in haste. My cheek is in jest.

It was the stax srm 007 driving the 007 headphones not the blue Hawaii, I listened to the blue Hawaii with the 009 which sounded superb on certain music but I didn't feel it scaled like the focal utopia and the bass was very weak to my ears, I've read since that the stax srm 007 amp over loads on the tube side,it just couldn't drive the 007 headphones at all, should of kept the headphones and changed the amp looking back what I know now.I feel even with all that detail the stax headphones have,they feel emotionless at times and other times mind blowing,it's not consistent

 

[bidn]

Hopefully this facetious..... I saved a while to buy my Utopias, now I am saving to buy the Dave. I am an hourly employee, so whenever I am stuck in traffic trying to get out of Manhattan on a Friday night I remind myself that every minute brings me closer to Dave. I've seen a few teenagers here in the forums with some really high end stuff that they probably didn't pay for with wages from summer jobs at Six Flags, but most people here work for a living and choose to put their spare cash into this (expensive) hobby that we all enjoy.

Hi doggiemon,

besides being like you (working also very hard, which does not allow meto often post comments),
I would like to draw you attention to the upcoming DAC from iFI, the iFI iDSD Pro (not to be confused with the iDSD micro, nano, and iCAN PRO). Hopefully it will be competing with the DAVE at a much lower price and should be a TOTL product (like the iCAN PRO headphone amp is). If it doesn't take too long to come up and it has super SQ, it could save you a lot of money compared to purchasing the DAVE.

 

[paul2qute]

Hi all,
I have the Utopia, and although it sound fabulous, there's an issue I had and I'd like to know if it's an isolated one or not ...
The first pair of utopia I had had been returned, because there was some serious bass clipping at loud but listenable volume. I noticed it on Bjork's tune Notget; at around 2:00 there's some deep synthetic bass that made me feel the Utopia was blowing on my ears, it was clipping like crazy. I've several other headphones, and none of them is clipping at this sound level on that tune.
Short story long, the utopia was exchanged with a brand new one, put in burnin for 200 hrs, and the new one is also clipping at a relatively low volume. Appart from that, they sound great, but the bass start clipping at a volume level that I enjoy from time to time when going nuts on some tunes.
Am I that bummy to have received 2 defective Utopia, or is it a known limitation?

I've not heard any clipping at any volume I've used them and I've had them quite loud at times

 

[paul2qute]

Hi doggiemon,

besides being like you (working also very hard, which does not allow meto often post comments),
I would like to draw you attention to the upcoming DAC from iFI, the iFI iDSD Pro (not to be confused with the iDSD micro, nano, and iCAN PRO). Hopefully it will be competing with the DAVE at a much lower price and should be a TOTL product (like the iCAN PRO headphone amp is). If it doesn't take too long to come up and it has super SQ, it could save you a lot of money compared to purchasing the DAVE.

How interesting, I'll have to look that dac up and read the reviews when the product comes out

 

[monkkx]

I've not heard any clipping at any volume I've used them and I've had them quite loud at times

May I ask you the type of music you usually listen to? I do not hear any clipping on say an accoustic jazz double bass ... but definitly on synthetized ones as on Bjork's tune

 

[Whitigir]

Lol..now I see a lot of smokes, but ok