[Duun]

No difference. USB 3.0 will operate in USB 2.0 mode when USB 2.0 device is connected.

thank you! saved me from buying an additional 30 dollar card!

 

[mbyrnes]

Burson V5i op amp upgrade for Creative Sound Blaster X7

Link to the Bursonaudio.com site for the V5i


Disclaimer: I was contacted by Charles from Supreme Sound (Burson Audio), provided (2) single op amps and (2) double op amps, for my honest opinion of their product.

What is it:The Burson V5i is a hybrid op amp. It has an integrated chip, which is what most op amps are in entirety, but also takes some parts, and separates them, adding some high end discrete components. This is to improve performance while maintaining a small form factor. This is how they can shrink down the V5 into the much smaller package, while retaining the sound signature of the full blown V5. I have not heard the regular V5, but this was their design principle in making the V5i. The V5i is much smaller and “should” be a drop in replacement for most op amps.

What does it do: Operational Amplifiers main job is to amplify a signal, typically a voltage (can also be used to amplify current, voltage to current, or current to voltage). If you are interested in learning more about op amps, I found this website to be beneficial. The math may seem simple, but in real world components, achieving the best performance can be difficult. It is striking a balance between performance, size, cost, tradeoffs, etc. Each company will use a different design with certain design goals in mind.

Why me: As many of you may already know, I purchased the complete X7 op amp swap, Sparkos Labs SS3601 and SS3602 op amps, shortly after I purchased the X7. My review is located in my signature. I have used those op amps for many months, and have been very happy with their performance. They greatly improved the sound quality of the X7, and I still believe that op amps are a great way to get more out of such a versatile DAC/Amp/VSS unit. Before that purchase, I did not believe that op amps could make that much of a difference. I have gladly changed my tune, and will continue to suggest op amp upgrades for equipment that can have them swapped. Most IC op amps seem to have to make sacrifices, and fully discrete is the best way to go (audio as the end goal of the op amp, as they have MANY different uses).

Starting point: Upon receiving the Burson V5i op amps, they were burned in for roughly 150 hours, as Burson suggests 100 hour burn in period. Now I did listen and use the X7 normally during this burn in period. I did notice that as time went on, the V5i op amps did seem to change over time. When I first received them, I was not impressed with them. Coming from the Sparkos, they didn't seem as clear, and they weren't as efficient (volume dial needed to be turned up more for the same volume). I went back to gaming and watching movies, listening to music, but not analytically.


Critical Listening post burn in: The V5i op amps do have some nice qualities. They produce clean and tight bass, a very musical mid range, but do seem rolled off in the highs compared to the Sparkos. Soundstage, instrument separation, and overall clarity are very good, much better than the stock op amps that come with the X7. These are a definite upgrade, and for $120 for the complete swap, not a terrible price to pay for a noticeable change in sound. The Sparkos, which I believe to be the best op amps available in a small form factor (they're also fully discrete), are double the cost at $240 for the complete swap.

Setup/Equipment: I tested the Burson V5i op amps several different ways. I used just the X7 and it's amp, as many will be using the X7 in this way. I also used the RCA outs to connect my Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL 2, which has a much "blacker" background, and overall very good sound quality. The X7 was connected to my PC via USB, using Foobar2000 updated to the latest version. For Headphones, I used Hifiman HE-X V2, Fostex TH-X00 Ebony, Monoprice M1060, Beyerdynamic DT990 SE 250ohm. I also listened through my 2 channel setup, which consist of X7>MZ2>Marantz SR8500 AVR>Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand speakers.

Overall Thoughts: I know the Sparkos very well, and they will remain my op amp of choice for the X7. The entire frequency response with the Sparkos is crystal clear and matches my headphones of choice, perfectly. At $240 though, you are pretty close to Modi Multibit, which you can use with the X7 through the optical out (and still use the Virtual Surround Sound (SBX). Even just switching out the Duals, which make a larger difference to sound quality, will set you back $160 before shipping for the Sparkos. The V5i, will be $80 for the Dual swap. That is a much easier amount to swallow, especially if you are trying to keep your setup simple with an all in one solution.

The Sparkos require less power to output at the same spl level. I noticed this in my Sparkos review, that they played much louder than the stock op amps. The Sparkos during this review were usually at 11:00-11:30 on the MZ2. The Bursons to achieve the same volume, sat around 12:30-1:00 on the MZ2 volume dial. The Bursons are more efficient than the stock op amps, but do not match the Sparkos. Another thing I noticed is that the Bursons got HOT during use. I would say they were within the 60-80 degree Celsius operating range at all times. This could be due to the metal enclosure on the V5i, and there not being a case on the Sparkos. The bottom cover will NOT fit on the X7 with either the Sparkos or Bursons installed. IMO this is very minor and no big deal. Neither projects out from underneath, they are just a mm or two larger than the cover can manage.

Without a direct comparison between the two, I really didn't notice the V5i as lacking. They sounded great when they were the only op amps in the X7 for a few months. Gaming, Movies, and Music all sounded great and I was happy. Ignorance can be bliss, and without swapping back and forth between the Sparkos and the Bursons, I grew to really enjoy the V5i op amps. One area where I think they can really help people, is with headphones that are V or U shaped where the highs can become fatiguing. The Bursons brought down the highs enough to make a few of my headphones more enjoyable for extended listening. Particularly my TH-X00 and DT990. The slight drop in highs really helped the DT990 for music, and they were still great for FPS gaming, with plenty of the detail that is needed to hear the sounds you do want to hear. The Bass and Mids were truly good, very comparable to the Sparkos, and I would have to nit pick to find any differences in these areas. I cannot change the op amps fast enough to get a true comparison of the differences in Bass and Mid range (hearing memory is extremely short!). Both excel in this area. My two main headphones are Planar (HEX and M1060), which both recess the highs naturally, and the Sparkos really help those headphones in this area. Headphones with an edginess to the highs, may sound better with the Bursons for music. I know for me, I preferred the DT990 with the V5i op amps.

As you may know, the X7 does have a built in EQ, so you can change the sound however you want. All of my listening was completed with a flat EQ, and if you aren't against it, you can dial in the V5i op amps by bumping a few decibels here and there. I realize that some are COMPLETELY against EQ, so this review is with the V5i straight into the X7 without any help.

Burson (critical listening) with comparisons to Sparkos:

Led Zeppelin "Whole Lotta Love", FLAC rip from remastered CD. Very low background noise, Robert Plant's voice is extremely clear and natural sounding. Snare drum sounded impactful and decayed well. The Top Hat is where I noticed a difference between the Sparkos. It sounded slightly recessed, and not as clear as the Sparkos. Overall this song sounded great and natural.

Live "White Discussion", FLAC rip from CD. This is one of my favorite songs to test all kinds of gear. When the band jams, it gets loud and congested with heavy guitar and drums, and they can overpower the rest of the instruments and singing. The V5i performed very well, where each instrument is clearly heard when listened for, and the overall sound was better than I expected. The guitar was not as clear on the V5i compared to the Sparkos, but without knowing this song as well as I do, this could be missed by many listeners. The V5i IMO do a very good job of keeping the impactful changes, with great bass and mid bass. I did not like this song with the stock op amps.

Metallica "Master of Puppets", FLAC rip from CD. Alone the V5i do a very nice job on this song. Another song with a lot of things going on, and the only notable difference I could tell was the drums didn't sound as clear versus the Sparkos.

The Who "Love Reign O'er Me", FLAC rip from CD. Love this song, the beginning with the rain and piano, is one of my favorite starts to a song ever. The Bursons did not disappoint. Everything was clear, impactful, and Roger Daltrey sounded very lifelike. The Sparkos are better, but it isn't as obvious on this track.

Black Sabbath "War Pigs", FLAC rip from CD. Sounded great, another one of my favorite demo songs. I did notice a big difference in clarity of the symbol crashes and their decay. The Sparkos really show their muscle here, my notes on the Sparkos: "Symbols decay FOREVER". This really stuck out when the Sparkos were installed, and there was a noticeable difference when the V5i were installed. The symbol decay was still very good on the Bursons, but clearly not as good as the Sparkos. Everything else, like drums, guitar, vocals, all sounded very good.

Arcade Fire "Reflektor", FLAC rip from CD. This is a bass heavy song and really the reason I chose it. There is some good percussion, male and female vocals, and a song I really like. The V5i sounded very clear with bass and vocals, but again lost to the Sparkos.

Summary:
The bass and mids performance of the Burson V5i was very good with all of my listening. Vocals sounded clear with both Male and Female voices. Really the one note that kept coming up, was a lack of clarity in the upper ranges. The highs seemed a few decibels down compared to the Sparkos, and finer details just weren't there against it's twice as expensive foe. The V5i did excel with everything else, and compared to stock, this is a very nice upgrade, at a price that I think is worth it. I would call the Burson V5i a "warm" sounding op amp compared to the Sparkos. This may be exactly what you are looking for, especially if you are trying to tame the highs of certain headphones.

 

[Yethal]

Great writeup!

 

[mbyrnes]

Great writeup!

Thanks Yethal, It's funny, I've had the V5i op amps installed for so long, that I really didn't notice (or remember) what I was missing from the Sparkos. The sound changed during the break in period, and for gaming, they're really good (which is 90% my X7 usage at the moment. It wasn't until critical listening (which I honestly don't do regularly), where the differences became obvious. I remember PMing you, as you had both sets, about the sonic differences a few months back.

One thing I'm curious about, is the upcoming Burson V6, and if they'll make a V6i down the road. On paper, the V6 is a big upgrade over the V5. Burson definitely knows how to make great headphone gear, and each iteration of their op amps has been a good improvement over it's predecessor.

I did really like the V5i with my brighter headphones. I'm also assuming they would pair well with brighter amps (through the X7).

I'm very tempted to pick up an amp with swappable op amps, and see how the 2 best op amps compare in different gear. I don't know how each would act in a different circuit, but I imagine the sonic characteristics could be very different sounding.

Now I need to do an X7 versus Modi Multibit comparison, which will be far simpler as both can be hooked up simultaneously, and a flip of the input switch on my MZ2 swaps them instantly.

The bass and mids upgrade with the Burson V5i, is worth the price alone.

I'm having issues with posting pictures under the new Head-Fi system. Hope to get some pictures added soon.

 

[Bellari]

So would a good mic pre amp help with the terrible mic jack or is it a problem that cannot be remedied at all? Thanks!

 

[Yethal]

Thanks Yethal, It's funny, I've had the V5i op amps installed for so long, that I really didn't notice (or remember) what I was missing from the Sparkos. The sound changed during the break in period, and for gaming, they're really good (which is 90% my X7 usage at the moment. It wasn't until critical listening (which I honestly don't do regularly), where the differences became obvious. I remember PMing you, as you had both sets, about the sonic differences a few months back.

One thing I'm curious about, is the upcoming Burson V6, and if they'll make a V6i down the road. On paper, the V6 is a big upgrade over the V5. Burson definitely knows how to make great headphone gear, and each iteration of their op amps has been a good improvement over it's predecessor.

I did really like the V5i with my brighter headphones. I'm also assuming they would pair well with brighter amps (through the X7).

I'm very tempted to pick up an amp with swappable op amps, and see how the 2 best op amps compare in different gear. I don't know how each would act in a different circuit, but I imagine the sonic characteristics could be very different sounding.

Now I need to do an X7 versus Modi Multibit comparison, which will be far simpler as both can be hooked up simultaneously, and a flip of the input switch on my MZ2 swaps them instantly.

The bass and mids upgrade with the Burson V5i, is worth the price alone.

I'm having issues with posting pictures under the new Head-Fi system. Hope to get some pictures added soon.

I tried loving the Bursons but the clarity and transparency loss compared to Sparkos was unnaceptable. They're still great opamps, definitely a big upgrade over stock, they're just not not what I'm looking for.

So would a good mic pre amp help with the terrible mic jack or is it a problem that cannot be remedied at all? Thanks!

Interesting question. I've noticed that with some microphones the mic input on the X7 sounds very clean and detailed while on some it hisses like crazy and requires hardcore software processing to sound even remotely acceptable. Considering the fact that PC37X sounds great on the X7 and the fact that headphone and microphone grounds are bind together on that headset I'd say that it's a grounding issue. Maybe a ground loop isolator would help? Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Ground-...00874267&sr=8-3&keywords=ground+loop+isolator

 

[mbyrnes]

Yethal: you are in the same position I am. Owning both, the Sparkos are, IMO, clearly better, and you feel the same. Obviously I'll run the Sparkos as my op amps. Cost is a factor for many, and double the cost is a huge amount of money ($120 more). Really the X7 and Sparkos are a great match. But you're talking the price of a Modi Multibit.

I am hoping to get a Modi Multibit vs X7 with Sparkos upgrade review done soon. Each will be fed an optical cable with a splitter, so they both get the exact same signal without routing through the X7 (Sparkos may improve the optical out, even though it shouldn't). Having two inputs on my amp means I can switch between the two on the fly.

Sadly I'm still recovering from surgery and it's been difficult to get time to set it up and try all the combinations. I'll have to go through the X7 at some point to see if adding the multibit improves the X7, but then also get the added input (component S/PDIF).

Money no object, Sparkos are the best and I'd be completely happy with the X7 as my only DAC. It's one box that really sounds unreal and is very close to the Modi Multibit (no critical listening, just going from audible memory). They're close, with nothing sticking out between the two.

Should be interesting.

 

[Duun]

Just got the X7 after selling my modi2/magni2. It was a nice setup, but I realized I missed DSP especially in games. DSP.... obviously not an audio purist I know.
It performs flawlessly in that aspect and yes the beamforming mic works for my needs.
But i wanted to touch on the music side of things...just being able to use bluetooth to feed this thing without the pc has been a great experience...hell I did not even fire up the PC today I was so impressed just listening. I use some ad900x headphones nothing special. I had no idea these headphones could sound this good with music.
I see Planar Magnetics in the future

Very happy.

 

[mbyrnes]

Just got the X7 after selling my modi2/magni2. It was a nice setup, but I realized I missed DSP especially in games. DSP.... obviously not an audio purist I know.
It performs flawlessly in that aspect and yes the beamforming mic works for my needs.
But i wanted to touch on the music side of things...just being able to use bluetooth to feed this thing without the pc has been a great experience...hell I did not even fire up the PC today I was so impressed just listening. I use some ad900x headphones nothing special. I had no idea these headphones could sound this good with music.
I see Planar Magnetics in the future

Very happy.

I love my X7!!!! I did swap out the op amps, and it definitely helped improve SQ overall. I really enjoy my Monoprice M1060 planar headphones ($300). The crappy thing is that I hate leather, and swapped to the Audeze Vegan pads, but they are no longer available. People are looking for an alternative, and some who like leather are going with the Audeze leather pads and liking the sound. Check out the M560/M1060 thread. With a pad swap and simple paper towel mod, they really punch far above there price. I also picked up Hifiman HE-X V2 used, and they are my favorite headphone for everything. I am a huge planar fan, much more than dynamic driver headphones that I have heard.

 

[Iknownothing1]

Hey guys,

Just found out about this dac/amp.
I've already made a topic but before I knew of this existence.

What do you guys will be better for futureproofness : schiit stack ( 348 euro ) , or this x7 ( 399 euro ) local prices.
I'll pair it up with : dt 770 pro, ath m50x, hd 650 and future headphone purchases which I don't know yet.
Mainly listening to music and I game a 3 ish hours a day.

Thanks!

 

[mbyrnes]

Hey guys,

Just found out about this dac/amp.
I've already made a topic but before I knew of this existence.

What do you guys will be better for futureproofness : schiit stack ( 348 euro ) , or this x7 ( 399 euro ) local prices.
I'll pair it up with : dt 770 pro, ath m50x, hd 650 and future headphone purchases which I don't know yet.
Mainly listening to music and I game a 3 ish hours a day.

Thanks!

X7 in a heartbeat. I like the DAC chip far better in the X7. The X7 is a really diverse piece of equipment. It sounds great with music, but can also do virtual surround sound, which is a must for any gamer IMO. It can be upgraded several ways. Swap op amps. Add a second amp using it's RCA outs (like a tube amp for higher ohm headphones like your Sennheiser). Finally you can even add an outboard DAC and amp and send virtual surround through optical to that DAC, which can either use the X7's internal amp or outboard amp.

The X7 does so many things that a normal DAC can't, especially Schiit (I love Schiit Audio's stuff). Bluetooth, you can answer your phone if you have a headset plugged in, listen to music while playing games (you can control the level of each input separately, so you can keep game sound playing as well).

I was truly blown away by the X7 for music. I bought it because I'm a pretty big gamer, and love all the control you have over everything. EQ, how much virtual surround sound you want, personalized EQ settings you can save for each headphone, bass boost, can power speakers, etc.

It isn't all perfect though. You need an app to control it, which isn't the easiest, but not hard either. The first post has a VERY detailed review which I suggest reading if you haven't. The X7 destroys the Astro Mixamp in every way.

With the Sparkos op amps installed in mine, it sounds very similar to the Schiit Modi Multibit. I hope to get a review of the two up sometime soon, but with casual listening, I can't tell them apart. The X7 is more future proof in my eyes, because it can be upgraded so many ways. It also does far more than a music focused DAC.

That's my 0.2¢ anyway, lol.

 

[Iknownothing1]

X7 in a heartbeat. I like the DAC chip far better in the X7. The X7 is a really diverse piece of equipment. It sounds great with music, but can also do virtual surround sound, which is a must for any gamer IMO. It can be upgraded several ways. Swap op amps. Add a second amp using it's RCA outs (like a tube amp for higher ohm headphones like your Sennheiser). Finally you can even add an outboard DAC and amp and send virtual surround through optical to that DAC, which can either use the X7's internal amp or outboard amp.

The X7 does so many things that a normal DAC can't, especially Schiit (I love Schiit Audio's stuff). Bluetooth, you can answer your phone if you have a headset plugged in, listen to music while playing games (you can control the level of each input separately, so you can keep game sound playing as well).

I was truly blown away by the X7 for music. I bought it because I'm a pretty big gamer, and love all the control you have over everything. EQ, how much virtual surround sound you want, personalized EQ settings you can save for each headphone, bass boost, can power speakers, etc.

It isn't all perfect though. You need an app to control it, which isn't the easiest, but not hard either. The first post has a VERY detailed review which I suggest reading if you haven't. The X7 destroys the Astro Mixamp in every way.

With the Sparkos op amps installed in mine, it sounds very similar to the Schiit Modi Multibit. I hope to get a review of the two up sometime soon, but with casual listening, I can't tell them apart. The X7 is more future proof in my eyes, because it can be upgraded so many ways. It also does far more than a music focused DAC.

That's my 0.2¢ anyway, lol.

Wow thanks for the detailed answer!
Currently my budget lays around a single pair of schiit stack . So I won't upgrade my x7 in 2017 if i'd get it. It is rated till 600 ohms, so is it necesarry to add a other amp?
I read that the schiit stack can handle 95% of headphones, but the reason why i'm so attracted to the x7 is because of the surround sound, did you find it to make your gaming experience a lot better? Any headphone suggestion that pair of really good with the x7?

I've read the review at the front page of course . I'm not really deep into the audiophile world, i just really appreciate good quality sound, so I've never upgraded op amps. Is it difficult? I learnt to build pc's , so i've it's anything like that I'd figure it out.

And when you said: Finally you can even add an outboard DAC and amp and send virtual surround through optical to that DAC, which can either use the X7's internal amp or outboard amp. Do you mean that you could eventuelly have another dac and amp and use their power while remaining the virtual surround sound that the x7 offers? sorry really new into this. My only amp atm is a fiio e10k

 

[kellte2]

Wow thanks for the detailed answer!
Currently my budget lays around a single pair of schiit stack . So I won't upgrade my x7 in 2017 if i'd get it. It is rated till 600 ohms, so is it necesarry to add a other amp?
I read that the schiit stack can handle 95% of headphones, but the reason why i'm so attracted to the x7 is because of the surround sound, did you find it to make your gaming experience a lot better? Any headphone suggestion that pair of really good with the x7?

I've read the review at the front page of course . I'm not really deep into the audiophile world, i just really appreciate good quality sound, so I've never upgraded op amps. Is it difficult? I learnt to build pc's , so i've it's anything like that I'd figure it out.

And when you said: Finally you can even add an outboard DAC and amp and send virtual surround through optical to that DAC, which can either use the X7's internal amp or outboard amp. Do you mean that you could eventuelly have another dac and amp and use their power while remaining the virtual surround sound that the x7 offers? sorry really new into this. My only amp atm is a fiio e10k

Pro Tip: Creative generally puts the standard X7 on sale around Black Friday for 299. Might help with the budget.

The amp on the X7 is good, but not great. It will drive most headphones, but it doesn't really have the power to drive what some may refer to as "picky" headphones. The HD800 comes to mind, as it is power hungry and needs an amp with more body - everything sounded very metallic when I paired the HD800 with the X7.

As mbyrnes said, the X7 will allow you to send the virtual surround sound out to a different amp or DAC via line out or optical out, respectively. It is a nice feature for those of us who have been bitten by the upgrade bug and can still use our X7s for high quality virtual surround sound with a beefier amp (or DAC). There has been some debate about the merits of upgrading to a better DAC from the X7, as users are able to replace op-amps on the X7. Many here have done so, including myself, and have found that with the upgraded op-amps, the X7 DAC leaves very little to be desired.

My experience with the X7 has been great. I love the virtual surround sound for online shooters like Overwatch, Ghost Recon Wildlands, etc., and its upgradability has allowed me to move up from the K702 Anniversary using the X7's internal amp to an Ether C Flow fed by the Liquid Carbon via line out from the X7. I don't plan on replacing it unless and until Creative (or a competitor) releases something 'better' (HDMI-in with uncompressed audio, please), but given the niche status of the product, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[mbyrnes]

Wow thanks for the detailed answer!
Currently my budget lays around a single pair of schiit stack . So I won't upgrade my x7 in 2017 if i'd get it. It is rated till 600 ohms, so is it necesarry to add a other amp?
I read that the schiit stack can handle 95% of headphones, but the reason why i'm so attracted to the x7 is because of the surround sound, did you find it to make your gaming experience a lot better? Any headphone suggestion that pair of really good with the x7?

I've read the review at the front page of course . I'm not really deep into the audiophile world, i just really appreciate good quality sound, so I've never upgraded op amps. Is it difficult? I learnt to build pc's , so i've it's anything like that I'd figure it out.

And when you said: Finally you can even add an outboard DAC and amp and send virtual surround through optical to that DAC, which can either use the X7's internal amp or outboard amp. Do you mean that you could eventuelly have another dac and amp and use their power while remaining the virtual surround sound that the x7 offers? sorry really new into this. My only amp atm is a fiio e10k

The X7 may be all you need, ever. It will drive most headphones without issue. When TOTL headphones come into play, you may want to upgrade, which you can in the different ways I pointed out. Op amp swap is really easy. Adding an amp or DAC is even easier.

The X7 is great because it does so much out of the box. You may never upgrade it and be completely happy. I went crazy a and added a $2,000 amp (bought used for half) and upgraded the op amps for another ($200). I still sometimes use the internal amp of the X7, and it works very well with all my headphones. Adding the amp was for multiple reasons, and you may not ever feel the need.

Some may want to add an OTL tube amp for Sennheiser HD600, HD650, or HD800, as they are high impedance and really respond well to tube power. Then you have a solid state option with the internal amp and tube through RCA jacks. Best of both worlds.

I'd love a Smyth Research Realizer A16 for surround, but I just can't justify it. $1800-$2000 just for it. I instead went separates for my 2 channel system instead (Schiit Saga/Vidar/Either/Mimby). I'm very happy with my headphone setup. I've always wanted separates and should be receiving them very soon (just ordered most of it, had Mimby).

I think you'll really enjoy the X7, and if you go crazy in this hobby, you'll be able to keep the X7 in the chain for VSS. It's great for gamers.

 

[Iknownothing1]

You guys confinced me to go for an x7, i'll be on the look out for a good deal. Don't know why im so hyped for the x7;p