[Currawong]

Couple of questions to this new m9 owner, I understand the relay based volume but is it normal for my speakers and/or headphones to pop while changing volume regardless of how much volume is being changed?

My sa31se never did this, although that was an up down button vs knob.

I'm sure I have more questions here.

With the unit powered on and no music playing, turn the volume all the way up and down, or even just through your regular listening level a couple of dozen times and it should go away.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

More testing last nighty showed me that one channel pops while adjusting volume and something interesting. While music is being played and volume gets to around 60 the balance starts getting dominant on one side (or you can look at it as one side is lowering in volume). When you get to volume 70 the lowering channel completely cuts out. The kicker is this only occurs using SE out and se line out to my speaker amp. While using balanced headphones there is no cut out at vol 70 or imbalance starting at vol 60; the volume adjustment also sounds more normal like my previous sa31se and that is the noise going into the headphone is centered and more a light static than pops.

I've tried both balanced in and se line in. I've tested the DAC direct to a balanced schiit preamp to speakers and no issues there. As well as another amp and no issue there as well.

I've tried multiple headphones both balanced and se (using 4 pin to SE adp) so it's not the headphone..

Please tell me if I've missed a step or didn't cover something proper in testing this unit. I've sent off a couple of emails to Kingwa to get his input as well.



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EDIT, answer to Currawong:

Hi Am.

I've just tried this, sitting there DJing the volume from 0 to 99 for 10 mins straight. Didn't work. Didn't think about a possible stuck relay, good thinking!

With the unit powered on and no music playing, turn the volume all the way up and down, or even just through your regular listening level a couple of dozen times and it should go away.

 

[Currawong]

@Soundsgoodtome So the pre-amp function works fine? I'm sure Kingwa will be able to help you sort out what is broken.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

The preamp mode also has the same issue when using SE line out to my speaker amp, go past 60 and one side starts to diminish in sound. Get to volume 70 and one side cuts out with no sound at all. It also pops when adjusting volume, which is a bit more unnerving through the speakers than headphones (louder too!). Unfortunately I do not have a balanced speaker amp at the moment to test if balanced preamp out works fine of the master 9.

I may be able to test this by going from DAC > Balanced Master 9 > Balanced Schiit Freya > SE Nakamichi speaker amp. I can try this later tonight.

@Soundsgoodtome So the pre-amp function works fine? I'm sure Kingwa will be able to help you sort out what is broken.

 

[Odor trader]

How many revisions/silent revisions have their been of the Master 9?

 

[Currawong]

You'd have to ask Kingwa.

 

[Articnoise]

How many revisions/silent revisions have their been of the Master 9?

I haven’t heard of any revisions for the M9. They changed to a volume knob directly after launching, but only very few (first batch) was shipped without the knob. An option to select higher gain for inefficient headphones like HE6 was made, but its option and not a revision.

 

[DarKu]

Ditto, no revisions to M9 - as it has a pure analog circuitry it didn't see any revisions (how for example Master11 had - but that was mainly because of its digital section: DAC implementation, analog circuitry remained the same).

Never posted in this topic, I am a happy M9 owner for some months now.
It was so good with LCD-4 I didn't feel I need to chat about it or to search for something else, a really versatile headphone amp.
I wish it was just a tiny bit more nimble and fast with its transients, otherwise best headphone amp I've owned until now, love its SQ so far, hate the size of it

 

[Articnoise]

Ditto, no revisions to M9 - as it has a pure analog circuitry it didn't see any revisions (how for example Master11 had - but that was mainly because of its digital section: DAC implementation, analog circuitry remained the same).

Never posted in this topic, I am a happy M9 owner for some months now.
It was so good with LCD-4 I didn't feel I need to chat about it or to search for something else, a really versatile headphone amp.
I wish it was just a tiny bit more nimble and fast with its transients, otherwise best headphone amp I've owned until now, love its SQ so far, hate the size of it

I agree, a really good versatile headphone amp. I also think a little better transient speed and just a tiny bit more energy in the 1-3 KHz would make it fantastic.

 

[marhol]

I agree, a really good versatile headphone amp. I also think a little better transient speed and just a tiny bit more energy in the 1-3 KHz would make it fantastic.

Hmm, could you please explain what do you mean by the line " a tiny bit more energy in the 1-3 kHz would make it fantastic" ? I´m not really sure what to think about it. Does that mean Master 9 is over-smoothing this frequency range to mask some sibilance or upper midrange/low treble glare ? Or do you feel it lacks microdynamics in this frequency range ? Or is it too laid back in that upper midrange/lower treble ?
Because its hard to believe there is any " frequency dip" (in that range) in the amp itself...
I am also bewildered by the sudden transient speed "issue". I thought that speed, resolution, transparency was regarded as one the strongest aspects of Master 9 ?! What are the amps you are comparing to M9, guys (in relation to transient speed) ?

 

[Articnoise]

Hmm, could you please explain what do you mean by the line " a tiny bit more energy in the 1-3 kHz would make it fantastic" ? I´m not really sure what to think about it. Does that mean Master 9 is over-smoothing this frequency range to mask some sibilance or upper midrange/low treble glare ? Or do you feel it lacks microdynamics in this frequency range ? Or is it too laid back in that upper midrange/lower treble ?
Because its hard to believe there is any " frequency dip" (in that range) in the amp itself...
I am also bewildered by the sudden transient speed "issue". I thought that speed, resolution, transparency was regarded as one the strongest aspects of Master 9 ?! What are the amps you are comparing to M9, guys (in relation to transient speed) ?

Ok, I will try. It’s absolutely not my impression that M9 is over-smoothing to mask some sibilance or upper midrange/low treble glare. There are no such thing to mask with the M9 IMO. Yes I think it’s a bit more laid back in that upper midrange/lower treble than ideal for me with my other gear.

I can assure you that even if amps don’t show measurable frequency dips they have dissimilar sound signatures and tonality.

It’s correct that speed, resolution, transparency are strong aspects of Master 9. Other strong aspects are overall refinement, versatile/lots of power, wide soundstage, blackness, tone density/fullness and no treble glare. In some of the above aspects M9 is better than my Marantz PM 11 and in some aspects, like, dynamics, clarity and a bit more energy in the 1-3 KHz, I prefer my Marantz PM 11.

A mix of the best aspects from Master 9 and the best aspects from Marantz PM 11 would make an amp fantastic IMO.

 

[marhol]

Ok, I will try. It’s absolutely not my impression that M9 is over-smoothing to mask some sibilance or upper midrange/low treble glare. There are no such thing to mask with the M9 IMO. Yes I think it’s a bit more laid back in that upper midrange/lower treble than ideal for me with my other gear.

I can assure you that even if amps don’t show measurable frequency dips they have dissimilar sound signatures and tonality.

It’s correct that speed, resolution, transparency are strong aspects of Master 9. Other strong aspects are overall refinement, versatile/lots of power, wide soundstage, blackness, tone density/fullness and no treble glare. In some of the above aspects M9 is better than my Marantz PM 11 and in some aspects, like, dynamics, clarity and a bit more energy in the 1-3 KHz, I prefer my Marantz PM 11.

A mix of the best aspects from Master 9 and the best aspects from Marantz PM 11 would make an amp fantastic IMO.

OK, thank you for your clarification. Marantz PM 11 is a serious piece of audio gear I have no doubts it sounds terrific. From your description it seems M9 is quite comparable in terms of sound quality with PM 11. Which amp do you prefer with your LCD-3 and HE-6 ? Is HE-6 really that much better via high end speaker amp like PM 11 ?

 

[Articnoise]

OK, thank you for your clarification. Marantz PM 11 is a serious piece of audio gear I have no doubts it sounds terrific. From your description it seems M9 is quite comparable in terms of sound quality with PM 11. Which amp do you prefer with your LCD-3 and HE-6 ? Is HE-6 really that much better via high end speaker amp like PM 11 ?

My Marantz PM 11 is a fine (mid-price) speaker amp and I prefer to use it with both LCD-3 and HE-6. Master 9 is a really good amp. It’s a rather small difference between them in technical terms. In regard to sound signature and tonality the difference is a bit more evident, but still more similar than different. With another DAC and source it might have been in favor of the Master 9 instead. To drive HE-6 well the amp need to have enough power, and HE-6 need more power than for example LCD-3. In my experience both Marantz PM 11 and Master 9 can deliver enough power to drive HE-6 without problem. So the basic power ability is fulfilled IMO.

I know some on Head-fi believe that the reason some high end speaker amp sounds better is because of more power, but I don’t think so. More power than Master 9 will not result in better sound with HE-6. How do I know that? By testing. To test if a transducer is underpowered you will need to listen to some headphones or speakers with different efficiency and hear how the sounds change then you turn the volume up. It’s not the SQ per se, it’s the power we intend to test by turning the volume up. If the amp runs out of power it will start to sound different compare to on lower volume, IE more compressed, lack in bass, closed in and strident. This happens before the amp start to clip. IME HE-6 itself will start to sound strident long before we are near to use all the power Master 9 has on tap. LCD-3 can be driven to louder volume before starting sounding bad. The confirmation, test with other more powerful amps, like Marantz and Advantage.

So in my experience the power need (included proper headroom) is fulfilled with Master 9, even for driving the very inefficient HE-6 to loud volume. That doesn’t mean HE-6 will not sound even better via a high end speaker amp (sorry about the double negation). After the basic power requirements are obtained, then we have the whole better quality power aspect which will separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

[marhol]

My Marantz PM 11 is a fine (mid-price) speaker amp and I prefer to use it with both LCD-3 and HE-6. Master 9 is a really good amp. It’s a rather small difference between them in technical terms. In regard to sound signature and tonality the difference is a bit more evident, but still more similar than different. With another DAC and source it might have been in favor of the Master 9 instead. To drive HE-6 well the amp need to have enough power, and HE-6 need more power than for example LCD-3. In my experience both Marantz PM 11 and Master 9 can deliver enough power to drive HE-6 without problem. So the basic power ability is fulfilled IMO.

I know some on Head-fi believe that the reason some high end speaker amp sounds better is because of more power, but I don’t think so. More power than Master 9 will not result in better sound with HE-6. How do I know that? By testing. To test if a transducer is underpowered you will need to listen to some headphones or speakers with different efficiency and hear how the sounds change then you turn the volume up. It’s not the SQ per se, it’s the power we intend to test by turning the volume up. If the amp runs out of power it will start to sound different compare to on lower volume, IE more compressed, lack in bass, closed in and strident. This happens before the amp start to clip. IME HE-6 itself will start to sound strident long before we are near to use all the power Master 9 has on tap. LCD-3 can be driven to louder volume before starting sounding bad. The confirmation, test with other more powerful amps, like Marantz and Advantage.

So in my experience the power need (included proper headroom) is fulfilled with Master 9, even for driving the very inefficient HE-6 to loud volume. That doesn’t mean HE-6 will not sound even better via a high end speaker amp (sorry about the double negation). After the basic power requirements are obtained, then we have the whole better quality power aspect which will separate the wheat from the chaff.

Thanks for your reply and added information. As I understand M9 is a competent amp even for driving HE-6 and a really good speaker amp as PM 11 is even better, because besides of fine technical abilities it has more room to deliver some extra clean power. It looks M9 serves you mainly as a preamp then. I intend to buy Master 9 to serve me as a preamp and headphone amp as I have active speakers. I thought Oppo HA-1 (in balanced mode) was sufficient to drive HE-6 quite well when I tried it some time ago. Anyway in my opinion you don´t need speaker amp to drive HE-6 well, especially when you´re listening at moderate volumes. On the other side I can see why people use HE-6 mainly with speaker amps.

 

[Articnoise]

Thanks for your reply and added information. As I understand M9 is a competent amp even for driving HE-6 and a really good speaker amp as PM 11 is even better, because besides of fine technical abilities it has more room to deliver some extra clean power. It looks M9 serves you mainly as a preamp then. I intend to buy Master 9 to serve me as a preamp and headphone amp as I have active speakers. I thought Oppo HA-1 (in balanced mode) was sufficient to drive HE-6 quite well when I tried it some time ago. Anyway in my opinion you don´t need speaker amp to drive HE-6 well, especially when you´re listening at moderate volumes. On the other side I can see why people use HE-6 mainly with speaker amps.

Whatever amp you planning to buy, a good DAC and digital sources is paramount IMO. A good amp is “only” amplifying the signal coming from the DAC/TT. If the audio signal coming from the DAC isn’t good to begin with no amp can ever fix it. I consider its best to start with as good source as possible, no matter if you use a turn table or a digital player.

I have not heard the Master 11 + Singxer SU-1 myself, but if its sounds like a combination of Master 7 and Master 9 + Offramp 5 it might be worth to put on your list. This solutions cost more than just a Master 9, but also is more of a complete solution which can be used both for the HE-6 and active speakers.

Btw, my Marantz PM 11 is an integrated speaker amp so I don’t use Master 9 as a pre amp.