Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
May 16, 2017 at 10:23 AM Post #7,531 of 40,345
Alright, guess we're going to have to swing at this from a different angle.

So in my last post I tried to explain that it's possible for an iem to have other qualities than bass; a point that seems to have gone amiss because the words I used were 'too big'. The point is not that the manufacturers or people on this thread don't like bass. We all love bass, I mean, who doesn't right? We just find there's so much more in the music to love than just bass. We love a full, powerful midrange, an accurate instrument tone, and we love to hear the grandness of the whole picture, made up by all the tiny little details. We love our treble to be smooth but articulate, for it to be quick. And there's so much more!

There's no point in trying to explain in audiophile terms what makes Zeus a fantastic iem. I thought they would at least ring a bell last time, but it washed right over. So I'll paint an analogy that you and your 6 friends might be able to understand. Imagine going to a Michelin star restaurant that prepares haute cuisine food, which of course comes with a hefty price tag. The chef combines various subtle flavors to create an exquisite dining experience with all kinds of mousses, cremes, and what have you. A critique will appreciate the balance in the food, the nuances in the dish, which makes it require so much skill to make. But someone else might complain that it's composed of all these small dishes that don't even fill you up, and the worst part is YOU DON'T EVEN GET FRIES!!! In fact, a regular Burger King menu has stronger flavors, and it costs one tenth of the price! And all of your teenage friends that were forced by their parents to go along seem to agree, making it an undeniable fact.

Bass is a strong part of a signature - everybody can hear that. I wouldn't expect your friends to be able to hear the difference between a 2K iem and a $200, anymore than I would expect my 12 year old niece to do so. But I would expect someone that's been around longer and had more experience to be able to do so. Guess you proved me wrong.
 
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May 16, 2017 at 12:37 PM Post #7,532 of 40,345
Greetings

Also I see many variants of Zeus are for sale in the sales forum, had it been so good why this influx of Zeus sales as second hand.

Anyhow, we are putting an end to this with my friend trying to sell his Zeus and closing this chapter, and some of our friends in Sweden are watching this thread as we expect my post to be cancelled or me even getting banned.

Cheers

Not sure if the first point is very valid. For example, you will see several Senn HD600 and HD650's for sale however they are generally regarded as a fine Neutral to Analytical Open Headphone almost universally. So with that thought process they can't be very good, hence why I do not think gauging sales is a good way to determine if something is hyped or not. Also lots of people flip high end things in this hobby as well, I know of several people whom I have asked how in the hell do you afford to buy the best of breed every 6 months and they simply flip the previous and only have to worry about the Delta of the purchases.

If bass is a requirement for you sound signature, you are correct the Zeus probably won't check that box but I really do not think you can come to the conclusion you have using the verbiage you have. As far as cultural aspects of speech, my wife is German Canadian and is about as literal and too the point as you can get but no one here in North america or back in Germany uses that excuse in her family, you have to cater to the market you exist in, it's called life.

Lastly I doubt you will get banned for exercising your opinion as long as you do it in a constructive manner and I think for the most part you have. I don't think anyone is getting angry at your opinion.

Anyhow good luck in you and your friends endeavor to find what you think is great. Sorry for the off topic post and back to the EE discussion. BTW I don't own Zeus simply because I can't afford it, I have a custom Spartan and enjoy it immensely with the right source.
 
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May 16, 2017 at 12:47 PM Post #7,533 of 40,345
Now what makes me wonder more, is how many people within a company like Empire Ears are involved in tuning. I am sure in big companies like Sennheiser a big team gets together to tune their iems or headphones. I would really like to know the manpower in a company like Empire Ears, and would like to know on what basis do they price their iems. As those astronomical numbers must have a backing especially I do not see that Empire Ears is a huge company with so many employees to ask for those extreme prices to cover their expenses.

Thanks Brian for cleaning up the post but I did happen to see the original post so i'd like to address a few things. First and foremost, this company being co-founded by a second generation Asian (Hmong) American has ZERO to do with the way that we tune our in-ear monitors. Being raised in Atlanta, Georgia it doesn't take a genius to know that it's the capital of hip-hop, R&B, neo-soul, and gospel. There's also a thriving indie-rock, classical, country, and blues scene here. It's a culture that we at Empire have embraced because it's who we are and it's what I was raised on.

Secondly, the Olympus Series was tuned for technicality and live performances which is what we've achieved. We tuned this entire series for our immediate market, the pro musicians, and were fortunate enough to have an audio enthusiast community behind it. Dean, my father, is the founder of Empire Ears and is a Vietnam war refugee that escaped to America in the late 80's to pursue his American dream. He spent the majority of his youth playing rock gigs with various musicians and then I came along. The rest is history.

Now what makes me wonder more, is how many people within a company like Empire Ears are involved in tuning. I am sure in big companies like Sennheiser a big team gets together to tune their iems or headphones. I would really like to know the manpower in a company like Empire Ears, and would like to know on what basis do they price their iems. As those astronomical numbers must have a backing especially I do not see that Empire Ears is a huge company with so many employees to ask for those extreme prices to cover their expenses.

Thirdly, Empire is a sister company of Savvitek, a medical device and IEM manufacturing company. We're currently in a 8,000+ sq ft facility with 22 hard-working employees consisting of Asians, Caucasians, Latinos, and African Americans. The base tuning process starts with Dean and makes it's way through our board of trusted professionals and partners (most of them Grammy award winners) from within the music industry for further feedback and approval. Recently we've been reaching out to this community for constructive criticism on a few prototypes for another project.

I would really like to know the manpower in a company like Empire Ears, and would like to know on what basis do they price their iems. As those astronomical numbers must have a backing especially I do not see that Empire Ears is a huge company with so many employees to ask for those extreme prices to cover their expenses.

Simple economics. When you scale you have a larger overhead and running a manufacturer in the USA isn't exactly cheap. We also take care of our employees. They're sufficiently paid with numerous benefits including 100% paid health insurance and maternity leave. If I was manufacturing these overseas with questionable conditions and the cheapest components possible then yes i'd be able to offer our products at a much lower price point but we support our economy and we take pride in handcrafting all of iems here in Atlanta.

Anymore questions?

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May 16, 2017 at 1:10 PM Post #7,534 of 40,345
Wow, the new HQ is awesome. These are the first pictures I've seen of it, I need to go visit again this summer. (I've only been to the old one)
 
May 16, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #7,535 of 40,345
Thanks Brian for cleaning up the post but I did happen to see the original post so i'd like to address a few things. First and foremost, this company being co-founded by a second generation Asian (Hmong) American has ZERO to do with the way that we tune our in-ear monitors. Being raised in Atlanta, Georgia it doesn't take a genius to know that it's the capital of hip-hop, R&B, neo-soul, and gospel. There's also a thriving indie-rock, classical, country, and blues scene here. It's a culture that we at Empire have embraced because it's who we are and it's what I was raised on.

Secondly, the Olympus Series was tuned for technicality and live performances which is what we've achieved. We tuned this entire series for our immediate market, the pro musicians, and were fortunate enough to have an audio enthusiast community behind it. Dean, my father, is the founder of Empire Ears and is a Vietnam war refugee that escaped to America in the late 80's to pursue his American dream. He spent the majority of his youth playing rock gigs with various musicians and then I came along. The rest is history.



Thirdly, Empire is a sister company of Savvitek, a medical device and IEM manufacturing company. We're currently in a 8,000+ sq ft facility with 22 hard-working employees consisting of Asians, Caucasians, Latinos, and African Americans. The base tuning process starts with Dean and makes it's way through our board of trusted professionals and partners (most of them Grammy award winners) from within the music industry for further feedback and approval. Recently we've been reaching out to this community for constructive criticism on a few prototypes for another project.



Simple economics. When you scale you have a larger overhead and running a manufacturer in the USA isn't exactly cheap. We also take care of our employees. They're sufficiently paid with numerous benefits including 100% paid health insurance and maternity leave. If I was manufacturing these overseas with questionable conditions and the cheapest components possible then yes i'd be able to offer our products at a much lower price point but we support our economy and we take pride in handcrafting all of iems here in Atlanta.

Anymore questions?



Very well handled Jack. Look forward to getting my hands on some units!
 
May 16, 2017 at 5:17 PM Post #7,536 of 40,345
i really respect how well-mannered and courteous jack is , even when someone attacks or slams his products

Whether you like jack's ciems/tunings or not is one thing - each person has a different taste - but you can never say about jack that he has ever turned into an ironic, arrogant asshole - and to me this is the highest praise i can give to someone who runs a company in here.

He truly respects the people here, and wants to help out with their purchases.

VANG = Very Authentic Noble Guy
 
May 16, 2017 at 6:16 PM Post #7,537 of 40,345
Greetings

I am sorry, when someone pays over 2000 USD for an iem, it has to sound like a 2000 USD gear. In Sweden we do not like to be diplomatic and we are straight to the point without using lots of maneuvering big words. I do not own the Zeus but my friend does, in addition other people heard it, and when they knew its price they were just surprised. All of them mentioned it lacks bass, and if bass is not important to many of you in this thread then yes the Zeus is your iem. Also I see many variants of Zeus are for sale in the sales forum, had it been so good why this influx of Zeus sales as second hand.

In comparison when I let 6 people listen to my Sony xba Z5 they all liked it a lot. While non gave a real thumbs up for the Zeus, and literally they thought its from China and that we are having a prank on the them by saying it costs over 2000 USD. With all honesty my Sony Z5 sounds way way better than the Zeus in all aspects.

Anyhow I still do not get it why if someone criticizes a product others get so angry,

As for being offered help, well my friend is in the process to sell it to someone, as what is the point to send it back to Empire Ears

Now what makes me wonder more, is how many people within a company like Empire Ears are involved in tuning. I am sure in big companies like Sennheiser a big team gets together to tune their iems or headphones. I would really like to know the manpower in a company like Empire Ears, and would like to know on what basis do they price their iems. As those astronomical numbers must have a backing especially I do not see that Empire Ears is a huge company with so many employees to ask for those extreme prices to cover their expenses.

Anyhow, we are putting an end to this with my friend trying to sell his Zeus and closing this chapter, and some of our friends in Sweden are watching this thread as we expect my post to be cancelled or me even getting banned.

Cheers
We all have different preferences that's why I understand what you feel.
On contrary to your statement, I feel that iems with overwhelm bass are cheap. While iems with great details, soundstage, and well tuned are expensive.
There are a lot more to explore in audio world than bass. I hope you find you TOTL with bass soon. Perhaps you could try other brands.
 
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May 16, 2017 at 7:58 PM Post #7,538 of 40,345
May 16, 2017 at 8:40 PM Post #7,539 of 40,345
I am fortunate enough to own the XRA. Anyone that follows my reviews or thoughts on Head-Fi knows I enjoy the best portable setups I can find, and I am always searching. I am also very swayed by a warm tuning and tilt, it is my personal preference. That said, the XRA are not warm, but to my ear they are a very complete product. I have been asked when a review is coming and I will review the XRA soon. Until a formal review, I will say they are special. Value claims are personal, but I concede they are expensive compared to other IEMs. I also own 64 Audio U12 and they are at different ends of the spectrum from the XRA, each special in its own way. I would go out on a limb and say the XRA is so detailed in all of its layers it really impresses. They are not bassy, bloomy, or rumbly but when there is great bass in a song the bass is very present and does extend an reveals itself. The bass is not the focus of this IEM, but it is probably the best I have had the pleasure to own.
 
May 16, 2017 at 9:30 PM Post #7,540 of 40,345
9944311.jpg


Those look all-too-familiar to poor Pinky. I work at a bench just like these all day long. They're very well made.
 
May 16, 2017 at 9:52 PM Post #7,541 of 40,345
Thanks Brian for cleaning up the post but I did happen to see the original post so i'd like to address a few things. First and foremost, this company being co-founded by a second generation Asian (Hmong) American has ZERO to do with the way that we tune our in-ear monitors. Being raised in Atlanta, Georgia it doesn't take a genius to know that it's the capital of hip-hop, R&B, neo-soul, and gospel. There's also a thriving indie-rock, classical, country, and blues scene here. It's a culture that we at Empire have embraced because it's who we are and it's what I was raised on.

Secondly, the Olympus Series was tuned for technicality and live performances which is what we've achieved. We tuned this entire series for our immediate market, the pro musicians, and were fortunate enough to have an audio enthusiast community behind it. Dean, my father, is the founder of Empire Ears and is a Vietnam war refugee that escaped to America in the late 80's to pursue his American dream. He spent the majority of his youth playing rock gigs with various musicians and then I came along. The rest is history.



Thirdly, Empire is a sister company of Savvitek, a medical device and IEM manufacturing company. We're currently in a 8,000+ sq ft facility with 22 hard-working employees consisting of Asians, Caucasians, Latinos, and African Americans. The base tuning process starts with Dean and makes it's way through our board of trusted professionals and partners (most of them Grammy award winners) from within the music industry for further feedback and approval. Recently we've been reaching out to this community for constructive criticism on a few prototypes for another project.



Simple economics. When you scale you have a larger overhead and running a manufacturer in the USA isn't exactly cheap. We also take care of our employees. They're sufficiently paid with numerous benefits including 100% paid health insurance and maternity leave. If I was manufacturing these overseas with questionable conditions and the cheapest components possible then yes i'd be able to offer our products at a much lower price point but we support our economy and we take pride in handcrafting all of iems here in Atlanta.

Anymore questions?



Being intimately involved in a family business that services the nation from coast to coast I have an intimate understanding of the cost of doing business and producing a product in America in 2017. People do not realize how every aspect of production is taxed and regulated; from the guy who pulled the raw materials out of the ground to the FedEx man who delivered it. On top of that you have the ongoing devaluation of the currency which makes each buck buy a little less every year and everything in every part of the supply chain cost a little more every year. Then you have all the time and manpower that goes into making something truly special like Zeus. People not involved in business do not understand what it takes to make it nowadays in business. My hat is off to the team at EE, best wishes and hoping for a strong and profitabe 2017 for Empire Ears!
 
May 16, 2017 at 10:44 PM Post #7,542 of 40,345
Wow seeing those EE HQ photos and Jack's explanation, makes it one of the best companies to even work for. Outstanding, no wonder customer service is just as good as the products.

Zeus XR coming in this week. So stoked. It has been like 4 months since I had the xr. I found lots of music for it
 
May 16, 2017 at 11:11 PM Post #7,543 of 40,345
Wow seeing those EE HQ photos and Jack's explanation, makes it one of the best companies to even work for. Outstanding, no wonder customer service is just as good as the products.

Zeus XR coming in this week. So stoked. It has been like 4 months since I had the xr. I found lots of music for it
Thing is Jack didn't even need to defend himself and give out his personal info etc but he chose to be transparent just like the Zeus.

(Cheesy analogy ik)
 
May 17, 2017 at 2:22 AM Post #7,544 of 40,345
In fact, a regular Burger King menu has stronger flavors, and it costs one tenth of the price!
I think this is an excellent analogy. Fast food for a quick bite of overwhelming flavour is a world apart from food prepared for enjoying subtle and complex flavours. You can eat food for the sake of eating, enjoy food for its flavours or critically appraise food for its composition. When music is reduced to "bass" it becomes like scoffing down food without it ever touching the palate. There is not even a chance for the flavours to come through.

I doubt anyone would ever sit down to critically appraise a Burger King meal because actually tasting the levels of salt and sugar in there, and feeling the soggy textures of the individual ingredients would be a very sobering experience. It is meant to overwhelm and give a quick fix of dopamine. Similarly headphones and IEMs can be designed to give an overwhelming experience that works as long as the listening is done inattentively, like when commuting. Just pleasant bass boom and plenty of sparkle to create the illusion of lots going on. It might be that our Swedish friend here is looking for a sort of supercharged version of that, which I am not sure if it even exists because what would its purpose be? The closest I can think of is perhaps the JH Roxanne (dials to full bass) or the 64 A8/U8, but even there I would not know if it would satisfy their needs.
 
May 17, 2017 at 2:32 AM Post #7,545 of 40,345
Those look all-too-familiar to poor Pinky. I work at a bench just like these all day long. They're very well made.
I used to work on benches like these, except with a white coat instead of a blue one. I always found it very funny that my desk was the easiest one to spot because it had an OCD-like order to it, whereas everyone else's usually looked like a small nuke had gone off in the vicinity. My wife is much the same and her bench is now a regular stop for new employees on their first tour around the lab. "Now this is what your bench should look like."
 

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