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Passing PayPal fees on to buyers when selling your items... - Page 2

post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dffman2001
I dont believe the 3% fees are bogus. Notice that they only apply to credit card transactions. This 3% fee is a standard fee incurred on ALL credit car transactions. However, stores will absorb the fees because of increased sales. Sometimes, during a sale, you will notice that stores say cash or debit only. This is because the 3% it costs the store may mean that the item is no longer above or at cost, but is being sold at loss if sold on credit.
If you have a Premier account you pay the 3% on any incoming money.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuroraProject
If you have a Premier account you pay the 3% on any incoming money.
Which is why I call it bogus. >.>;
post #18 of 24
Er... technally
its 30 cents plus 2.8%
post #19 of 24
For the life of me, I've never been able to figure out why people make such a big deal about who pays the PayPal fees.

I understand why PayPal has the rule: to avoid all of the complaints, disputed transactions, and the like, that they would have to deal with if the rule was not hard and fast. The seller absorbs the fees, period. This makes it easy to resolve disputes. Were it not for this rule, then they would have to employ a team (or much bigger team than they already employ) of analysts to examine the wording of thousands of individual transactions to determine, under common law contract rules, what the parties had agreed to (either explicitly or implicitly). They don't want to get into the dispute resolution business any more than they need to, and thus the draconian rule. Much like credit card transactions, the seller cannot pass on the fees to the buyer. PayPal views the seller (recipient of funds) as being their "customer" much like VISA views the restaurant that sells you a meal and takes your credit card for payment as their customer.

But all of this aside, the issue of who is to absorb the 3% fee for a PayPal transfer is just one element of the bargaining process. What matters to me as a buyer is: 1) what the full cost will be to me, including the cost of either a) a money order, b) a wire transfer, or c) PayPal fees, on top of what the item itself costs, relative to 2) what my full cost of the same or similar item would be from another seller. Thus, the "issue" of who is to absorb the 3% becomes a non-issue. What matters to me is, given what the total cost will be, is it worth it to me considering any other alternatives I may have as a buyer? What that then comes down to is "yes" or "no", end of story.

The only other possible issue is whether passing on these fees is "ethical". I've never done much selling via PayPal, but would probably absorb the fee myself (per PayPal rules, to be safe) but I'd make sure I asked a high enough price for the item itself that I'd be satisfied with the net amount received. If it were a high priced item (such that 3% of the selling price became too much for me to be willing to absorb), then I'd ask for a money order or bank transfer only. My rule might be, for example, PayPal is not accepted if the sales price exceeds $1,000 (or whatever amount).

I've seen so many of these threads, here and on other forums, that I'm getting numb. To me, it is equivilant to arguing about how much the "list price" is on a new car versus how much the dealer is willing to give you on your "trade in" car. What matters is how much you will have to pay, net. This can then be compared to what it would cost you to buy an identical new car elsewhere (after talking the dealer down off of the list price) less what you could sell your used car for outright in a private sale. Those are the two alternatives. Yet, people are frequently suckered in by thinking they are getting a great "trade in" allowance for their old car; they know it is not worth that much, and this gives them some sort of emotional "high" to think the dealer is so foolish. In the meantime, he has stuck firmly to his list (or "sticker") price on the new car, but would have gladly knocked essentially the same amount off of the list price had the buyer bought the same car outright, without a trade in.

It's more or less the same thing going on with the PayPal fee wars, IMO. It's no different than the "issue" of who is to absorb the shipping costs, which is also a "non-issue" from a full cost perspective.
post #20 of 24
Direct from Paypal's user agreement:

Quote:
You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment.
Seems pretty clear to me. If you want to charge $51.50 for a pair of headphones you think will sell for $50, that is your choice, but it is explicitly noncompliant to say you want $50 + 3% for Paypal fees.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Well said Wmcmamus, and I agree with a lot of what you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
What matters to me as a buyer is: 1) what the full cost will be to me, including the cost of either a) a money order, b) a wire transfer, or c) PayPal fees, on top of what the item itself costs, relative to 2) what my full cost of the same or similar item would be from another seller.
I fully agree, but my point is that (in a perfect world) we shouldn't have to worry about PayPal fees as buyers, because by law (PayPal's laws ) those fees are taken on by the seller. However, it's not a perfect world and I do agree that the end cost is what matters. If you were selling a PPA for $300 + a 3% PayPal fee and memberX was selling an identical amp in similar condition for $350 w/no PayPal fee, I'm not going to buy the amp from him just out of principle or because I think you are wrong to charge a fee. The end cost is what matters, and even with the fee your amp would be cheaper than his so I'd likely buy from you. Still, it's wrong from an ethical standpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
I've never done much selling via PayPal, but would probably absorb the fee myself (per PayPal rules, to be safe) but I'd make sure I asked a high enough price for the item itself that I'd be satisfied with the net amount received. If it were a high priced item (such that 3% of the selling price became too much for me to be willing to absorb), then I'd ask for a money order or bank transfer only.
This is what I'm trying to get at. Perhaps everyone should take on similar selling practices to avoid questions about moral, ethical, and legal standpoints.

I'm sorry you're tired of hearing about this, but I wanted some more insight. You didn't have to read the thread or respond to it, though.
post #22 of 24
Paypal's rules and even TOS are far far far from 'law'. Why on earth is there a class-action lawsuit against them if everything they say and do is law? IMO it is up to the buyer and seller's discretion on how they want to use paypal, regardless of what paypal says you should do. Cause what paypal says you should do is what is going to end up being what is best for them. They tell you they will offer 'protection' blah blah if you do this and don't do that, but the bottom line is they will protect themselves, and overall it is really not typically a seller-friendly service. So if you are a buyer and the seller makes it known that he/she prefers to not use paypal, than you need to keep in mind that paypal is only a third party in the whole scheme of things. I assure you that no FBI agent is going to come knocking because a seller refuses to either use paypal or accept the 3%. Of course paypal can refuse to service them...technically they can refuse to service anyone they want. You can also read in their TOS things like, hey we don't really guarantee anything, except if there are laws in your state/country that says we have to.

It obviously makes sense for Paypal to have a not so friendly policy towards sellers that would prefer to not use paypal. BTW UK-sellers are allowed to announce the surcharge. Why? My feeling is another class-action lawsuit again depending on state/location. I am sure there are plenty. Really though their policies are amended often.
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim D
Paypal's rules and even TOS are far far far from 'law'. Why on earth is there a class-action lawsuit against them if everything they say and do is law?
Sigh... I didn't actually mean that PayPal's terms were "law" in the literal sense. I just meant that the TOS clause that EricP noted above is one of their rules, and doing otherwise is grounds for account revocation or whatever PayPal deems appropriate. Of course it's not federal or state law, it's just part of PayPal's terms. It's no different than you going to a bar or gentleman's club that has a "No hats" dress code rule. Of course it's not against the law to wear a hat, but the establishment can make up its own rules (within the realm/limits of actual law) and if you don't like them then you don't have to go there, simple as that. But even though it's not against the law to wear a hat, if you wear one to that establishment you will either be asked to remove it or refused service. Same deal with PayPal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim D
I assure you that no FBI agent is going to come knocking because a seller refuses to either use paypal or accept the 3%.
Once again, I never implied that. To think that the above scenario would happen is not very realistic.
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imyourzero
I'm sorry you're tired of hearing about this, but I wanted some more insight. You didn't have to read the thread or respond to it, though.
Good point. My post would have been much better without the b*t*c*n* but since I've given it some thought from time to time, I figured it might help to express my views.
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