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Turn your HD600's into "closed phones"-- it helps! - Page 4  

post #46 of 60
Lol, KR! But to be a real messageboard, you must not only have flame wars, but also a pet troll or two. Don't have any of those yet. Hopefully never will.
post #47 of 60
Hey guys this is starting to get stale! Can we please move on to something more productive!
post #48 of 60

Style and Tension

I strongly defend Mikes right to express himself any way he likes. (Mainly because I can be abrasive myself at times.) Please recall that it ewas because we were able to have open heated discussion that AKG K1000s are available in the US right now at $500.

Tollerant tension is the place from which inovative creativity is able to thrive.

And Mike, if you cover up the vents under the earpiece foam on those piece if crap HD470 Sennheisers thay sound way better. So playing around like that is not too blockhead of an idea. What's bad is when we can have some objective way of talking about these things.

This whole discussion is a perfect example of why it will be cool when we can make these measurements and let you guys see them side by side.
post #49 of 60

Re: Without strong opinions........

Originally posted by Mike Walker
I submit that: Without strong opinions, discussion groups are a journey through boredom. That's what it's about! I make no apologies for mine, nor should you for yours.

But I'm glad I make things interesting for you. Peace, love, and all that BS
Since this a written forum we can only judge people by their responses. Strong opinions do not necessitate rude and arrogant language. What they do require is a realization that we are talking about preferences that do not lie entirely in the scientific domain. As such, to didactically state that someones perceptions are flawed does not constitute an intelligent, well reasoned response. Therefore, we have no basis to assume you are a well reasoned or intelligent person. Furthermore, the amount of listening experience in no way makes your perceptions better than anyone elses as far as how an individual percieves the sound through any given set of phones. As always IMHO.
post #50 of 60

Re: Re: Without strong opinions........

Originally posted by morphsci

What they do require is a realization that we are talking about preferences that do not lie entirely in the scientific domain. ...... Furthermore, the amount of listening experience in no way makes your perceptions better than anyone elses as far as how an individual percieves the sound through any given set of phones. As always IMHO.
It may not lie entirely in the scientific domain, but it does lie LARGELY in the scientific domain. I think the value of subjective evaluation is fundimentally valuable only when most objective measures are evaluated. And I'm not saying that a single ended tube amp with a lot of 2nd harmonic distortion doesn't meet the criteria, because we know that 2nd harmonid distortion is euphonic and pleasant for a lot of people and can "lush-up" the sound of harsh recordings. Covering the 600 vents IS stupid!

I also disagree with your statement that listening experience in no way qualifies someone. Listening critically and accurately is a thing that takes a long time to get right for yourself. Most people without experience will not even close to correctly evaluate a new pair of cans because our brains know how to "learn" the way something sounds. Without lots of experience and lots of variety, when you put on a new pair of cans your listening system is significantly skewed towars compensating for the cans you are used to. But, just because you've done it for a long time doesn't make you qualified to judge for everybody because all you judgements are filtered by your own listening system. John Atkinson made the observation one time that he knew people who listened to a lot of stuff but he never agreed with, and found out subsequently that they had some hearing problem. I know of a number of reviewers that I allways agree with and I know it's because we hear the same. Fortunately they are good reviewers with long experience and solid reputations as good reviewers. Over the years I've come to believe that I hear pretty straight down the middle. (When I joined the Coast Guard the singled me out and tried to get me to become a sonar tech because I had good aptitude scores and great hearing scores. OTOH, I have a bit of tinitus, too. But my expeience there is that it just maks me WAY more sensitive to harshness. I guarentee you HeadRoom will never produce a harsh product.) Bottom line: to be a good and valuable listener that others can trust you have to have both good hearing AND lots of experience. But I guaranty that lack of experience makes you judgement VERY suspect.

So, knowing Mikes profession, I'd weight his comments pretty strongly---and just filter the crap out. Hey he's right: Don't like it, don't read it. I'd be boarded if everyone sat around patting each other on the back without filtering out the dumb ideas. Mike---and me sometimes---are just what you get at the other end of the bell curve when you develope a vital and passionate discussion area.

Hang in there Mike---you dick.
post #51 of 60
Being a scientist I agree that there is a scientific component to the performance of headphones, but my statement was in regards to a persons preference on how music sounds. That may have a lot less to do with science per se.

As far as experience, it has nothing to do with someone elses PREFERENCE about what they like about a heaphone or dislike. I am definitely willing to grant that Mike has a vastly superior knowledge of the differences among headphones compared to myself. However, his experience has absolutely no relevance to my preferences among phones. Even from a purely scientific viewpoint there are too many uncontrolled variables to make even a humble statement in that regards, much less a didactic one.

My objection is not with Mike's opinions but in how they were expressed and the impression that his opinions of preference were somehow better than someones else. (Let me state that is my impression based upon his written statements since I do not know Mike personally.

By definition, preferences are neither better or worse. They are based upon an individuals unique history of their life. Preferences are a quality of an individual not a mean averaged over individuals.

Covering up the vents of the 600's is neither stupid nor intelligent. It merely provides a different sound that one may prefer or dislike. The fact that 99.99% of people dislike the sound in no way makes the 0.01% that like it stupid. That is why I currently have four pairs of headphones and will probably double that number in the next year (including a pair of 600's I will pick up this winter in Germany )
post #52 of 60
well, it's kinda silly, cause the drivers need to be able to vent the pressure. you'll screw them up if you cover the back.

And Mike, do remember that this is a message board. People can't tell if you're joking by looking at your face or the way you said it. 'Course you don't want to change your style, but "get a brain", "please do the world a favor, and see how you feel about it AFTER YOUR LABOTOMY", stuff like that, is, if you don't know the MikeWalker-Style, downright rude. Yeah you were kidding, but I only knew that after you told me so. Maybe it's a very common thing in the US to react like that and be funny, but not where I come from.

This is like, what, the fifth arguement about the way you express your opinions? See a pattern yet?

post #53 of 60
Here's a question :

Person A is using a cheap soundcard with a pair of Sony Streetstyles headphones to listen to rap MP3's. Person A decares it to be greatest sound ever.

Person B is using a Wadia CD player with a Stax system to listen to nothing but Chesky CDs. Person B decares it to be greatest sound ever.

So the question is: Who is right?
post #54 of 60
Answer: the police officer that arrests them both. First one for being a criminal ('gangsta'), the second for tax evasion (the only way to afford such a system).

Oh wait. That implies that they are both criminals, therefore equal, therefore they're both right.
post #55 of 60
Originally posted by morphsci
Covering up the vents of the 600's is neither stupid nor intelligent. It merely provides a different sound that one may prefer or dislike.
Good point. To tell you the truth, I only know that it's stupid because I've tried it myself long ago. The differenc between me and markl is that once I heard it I realized it was a not good tweek. Not that it's stopped me from trying it, and other things like it, on other cans at other times.
post #56 of 60

Re: Turn your HD600's into "closed phones"-- it helps!

Originally posted by markl
Here's a super cheap tweak to do to your HD600s and for me, it really works.
I noticed months ago that when I put my hands over the backs of the headphones, the midrange seemed to bloom a bit. Intrigued, I decided
It sounds horrible to me. It appears to de-emphasize the high frequencies and to introduce what sound like resonances in the midrange. Makes the headphones sound like cheap bookshelf speakers, or like a cheap $30 pair of headphones from circuit city.

Of course some might prefer these effects, but it sounds to me like a far less accurate rendition of the musical signal. Each to his own!
post #57 of 60

Mike Walker

OF COURSE the amount of time someone spends listening to headphones (or any other type of audio gear) impacts their qualification to pass judgement upon the item(s) being auditioned! It's not the ONLY factor, but it IS an important factor. This doesn't mean that some people aren't naturally "gifted" at doing the same thing (judging sonic quality) with far less experience. But, I'll state the obvious (to me)...all other things being equal, the person who has more experience listening and evaluating a particular type of gear IS more qualified to pass judgement upon it.

As with so many things in life, saying something just doesn't make it so. Saying that experience counts for nothing just doesn't make it true! If I found myself in the market for a car, a friend who's a mechanic wouldn't be a bad person to turn to for advice! If I were to shop for a house, I would assume that a friend who's a carpenter/contractor IS more qualified than the average person to give advice. If I were in the market for a microphone for recording voice, I certainly would be intrerested in input from other people in radio production who hear the sound of their own voices reproduced through microphones constantly. And if you were in the market for headphones, it would not be illogical to assume that someone who has worn, and critically listened to them for many hours a day over a period of 27 years might have an informed opinion.

Since I am of above average intelligence, and do have this experience, I consider it neither boastful nor arrogant to assert that I know something of what I'm talking about. Saying that I don't, and can't make it true.

I agree with Tyll that experimentation is a good thing. "Tweaking" is a large part of the fun of audio. But in life there ARE stupid ideas! While taping shut the back of an exquisite pair of open-aire headphones like the HD-600 may not be the stupidest of ideas, I assure you that it also IS NOT THE BRIGHTEST!
post #58 of 60
Dear Mike,

My main reason for being upset with you is your blatant overuse of the word lobotomy as if such a thing could even be concieved of as funny. Do you realize that thousand upon thousands of American citizens were lobotomized EN MASSE' during the early 20th century?? Making jokes about it is sort of like joking about the death of millions of Jews in the holocaust. IMHO humor can be a deadly weapon against the mind. You simply scream and yell without thought seeking to provoke reaction from anyone you can solely for the prevention of boredom. Humor is a dire weapon against society... the more you laugh at something the more you accept it. AND THAT IS THE TRUTH, the evidence is everywhere. Comedy is not a cure all, f*** comedy, its funny when somebody misspeaks, its funny if someone is trully witty. IT IS NOT funny when someone is "witty" and IGNORANT at the same time such as yourself.

Do you know who Francis Farmer is? She was a brilliant young actress who was lobotomized using the ice-pick lobotomy method. The ice-pick lobotomy is executed by taking a slender metal pick and hammering it into the corner of each eye socket straight into the brain. The pick is then swung at 2 45 degree angles chopping the frontal lobe. This believe it or not was acknowledged by some as a cure for "mental illness". The perverse doctor who promoted this type of lobotomy used to perform hundred upon hundreds for hours on end. Other doctors witnessing the event were known to vomit at the utter carnage being displayed in there hospitals. this is a sad and little known part of American history. It continues to this day in the form of chemicals. Prozac, zoloft, paxil, fen-phen,
and redux are all chemical lobotomies. The drug prozac is being prescribed to children for gods sake. One of my sisters friends takes prozac, IT SHOULD NOT be given to a mind that is still developing. The action of these chemicals is not as permanent as the action of the ice pick but it performs the same basic function, essentially large parts of the brain are numbed to the point where they are no longer functioning. Continued use or overuse can permanantely alter you psyche.

You see mike, your humor while not funny to me has the effect of making some one laugh at the word lobotomy. Thus subconsciously the association to lobotomy is slowly changed from bad to ok. Or maybe even funny, thus when one is presented with a real experience regarding lobotomy they react with indifference rather than the necessary anger. My friend, there is no greater torture than the death of the mind. To be alive and aware yet uable to interact with your world as you did before.... Your spirit enconsed in the stoney useless body!!!

post #59 of 60
I see why your title is what it is, ai0tron.
post #60 of 60
Originally posted by eric343
I see why your title is what it is, ai0tron.

Okay, gentlemen (and ladies), I'm locking this one up. Hope y'all understand.
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