12/12/04 NYC - 3rd (Unofficial) Qualia store Mini meet

jahn, nice post.

the salesman's name is jay. the qualia is a winner on my rigs. all of them! it just needs heaps of burn-in time. the cable is microphonic when it is not even plugged in. immtbiker suggests wearing a pirate shirt of taffetta or velveteen to reduce the cable noise. anyone know where i can buy a pirate shirt of the material described?

the qualia is a very nice compliment to any serious headphone selection if you can afford the price.

I had a pleasant time today at the Qualia store. I was looking forward to hearing a more burned in Qualia. I think there was more bass and more importantly less etchy treble.

The setup was a "budget" one, 9000es -> GWLabs DSP (modded by me) in 24/96 mode -> ART DI/O (modded by Boldercables and futher by me) but at the end I found it to be superior to the 9000es's redbook playback. A Grado RA1, and the headphone jack from the CD player were also used. I believe 9000es is like $2000 player and the cheaper stereo version is like probably 1000+ (I don't know the model) but certainly these aren't the cheap players so our setup wasn't that budget. I also voice my mods/tweaks for neutrality and detail which is how I like things.

I think the DAC and amp needed warm up time. I don't think anybody liked these things cold although you could still make out the Qualia did sound tonally different than before (with more bass and less etchy treble).

>>>>But honestly, it still didn't knock my socks off.

If you want to be wowed, it'll take a case of lots of bass or soundstage or some particular characteristic BUT I think it's fairly balanced. It should sound natural enough that you should just forget about the headphone. I think it's more faithful to the recordings and showed good variation with them. When a system is more colored, I tend to tire of that easily since the same sonic signature is imparted to all recordings. Staying in that fine line in the middle is hard to juggle.

>>>>But in the end, commercial coloration has its place and I wouldn't necessarily ditch the RS-1 for the Qualia if that's the signature you prefer. The Qualia is eye-popping in its accuracy, but it gets the brain racing - not necessarily the gut.

Certainly if you can handle the coloration all the time or you can take a break with another headphones or system, it's cool. I don't consider more accuracy too brain racing as I find it easier to forget. You still have some leverage with the "power" of the system when choosing the source, amp, power conditioning, cables, etc. As you witnessed with the PS1 system last time, it was over the top for you but that same system could pass that extra energy into other headphones also.

Wasn't it Cyrus (the tall fellow) that helped us first and Jay the other guy who came in?

>>>BTW i expected the combo of the 9000ES and the RA-1 to be super bright and annoying, especially with the RS-1.

RS1 is smoother in the highes than the SR325s and lower end grados in my experiences. Magwires are also so I didn't expect this to be a bad combo especially out of the 9000ES.

the funniest part to me was when jay(supernice guy and helpful) said that "you know that we find that people that critically listen rarely buy the qualias but the majority of their buyers are just rich people who want the best"...i tend to agree...if you are listening and trying to find value for the bucks it is a tougher sell..

jahn...excellent point...you are right i was anticipating/hoping for the sonic impact going from rs-1 to 010 as we had when going from a lifetime of crappy cans to rs-1...but it wasnt there...the differences were more subtle..so it looks like the cash will go towards a better source first as most of you already realized i had to do...
cheers

I echo that statement. The RS-1's are a seductive can, and it would take a lot to overthrow it in that department. A better quality source will only improve on that experience. This I do not understand. To me, the word "transparent" means that it simply allows whatever is coming thru to do so unhindered, without imparting anything.

I also don't understand when someone says that the 010 was designed for the latest & greatest hi-res sources, and that (even a really good) vinyl setup will not do the Qualia's justice.

Are people looking for accuracy and transparency (ie. trueness to whatever source you are listening to), or a coloration? I know what I prefer, but I read a lot of conflicting comments in the recent Qualia threads.

EDIT!!!

I've deleted my initial post after reading jpelg's comments (immediately below). I wasn't aware that Sony had an XA-9000ES player, which is a much newer and more expensive model than the S-9000ES that I was referring to. Thus, my previous comments were irrelevant, and to keep them here would just cause confusion.

9000es?

The Sony SACD player in the Qualia store is the SCD-XA9000ES, like this one:



Retail price is US$3000, with street prices ranging from just under US$2k.

Unless someone brought their own 9000es (a completely different, and older model), then that is the deck used as the transport. Which was it guys?

jpelg,
the one sony uses is the one you posted..3000 retail piece of work....i liked the player a lot...
they had a cheesy es amp hooked up but decided to bypass it as they felt it didnt help the sound...
they actually asked jahn what type of headphone amps to get and didnt limit the choices to sony products....jahn can explain what he told them to get so if you go to nyc and dont like their setup blame jahn....

I believe he also said most of the people who buy it are into classical and jazz.

After a certain point, you can't really notice the greatness of a headphone without better everything before it.

I believe a better headphone will show everything before it colored or not. It shouldn't matter what was before it.

Sorry about the 9000es confusion. This XA9000ES was the SACD player not the DVD player. I recall bozebuttons has the DVD player.

Pete's points (head included)

Hi, Y'All!

I'll start this with an almost-quoted 4 paragraphs that I posted elsewhere to Bosk, who was wondering if it was possible to spend all the money on the Qualias and drive them with a cheap amp since they're so efficient ... and then I'll reply to the comments here.

The Qualias don't require a lot of power to produce a loud, pleasant sound, but they won't be anywhere near their best without a superb amp that's well matched to the very sensitive and revealing phones.

Quality recordings are important as well. Poor quality recordings can sound much better on other forgiving phones, while the Qualias pass all inadequacies thru and you might think the Qualias are the problem -- until you compare the "forgiving" cans and Qualias with a great recording and the Qualias open up a window to the music that the lesser cans can't access. Amps that are poorly matched to the Qs (especially with troublesome recordings) can make you want to yank the Qualias off you head (only a tiny bit exaggerated to make a point).

To give a more practical compromise viewpoint, I heard them briefly on Sunday (12/12/04) at the Qualia store through the diminutive Grado RA-1 amp, and also Jahn's Pink-Mod GSP Solo and the Qs were very listenable through both amps, in slightly different ways. I expected the Solo to sound pretty good which it did, but the RA-1 was a nice surprise. No huge bass impact, but bass was there and very tight. Mids were almost "silken" with plenty of nuances, air and ambient sounds. The RA-1 sounded better with the Qs than with the Grado RS-1 which should have been the better match (yes I felt the Qs sounded better, based on my comments down at the bottom).

Anyway, as you have or will read around the forums, the Qualias transmit so much "information" that they really need the best available ancillary components -- amps, cables, power, transport, "source", recordings, etc. -- to sound their best. Seriously -- every link in the chain. On Sunday we just changed interconnects and the sound changed dramatically for the better. (...so much for the "cables are minor tweaks" gangs that keep reappearing...).

I had to leave early so I can't say for sure whether or not some or all of that improvement was still the Art/DIO warmup issue. Perhaps Lan, Jahn or 1911 can sort that out.

The RS-1 obviously had more bass boom, but was so colored (all sorts of additions & subtractions) that it would really set my nerves on edge if I had to listen to it more than a short while. I happen to like big bass impact, when it exists in a performance, but I like to hear bass that's tight, fast and well-integrated so it doesn't obliterate the midrange and throw the whole spectrum out of balance -- which I felt the RS-1 did.

As Nik and a lot of other experienced Qualia listeners keep repeating, you will not hear all the bass the Q can produce -- or the best of any of its sonic capabilities -- without the best amp, etc.

STEVIEO -- what amps do you feel send great sound through your Qualias, based on your personal experiences?

We know about Nik's RP010, and have heard (heresay, not listening) that Rudi's RP-033 is promising -- and we'll personally hear more in January at Aaron's.

Anyway, once again what we heard was necessarily just a tease. Watch out -- Nik will jump on our heads again! No point judging and writing off the Qualias based on the modest chain we used. In my mind, it was the best option available to give 1911 an idea of the Q's sonic character -- and a progress check of how burn-in may have improved them -- so keep an open mind for future, more suitable auditioning.

For me, even the brief hour with those modest components, was fun. I like the Qualias more every time I hear them -- and I always keep in mind the perspective of the limitations of the electronics preceding them. Can't wait 'til Jan. 30 ... More fun!

Cheers

Minor....

Jahn -- a minor clarification of my notes. I was still there when Solo opened up. I certainly prefer(red) the Solo to the RA-1 ... I was just noting that I was surprised at what a nice sound the RA-1 created with the Q010, but I did not prefer it over the Solo by any means. I was just startled that the Q010 sounded much prettier thru the RA-1 than the "matched" RS-1.