With mp3 playback now a reality for Sony DAPs..

It doesn't have twice the battery life of the iPod, unless you can listen to 48 Kbps ATRACs without blowing chunks. Its battery life is roughly comparable to the 40 GB photo iPod's (15+ hours) when tunes are ripped at high enough quality to be tolerable. [Added: Sony claims 27 hrs. of battery life with 64 and 128 kbps ATRAC files, but actual tests by reviewers show it's more like the low 20s. As for the photo iPod, ipodlounge got 17 hours on one charge].

The NW-HD3 is smaller but has only 20GB? Guess it only boils down to what you need.

I'll probably have something to say when I've had more time on the HD3.

How much was it? I was thinking in getting a HD but lack of MP3 support made me go for an iPod Photo 60....

17 hours is plenty long enough for many. I rarely go more than 8 hours without hooking my iPod up to something that charges it (like my laptop or my car's cigarette lighter), and 17 hours is long enough for even trans-Pacific flights.

As for battery replacement, there will be relatively inexpensive and simple third-party DIY solutions for the iPod photo soon, if they're not available already. Of course you void your warranty going the third-party route, so the Sony does still have a small edge there.

One advantage that the Sony does have that might be significant for some here is gapless playback, but I don't miss it on the iPod. I have my songs on shuffle 99% of the time.

However, Apple has done a lot more for portable "MP3" players and the audio quality of music on "MP3" players than Sony. Sony's advocacy of 48 kbps ATRAC3 (ATRAC3 is a fine codec, but atrocious at that bitrate) is an audio crime.

Finlayene, I agree with you about Sony deserving credit for quality audio and propelling personal audio (for Walkman and far lesser extent MD - I only see two companies on this list and Apple is DEFF the other), but the props they deserve, is compromised greatly by their extended conflicting business model (which you've reference). The resulting internal war of divisions deserves criticism and the lack of MP3 support is but one result (don't get me started on what they've done to film). There may be some that don't "understand Sony's position with MP3s", but there are many that do... and don't like it.

When Sony stops putting crappy 5mW outputs on their portables, stops using ATRAC3+ entirely, stops copy-protecting the hell out of everything and makes their products easier to use and more competitively priced, then I'll think about it.

As a former MD user, I've become so insanely frustrated with Sony's incompetency when it comes to the manufacturing of digital audio players that I just gave up and bought an iPod. I'm much happier now.

It's my firm belief that Sony is the Japanese word for "shortsighted."

Ironically enough, they jump on the bandwagon and blow everyone else out of the water. I've listened to a lot of DAPs and the only one I find that comes EVEN CLOSE to the iPod is the Rio Karma. Too bad it's huge and ugly, or I might be carrying it instead of an iPod.

Apple's position in this market is much better than Sony's. With Sony's ownership of intellectual property (music) they are not going to make a DAP that is easy to use with your possibly stolen music. No, they're going to shove DRM and proprietary formats down your throat. Nevermind the fact that they support the standard now, they're still going to make you wrap it in the OpenMG copy protection BS.

As far as I'm concerned, Sony has to work a lot harder if it wants me to buy one of its DAPs. If they fixed all these problems I have with their products, I'd be more than willing to try them again. But since that'll never freakin' happen, I'm sticking with my iPod Mini. =P

Have you ever heard the nomad jukebox 3 because that blows the ipod out of the water, imho. My sister has an ipod, i have a micro zen and the njb3, the njb3 clearly can power my 7506's, grado cans and even my senn 580's a bit. The ipod to my ears just sounds too damn sterile and that lack of bass punch really sucks out too much music for me, the micro zen is just a tad better in terms of bass response but it also appears to have some difficulty is providing enough juice to power my 7506's in terms of pushing those low notes.

A couple of points. Apple didn't jump on the bandwagon. They created the desire for the ride. Yes, Rio did possibly the hardest work with lawsuits defending the 300, but realistically any hard player prior made zero dent in the public conscience. Apple didn't do the technical innovation Sony did in the 80's, but they took [mostly] off the shelf parts, linked up with PortalPlayer for the OS, and did the famous contract with Toshiba to lock in the emerging 1.8" disk. The iPod is the new Walkman, period. They deserve credit for in essence creating the product... and the yardstick.

As for Apple's biz model and marketplace, etc. very true to many they've made many mistakes. Their long-term closed system** (really a bit more about OS 9 and before than OS X) has likely been a big reason for their share of the steak, but it's also why they have a system that works in a way it does. Believe me after 19 years on a PC (and I'm back to making a living again as a MS ASP programmer) it's a joy the last three to come home to OS X and not worry about of those traditional Windows issues. No IRQ conflicts. No wiping the drive every 6-12 months to keep things clean. No worries a program install is going to fight for dominance with another. No viruses. The list goes on.

An Apple certainly isn't for everyone, but they provide a integrated 'system' of components that function significantly different from the user perspective than Windows. The famous 'just works' angle. Whether you're playing music, making DVDs, whatever. If Sony provided something equivalent in personal electronics/audio, their closed system would be greater to argue with. The 'but it's worth it for X' is hard to ignore. But it's not there. They kinda tried with the whole VAIO system of computers/audio/cameras, but it never really amounted to anything special.

** For the record OS X is much more agnostic about things than Windows. Mount a PC FAT32 drive in Mac - sure. Load up PC TTF fonts - sure. On email append extensions on files for PC users - sure. Etc.

I don't understand how when a company began making a product is relevant to a purchase decision in this case. So because Sony invented the walkman we all owe them our undying gratitude and loyalty? Sure, Sony practically invented the idea of portable audio, but since then they've burned their customers with ATRAC, questionable-quality PDCDPs, etc. And I hear their customer service isn't so hot, either.

I believe that when companies get a large market share and are a prestige label in a certain industry (portable audio) they tend to sit back, get fat and believe that everyone will continue to buy their products "because it's a Sony, dude!" The products sometimes suffer, or just new product and design incentive isn't there, which is how someone like Apple can come in and steal their thunder.

As for Apple, it's not as though they just popped up out of nowhere, it's only that they started making DAPs recently (and before Sony).

To make an analogy: Ford did a lot for helping to create high-quality inexpensive automobiles and has done a lot for the auto industry. Therefore the responsible thing is to buy a Ford, not a Nissan, since they "jumped on the bandwagon" later on.