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Qualia 010 and R10 initial comparison - Page 4

post #46 of 65
Tomcat that reminds me of an experience i had once when learning the saxophone. I loved jazz, but then when i started playing it on the sax, i became very critical at live performances and i couldn't just enjoy the music anymore. after a while i realized that in jazz, flaws were part of the charm of live performance and if anything they should increase my enjoyment of jazz - to listen not in the studio but rather in the streets where it was created.

i'm not saying that the R10 is flawed lol. But I do say that it gives me a more pleasurable emotional response without losing any ground to the 010 in my humble opinion, and therefore I would choose it over the 010.
post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
...I just listened for 2 or 3 seconds with the HD 650, that you have in a "nude" version and with a good cable, but MY impressions, or better the impressions of my ears (at this time "Qualized"), was simply ORRIBLE. I do not have a hedaphone in my head, I had the impressions like a big wall between me and the music, and I cannot come back.
Nik, what amp were you using for auditioning the HD 650? If it was the RP010, this impression should be taken with a grain of salt: We all know that the RP010 was designed to have optimal synergy with the Qualia, meaning it sounds dark, so it's only logical that it won't have an equal synergy with the Sennheiser.

post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
Nik, what amp were you using for auditioning the HD 650? If it was the RP010, this impression should be taken with a grain of salt: We all know that the RP010 was designed to have optimal synergy with the Qualia, meaning it sounds dark, so it's only logical that it won't have an equal synergy with the Sennheiser.

..
edited .. I listen the combination for a bit more time ...anyway I'll wait for Nik to answer , even if I'm sure he passed too little time with ( he just is too much qualized to get back easy to hd650 sound and they are 2 very different things )
post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugano-san
There still a major flaw in your methodology: The truth is, you have no way of knowing "what is exctly recorded in that CD". Because of that, there is no standard of "neutrality" against which you could measure the performance of hifi gear. All you can do is tell us if you like what you hear.

You like what you hear? Well, that's great! We're all very happy for you.

Your true intentions appear to be much more accurately described by the title of another thread: "Am I the first owner ??? Qualia 010 !!!"

You like being the first owner? Well, that's great! We're all very happy for you.
I'm very sorry dear friend, but you are totally OT, because you don't understand one only word of what I'm telling, please, let this trhead that is so interesting for many of us, thanks a lot!

Nicola
post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcat
Hi Nicola,

I hope you're well!

I know, I'm late: congratulations on your new headphones and your new amp! I'd say I wish you a lot of fun with it - but since you are into information...

You say your goal is "presentation of musical information". What is that? How is music "information"? How is a musical performance "information"? How is musical perception the perception of "information"? To me, the emotional effect of music is inseperably linked to my desire to listen to music, live or recorded. I want to have fun when I listen to music, I want to enjoy it, I want to be moved by it. If I had the merely technical goal of perceiveing "musical information", I'd read the score. I guess that's musical information in its most reduced, its purest form. If I was only interested in musical "information", I'd never attend a concert, and I'd never enjoy a performance.

And in the end, Nicola, I'm not into this hobby because I want to listen to what my player is reproducing, I don't want to listen to my source, I want to listen to music. To me, the very best systems are the ones we forget about as soon as we hear them. To me, it's about the recorded music, and not about the means to reproduce it. Once we lose sight of that, the means have become the end.

True music reproduction is not about some notion of neutrality, it's about the music. Well, it should be.
Hi tomcat,

nice to see you again.

Can I just answer with this? I can have two systems, one for the pleasure of my personal listening and another one for the highest level of fidelity in recorded music. Right? The two systems are not one against the other !!! Just two differents kind of things ...

Best!
Nicola
post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
Nik, what amp were you using for auditioning the HD 650? If it was the RP010, this impression should be taken with a grain of salt: We all know that the RP010 was designed to have optimal synergy with the Qualia, meaning it sounds dark, so it's only logical that it won't have an equal synergy with the Sennheiser.

May be was this... but I can tell how much I was impressioned for the black, closed, dark of the HD 650 ... very, very impressioned. I repeat, the direct comparison with the Omega/Egmont was not like this: the sound was only colored a lot and an irreal bass...

With the RP5 cav the HD 650 was simply fantastic and I remember very well hou much I loved that sound...

Best!
Nicola
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
Hi boodi,

not so easy (as you now know) to give a opinon for a totally new object as the Qualia 010 is.

You had not a lot of time to have a "correct" idea about the system, I think. You even must consider that you was listening in a totally different setup (source, cables ...). In this setup the fidelity is very, very hi! So if you do not test the sound with a lot of differents recordings you can have a wrong impression. Tell me please what did you have epxerimented with the only one classical CD you have listened, this is very interesting...

As you have noticed I just listened for 2 or 3 seconds with the HD 650, tha you have in a "nude" version and with a good cable, but MY impressions, or better the impressions of my ears (at this time "Qualized"), was simply ORRIBLE. I do not have a hedaphone in my head, I had the impressions like a big wall between me and the music, and I cannot come back. Not the same impressions I had listening to the Omega/Egmont, that I found colored and not so neutral, but no any wall...

Best!
Nicola
Nik, this is a post of mine (Chumley response) from another thread...

"Originally Posted by SliPkNoT
I would say the Sennheiser HD600s because a lot of people still think that they are the best dynamic headphones. Of course, we know that the Sony R10s are the best. I am still waiting to find a used pair myself."


Sorry couldn't post them for sale here ... promised first crack at them, to, of all people, my first wife... she paid too much ...

Using the R10s in place of the Senns in this lineup: Shanling SCD-7200 SACD player>Emmeline HR-2>w/Cardas cable>Senn HD 650, I found virtually NO enhancements over the Senns. I've tried 3 R10s in this lineup in the past. Invited friends, many of whom are working pros in audio (thier clients include Springsteen, Diana Krall, etc.), to try 'em back-to-back with the Senns. We all agreed that the R10s are overpriced and overrated, and that the Senns were the best dynamic headphone investment one can make.

The R10s got plugged into Meridian SACD sources, amps from a Grace 901 to a Blockhead w/ SA's... still, virtually no improvement over the above system's results.

I have listened extensively to some of the higher-end ES systems, like the late great orpheus, etc. that will kill the HD 650s, but I have kids to put through school and travelling to do with my (second, and last) wife ... priorities, priorities...

I know there are many folks to whom the R10s are the last word in dynamic headphones... let's just say that I ain't one of them.

EDIT: the Qualia 010 got the same treatment as the R10s above; it does better overall than an unbalanced HD650 setup, but... HD650s/Silver Dragon or Cardas, in a fully balanced setup, with a Blockhead/SA's is fully the sonic equal to the Qualias... while some shuffling of sources was done for the Qualia, no 'heroic' actions were performed... fully balanced setup/HD650s sounded as good, overall, as the 010s."

Obviously, this is IMO; also the * unanimous * opinion of six other folks, all audio engineers, producers, etc., who've worked extensively with the clients above, also a few musicians... I should also note that fully 'dialing in' the source for any of the above hasn't been done by me, with the exception of the HD 650s... but to say they are all roughly at the same level isn't the out of hand absurd claim that you might think it is...
post #53 of 65
These debate and first impression from some members (Mikhail, the NYC squad) has been very interesting. Thank you all guys for sharing your impression on various threads and posts.

It seems these phone are far from beeing the new 'king'. This is just supposition so flame me as you will, but am i the only one who see just hype, marketing tricks, overpriced product aimed for some yuppies and sold in 'special' store?. I would like to say "wake up", open your eyes guys, a 2MP digicam at $4,000, a consumer grade video projector at $30,000, while you can have a professional Barco UR7000 for $27,000 who should smoke the Qualia thing. This Qualia line reminds me more of B&O than anything else, but maybe that's just me!.

From the first impression it seems they are bright, with lack of bass, forward with tons of details (around the driver they are shaped like horn).

Also i would be curious to know which mic. they have used to mesure 120 Khz!! I mean just annoucing 120 Khz is enough for me. I wont bet €100 on that line.
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat
True music reproduction is not about some notion of neutrality, it's about the music. Well, it should be.
Lately, I am beginning to understand what Tomcat has been talking about all along. IMO, the Qualia 010 does not produce in this regard, and I do not believe any combination of amplifier, or interconnects, or magic pixie dust will make it do so. If you like it - great, but "relaxingly enjoyable" are not words I'd use to describe the sound coming from the 010's.

Nik's progression in equipment preferences is interesting. I recall reading some of his early comments on his R10/Angstrom system, where he spoke of listening for the most life-like sound. Now he talks about faithfulness to the recording, which may be different, I guess. Language differences certainly may account for my lack of understanding here. But I am still trying to get my head around what his preferences truly are so that I can really appreciate his reviews, and correlate them with my own preferences.

In the meantime, enjoy your system Nik!
post #55 of 65
I try to explain what I'm learning with this lat setup ... and thanks to the Qualia. My only interest is to tell you guys what I learn... so all the post that speak of other littel considerations I think are not so interesting...

After a lot of headpohnes and most of the best onthe world, I have now this concept: I judge the best headphone (and even amps and sorces ...) that one that has the biggest "variablity" in sound. If you can listen some of your CD so bad, but so bad that you never whant to hear them another time and when you can listen another CD so good, so good that you cannot stop your player, surely you have the best setup you can desire... this is only my perosnal opinion. I do not whant more that kind system that gives to the owner hours and hours of pleasure ... NO! If I whant this I go the concert. I do not need to have the Linn Sondek just for this... I remember one of the mpst pleasure setup I had was the little Rega Planet with the MF Xcan and the Grado RS-1, good, very good and all the CD was so good and the music was very relaxed ... I do not whant more a thing like that! Or even the RP5 cav + HD 650, the same very, very good music I listened from that setup...

The Qualia 010 (I think is the most advanced headphone ever made) has this "variability" so hi, that I never see before. This is the first point I consider when I judge one headphone !!!

Best!
Nicola
post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
May be was this... but I can tell how much I was impressioned for the black, closed, dark of the HD 650 ... very, very impressioned. I repeat, the direct comparison with the Omega/Egmont was not like this: the sound was only colored a lot and an irreal bass...

With the RP5 cav the HD 650 was simply fantastic and I remember very well hou much I loved that sound...

Best!
Nicola
so...

for me , the rp010 keep the rudistor s.s. + it behave well with hd650 .
post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
With the RP5 cav the HD 650 was simply fantastic and I remember very well how much I loved that sound...
I know exactly what you're talking about... keeping Kurt's RP5cav during his holidays. I have my reservations against this amp though, as «good» as it sounds. (And BTW I'm ready to believe that the 010 is as good as you're claiming, including the ominous consequences and despite the obviously thin bass.)

post #58 of 65
I'm still not expecting that much from them despite the generally favourable press so far, but I do hope they don't turn out to be an overpriced RP-HDA100...
post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
I know exactly what you're talking about... keeping Kurt's RP5cav during his holidays. I have my reservations against this amp though, as «good» as it sounds. (And BTW I'm ready to believe that the 010 is as good as you're claiming, including the ominous consequences and despite the obviously thin bass.)

Thin bass ??? I cannot understand... what about your reservations for the RP5 cav with the HD 650 ???

Best!
Nicola
post #60 of 65
NIK' Quote: I'm very sorry dear friend, but you are totally OT, because you don't understand one only word of what I'm telling, please, let this trhead that is so interesting for many of us, thanks a lot!

Gee, Nik and I thought that Mikhail had initiated this thread as a comparison between the Qualia and R-10. You were asking about "neutrality" and you have been the one asserting that your friend (who heard your system) needed to listen correctly.

When Sugano-san expressed himself (his opinions) concerning the meaning of "neutrality" and "correctness" on the part of the listener you seem to be shouting him down as off topic. You say, "My only interest is to tell you guys what I learn... so all the post that speak of other littel considerations I think are not so interesting..." as if you are not only the sole arbiter of what is "best" in headphone listening but also the sole arbiter of what is interesting or "on topic" - even in other people's threads.

Your shared experiences are certainly interesting - and how you arrive at your opinions sometimes more so...but they are not the ONLY opinions of merit. It appears that quite a few others here have different takes on the Qualia than you do and they not only have some fine ears and some fine associated equipment, but they seem to have some fine reasons as well.

Some of these reasons speak directly to the issues of "neutrality" as a concept and its relative importance to the listening experience. To read an opinion expressed by someone with actual experience of the gear and to know how that opinion was formulated and what listening values were weighed in making that opinion helps us in knowing if that piece of gear might hold some interest to us.

Yelling down someone who disagrees with you (even with the help of some bizarre cyber cult of personality) just gets in the way. There is enough bandwidth to express your opinion...even to argue your opinion, without pushing others around because of the, "littel (sic) considerations I think are not so interesting".

What belies the idea of telling someone who disagrees with you to "let (sic) this thread that is so interesting to many of us"? Now are you also going to control whose interest is correct and whose is not?
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