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Qualia 010 and R10 initial comparison - Page 3

post #31 of 65
I read somewhere someone stating that hd650 is superior to both R10 and 010.Is it really?How about another comparison?
post #32 of 65
Mikhail - thank you for a superb comparison of the R-10 and Qualia 010. I can almost hear the differences between them in my imagination from your excellent description.

Even though I have not yet seen nor heard the Qualia 010, your excellent writeup has given me a sense of their essence, because of the comparisons made to the R-10.

Terrific job.

Nik - it is too bad you no longer have R-10's. It would be very interesting to hear your impressions of them compared to your new Qualia 010 on the new Rudi 010 amplifier. I know you love the Qualia, and from Mikhail's review, I can understand why. It would just be very interesting if you could hear R-10 and Qualia from same source at the same time. Congratulations on your new system, and thank you for sharing your impressions with all of us.
post #33 of 65
Well I listened on a totally different rig, at the qualia meet - my modded 3960 and a modded Solo amp (solid state). But I'll answer these questions since i had a bit of time to hear both of these cans. I'll use an acoustic guitar track from a Ferrington Guitar sampler CD as the reference.

[QUOTE=Nik]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhail
I’ve been listening to these headphones side by side for the last week and have some initial impressions of the Qualia 010 headphones VS. the Sony R10’s.

(...).

QUOTE]

Very good test, thanks!

1 question: wich source did you use for this test?

my modded 3960 and a modded Solo amp (solid state)

2 question: which one of the two cans are the most neutral, or better most near to the real recording event?

When I heard the Qualias, I thought they were, but when I heard the R10, I thought THEY were. lol. I wish I was there when they recorded it so i actually knew what the "original natural" recording is supposed to sound like. But as an acoustic guitarist, I'm being truthful when i say that either representation could be an accurate representation of a guitarist's performance.

3 question: did you hear any hiss with the 010 with that tube amp?
Well if it means anything, there was no hiss with the Solo.

4 question: what is "musicality" or "warm"? Something we need to add for a most pleasure sound?

The 010 had a crisper sound - the guitar sounded like it was being played in fall in a low humidity setting and there were less harmonics from each plucked string, and the squeaks of the fingers sliding on the frets was a more metallic sound.

The R10 showed more of the sound of the flesh touching the strings, and the decay of the tone from the string had more of an enveloping nature. not more or less complex, not more or less detailed - just more "woody" or organic.

don't worry - it wasn't like the 010 made the guitar sound like it was being played through an acoustic/electric piezo. it was still acoustic in nature. it was just that the R10 had more of a "sitting in a log cabin" feel rather than "i'm miked up in a studio" feel. i found it more pleasurable to listen to the R10, but in no way does that mean the R10 is colored or loses any information. The 010 just presents it in a different way - according to the Sony rep, in an intentional way. You can even tell from just the look of the cans that they are going for a more technical route, and that's the emotional impression i got after listening to the excellent sounds from both these cans.

5 question: what about confort of the two headphones?

Both are excellent. the pads on the 010 get you less sweaty than the R10 but other than that both are "put them on and forget them" cans.

6 question: what about the medbass of the two?

the mids and the bass? R10 has bass, 010 doesn't. joke! the 010 does have bass, but not to the extent the R10 has. but just because the R10 has more bass, dont think that it is bloated or unbalancing, etc - i felt the R10 had the "right" amount, while the 010 was "lacking." but that's just my personal preference. Mids/vocals/strings were perfect in both cans.


End of the questions.
Best!
Nicola
Hope that helps! As you can see still I prefer the R10, but this time around the 010 really brought alot to the table.
post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadobhuk
I read somewhere someone stating that hd650 is superior to both R10 and 010.Is it really?How about another comparison?
I heard the HD650 with silver dragon cable through my same rig, and although the 650 is a great can and I would consider it for my next can (in the budget lol) i would still take the R10 in a heartbeat over it. The 010...hmm, the 010 does everything better but bass, so for the price difference i'd choose the 650. But the 010 really just needs bass to kill the 650, and for those who aren't as bass-loving, they'd go for the 010 in a heartbeat over the 650.

btw i'm not bass CRAZED - just loving. for instance i preferred the HP-1 over the PS-1 because the PS-1 was too much.
post #35 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadobhuk
I read somewhere someone stating that hd650 is superior to both R10 and 010.Is it really?How about another comparison?
sorry, but i have the hd650 currently and i really don't think the hd650 is up there with the r10 or qualia.at least not with the setup i have at the moment. it might be close though. don't forget to spend a lot of money on good source and amp as well. maybe the new qualia might be my cup of tea.
post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahn
I heard the HD650 with silver dragon cable through my same rig, and although the 650 is a great can and I would consider it for my next can (in the budget lol) i would still take the R10 in a heartbeat over it. The 010...hmm, the 010 does everything better but bass, so for the price difference i'd choose the 650. But the 010 really just needs bass to kill the 650, and for those who aren't as bass-loving, they'd go for the 010 in a heartbeat over the 650.

btw i'm not bass CRAZED - just loving. for instance i preferred the HP-1 over the PS-1 because the PS-1 was too much.
Jahn,

please don't forget that the bass of the hd650 can be a bit boomy sometimes as well. In that respect the lambda is also a bit bass shy as well, i guess.

I think the point is when you start fiddeling around with the bass of the qualia, the bass could easally take over and outballance the whole sound.

P.s. what do you think about the silver dragon? i am looking for a cable upgrade and the two contenders are silver dragon and zu mobius.
post #37 of 65
I've been to 'Nik and did have a very short listen to Qualia system .

I'd have to say these can needs a bit of time to get you adapted to their sound sig. For me , hd650 are really more direct speak , wearing the qualia after hd650 was like they were more subtle speaking and it took quite a time to "reach" the sound .

The thing you notice the most when you get them on ( I'm used to hd650 ) is they are lightweight , I've had not another equal feeling of being all in one with the headphones on your head.

The deatils ... well yes , they've got them , and they are probably very sensible too . So , rather then define a color of them , if you try to define something from them is you're probably defining the most your rig ' output colour .

It's not easy to imagine the right amp for them , I listened to them trough the rp 010 and I feel there's room for improvement for feeding well the Qualia.. ( the rp010 was not fully burned though , nor the qualia were )

Hd650 in comparison sound very fat and "big" and you have a bulky thing on your head , while qualia are more of a 2004 3D very easy object to wear .

I expect also , as nik say , a very long period for burning ( probably a lot more then 150h , mo given to the sponge-like material used to build the driver )
post #38 of 65
I liked the HD650 with the silver dragon - i didn't feel there was any veil at all - and that's coming from a grado lover. Sorry, never heard the zu mobius.

I hear what you are saying about the 010 and bass - i was told by Josh that he felt the 010 actually had bass when put into the Supra tube setup, but the Cary tube amp allowed the 010 to have more detail. Perhaps adding any more bass to the 010 would result in boominess or an unbalanced presentation for those cans. On the other hand, the lack of detail in the supra could have been because one of the tubes was humming, something that will be corrected in the next tryout with that amp i'm sure!
post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by boodi
I've been to 'Nik listening for the Qualia system .

I'd have to say these can needs a bit of time to get you adapted to their sound sig. For me , hd650 are really more direct speak , wearing the qualia after hd650 was like they were more subtle speaking and it took quite a time to "reach" the sound .

The thing you notice the most when you get them on ( I'm used to hd650 ) is they are REALLY lightweight , I've had not another equal feeling of being all in one with the headphones on your head.

The deatils ... well yes , they've got them , and they are probably very sensible too . So , rather then define a color of them , if you try to define something from them you're probably defining the most your rig ' output colour .


It's not easy to imagine the right amp for them , I listened to them trough the rp010 and I feel there's very big room for improvement for feeding well the Qualia.. ( the rp010 was not fully burned though , nor the qualia were ) . Surely they will benefit of a custom built refined and detailing amp .

Hd650 in comparison sound very fat and "big" and you have a bulky thing on your head , while qualia are more of a 2004 3D very easy object to wear .
so, you really think the hd650 isn't that bad at all.

the new Mr. Gilmore amp might be the right answer then? lots of juice.
it is a 2 box design with very large power supplies and a dual mono setup.

i saw some first impression pics and it looked very awesome. it is also very large for a headphone amp. everything is oversized!
according to Mr. Gilmore himself this new amp is design specifically for the Qualia.
post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahn
I liked the HD650 with the silver dragon - i didn't feel there was any veil at all - and that's coming from a grado lover. Sorry, never heard the zu mobius.

I hear what you are saying about the 010 and bass - i was told by Josh that he felt the 010 actually had bass when put into the Supra tube setup, but the Cary tube amp allowed the 010 to have more detail. Perhaps adding any more bass to the 010 would result in boominess or an unbalanced presentation for those cans. On the other hand, the lack of detail in the supra could have been because one of the tubes was humming, something that will be corrected in the next tryout with that amp i'm sure!
thanks.

i am leaning more and more to the silver dragon.

the cary is famous for it's fine detailed sound. hence the price.(normally around 5000 dollars or so???)
post #41 of 65
Hi all,

I'm really convinced that the Qualia 010 is the most advanced headphone ever made between the dynamics and the electrostatics, all the headphones. I hope you understand my opinion not just because I own a Qualia... I'm not interested in this kind of discussions, I'm only telling my personal opinion based on my experiences with many TOP cans.

When I speak of neutral and of the original event in the recording I'm nont speaking of the "real" (live) but what is exctly recorded in that CD. There are a lot of things that even with the Omega I never heard. If a little reverber or something else are recorded you must listen them.

As I said a lot of times I'm not looking for the most pleasure headphones system of the world, no! I'm for the most precise in the sense of fidel presentation of the musical information your player is reproducing.

If I like a lot the bass, I buy a double bass, not a headphones! If I like a lot the strings I buy a guitar or ... the hi-end instrument must be correct reproducing each of these musical instruments without preferences, this is my opinion and this is what I'm interested to have.

The Omega/Egmont was more neutral (as I explained) than the R10/Angstrom and I sold the R10/Angstrom. Now the Qualia/RP010 is much more neutral than the Omega/Egmont, this is sure! And with the same coherent I sold the Omega/Egmont.

All the other cans, as Grados, Sennheisers and others, are not in the same class of these 3 cans we are speaking.

If you listen for five minutes the Qualia and than you come back to the HD 650 you have a wall in front of you.

Not so easy to find the perfect or a good driver for the Qualia, very sensitive. I doubt that there is just one tube amp that do not produce some hiss or hum with this can... and even a lot of SS amps.

To be honest the RP010 goes incredibly better than the RP5 cav that was a bit noisy with the Qualia (and perfect with the HD 650). But I can hear a very, very ,very little "ssss" even with the RP010, this hiss is always lower than any other hiss I can hear in the recordings (even in ECM records), so I'm not so disturbed, but Rudi told me that he will do something for delete this hiss. He is also thinking to change the pot for a DACT. I'll tell you soon...

This is what I think, but as every new and advanced thing, we need to understand well what we have in our hands.

Best!
Nicola
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by boodi
I've been to 'Nik and did have a very short listen to Qualia system .

I'd have to say these can needs a bit of time to get you adapted to their sound sig. For me , hd650 are really more direct speak , wearing the qualia after hd650 was like they were more subtle speaking and it took quite a time to "reach" the sound .

The thing you notice the most when you get them on ( I'm used to hd650 ) is they are lightweight , I've had not another equal feeling of being all in one with the headphones on your head.

The deatils ... well yes , they've got them , and they are probably very sensible too . So , rather then define a color of them , if you try to define something from them is you're probably defining the most your rig ' output colour .

It's not easy to imagine the right amp for them , I listened to them trough the rp 010 and I feel there's room for improvement for feeding well the Qualia.. ( the rp010 was not fully burned though , nor the qualia were )

Hd650 in comparison sound very fat and "big" and you have a bulky thing on your head , while qualia are more of a 2004 3D very easy object to wear .

I expect also , as nik say , a very long period for burning ( probably a lot more then 150h , mo given to the sponge-like material used to build the driver )
Hi boodi,

not so easy (as you now know) to give a opinon for a totally new object as the Qualia 010 is.

You had not a lot of time to have a "correct" idea about the system, I think. You even must consider that you was listening in a totally different setup (source, cables ...). In this setup the fidelity is very, very hi! So if you do not test the sound with a lot of differents recordings you can have a wrong impression. Tell me please what did you have epxerimented with the only one classical CD you have listened, this is very interesting...

As you have noticed I just listened for 2 or 3 seconds with the HD 650, tha you have in a "nude" version and with a good cable, but MY impressions, or better the impressions of my ears (at this time "Qualized"), was simply ORRIBLE. I do not have a hedaphone in my head, I had the impressions like a big wall between me and the music, and I cannot come back. Not the same impressions I had listening to the Omega/Egmont, that I found colored and not so neutral, but no any wall...

Best!
Nicola
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
When I speak of neutral and of the original event in the recording I'm nont speaking of the "real" (live) but what is exctly recorded in that CD.
There still a major flaw in your methodology: The truth is, you have no way of knowing "what is exctly recorded in that CD". Because of that, there is no standard of "neutrality" against which you could measure the performance of hifi gear. All you can do is tell us if you like what you hear.

You like what you hear? Well, that's great! We're all very happy for you.

Your true intentions appear to be much more accurately described by the title of another thread: "Am I the first owner ??? Qualia 010 !!!"

You like being the first owner? Well, that's great! We're all very happy for you.
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
Hi boodi,

not so easy (as you now know) to give a opinon for a totally new object as the Qualia 010 is.

You had not a lot of time to have a "correct" idea about the system, I think. You even must consider that you was listening in a totally different setup (source, cables ...). In this setup the fidelity is very, very hi! So if you do not test the sound with a lot of differents recordings you can have a wrong impression. Tell me please what did you have epxerimented with the only one classical CD you have listened, this is very interesting...

As you have noticed I just listened for 2 or 3 seconds with the HD 650, tha you have in a "nude" version and with a good cable, but MY impressions, or better the impressions of my ears (at this time "Qualized"), was simply ORRIBLE. I do not have a hedaphone in my head, I had the impressions like a big wall between me and the music, and I cannot come back. Not the same impressions I had listening to the Omega/Egmont, that I found colored and not so neutral, but no any wall...

Best!
Nicola
yes
I know you can understand one has to be "qualized" to say bad things about hd650 ...i just hadn't enough time to ( ..when I'll come again back to you I'll pass a bit more of time on the system , less on talking ; and also the system will be fully burned ..)
I bet you passed quite a time for realizing the cans where better then the omega/egomnt setup , isn't it ?

to answer about detail..
the kind of detail in listening to some classical , even if again i have to say my ears didn't pass enough time far from hd650 ( so un-trained from a fatter presentation ) was this : I was able to ear a whispered chat among performers on the 1' movement of Rach III ( Decca rec. )

and , Nik , you must forgive me -really my ears aren't so dynamic as to adapt to a complete new sound presentation in such a short time .
post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
As I said a lot of times I'm not looking for the most pleasure headphones system of the world, no! I'm for the most precise in the sense of fidel presentation of the musical information your player is reproducing.
Hi Nicola,

I hope you're well!

I know, I'm late: congratulations on your new headphones and your new amp! I'd say I wish you a lot of fun with it - but since you are into information...

You say your goal is "presentation of musical information". What is that? How is music "information"? How is a musical performance "information"? How is musical perception the perception of "information"? To me, the emotional effect of music is inseperably linked to my desire to listen to music, live or recorded. I want to have fun when I listen to music, I want to enjoy it, I want to be moved by it. If I had the merely technical goal of perceiveing "musical information", I'd read the score. I guess that's musical information in its most reduced, its purest form. If I was only interested in musical "information", I'd never attend a concert, and I'd never enjoy a performance.

And in the end, Nicola, I'm not into this hobby because I want to listen to what my player is reproducing, I don't want to listen to my source, I want to listen to music. To me, the very best systems are the ones we forget about as soon as we hear them. To me, it's about the recorded music, and not about the means to reproduce it. Once we lose sight of that, the means have become the end.

True music reproduction is not about some notion of neutrality, it's about the music. Well, it should be.
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