or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › That analog sound
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

That analog sound - Page 2

post #16 of 40
Would this be anything like the Analoguer on the Meier Audio site? He used to sell them and stopped. I think because a similar idea was already being used for profit.
post #17 of 40
Thread Starter 
What I would like to know is wheter this thing would be an actual improvement over an existing system, or whether it just sacrifices certain aspects of quality for others.
post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by drminky
If you are after that vinyl sound, go vinyl! I'm not too up on SACD, but on a pure music selection basis, it can't compete with what's out there on vinyl. (nor can it compete on the price you can pick up albums for!!)

You will pay a LOT more to achieve a similar quality of sound from the cd format.
I completely disagree with that statement. I think that on the contrary, it's cheaper to get a good sounding digital source than a good sounding analog source. Look at the Stereophile recommended component list. You won't find a class A turntable for less than $4500. You won't find a class A tone arm for less than $4000 and you won't find a class A cartridge for less than $4000. So, in order to get the cheapest class A analog source, you would have to spend about $12k. Whereas there are plenty of class A digital sources for around $5k.

I understand that you're not looking to spend in the thousands for your source, but I just gave that as an example to illustrate a point. IMO, you won't find a decent turntable/tonearm/cartridge combo for $500 even on the used market. Whereas, I think you can find really good CD and SACD players for that money on the used market.

It all comes down to how picky you are and what you're looking for. Furthermore, new vinyl media goes for as much as SACD media. Personally, I think it's a rip. So, I would suggest either getting a really good sounding CD player or if you're looking for high res, then get an SACD player. I think that's a better investment in the long run for the kind of money you're talking about.
post #19 of 40
Thread Starter 
I agree with you bif, vinyl is not cheap. I am planning on getting a modded toshiba 3960, which would make most people, included myself, satisfied with their digital setup, and that's $200. Most people have recommended me $500 or higher used turntables, which isn't really the entry level price I'm looking for, seeing as I already posted about that on another thread. I am interested in vinyl for the sound, but If I can't get in the door for under $250, I just may look to SACD, or some various redbook tweaks and equipment to meet my needs.

The good part about vinyl is that there are so few albums I listen too that aren't 15+ years of age, that I can play any exceptions on my digital rig.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by bifcake
I completely disagree with that statement. I think that on the contrary, it's cheaper to get a good sounding digital source than a good sounding analog source. Look at the Stereophile recommended component list. You won't find a class A turntable for less than $4500. You won't find a class A tone arm for less than $4000 and you won't find a class A cartridge for less than $4000. So, in order to get the cheapest class A analog source, you would have to spend about $12k. Whereas there are plenty of class A digital sources for around $5k.
Class A means relative to other components of that type, not some an absolute sonic standard, which doesn't exist, so comparing the price of a Class A turntable to a class A CD player is meaningless. The cheapest class A analogue source may be significantly better than the cheapest class A digital source. A $1000 class C analogue source may be better than a $5000 Class A digital source. Or not, but even if you assume the Stereophile list means much of anything much to begin with, you're not reading it correctly.

A $5000 source ought to sound great in any medium, with only subtle improvements to be had with significant further price increases. The question is what delivers better sound for $200 or $500 or $1000 or $2500, etc. And IMO, you can find not just decent, but excellent analogue sources for around $500 used. That's about what I paid for a Merrilled-out AR deck with a RB300 and new Blue Point which dropped many jaw in my living room for several years. And I ended up selling it for even less in order to get it sold.

Does analogue provide better sound for money than digital? Well one can debate that. But it is debatable. What I don't think is worthy of serious debate is your suggestion based on reading the silly Stereophile list that one to spend an extra $8k to analogue sound that's on par with digital.

Another note: you are speculating about the future of SACD. I'm not convinced the format will survive, although I will concede that it is increasingly likely that it will. But you're also speculating that there'll eventually be a decent selection of titles, which there isn't now. There is a ridiculous abundance of used vinyl out there to be had for practically nothing. The SACD catalog is like one millionth the size. And it may not change that fast. I remember the CD format being around for at least 6 years before you could even get any of the Beatles catalogue in that format! You might be right in 2 or 5 or 10 years. But as of today, I'm with DrMinky.
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by zowie
Class A means relative to other components of that type, not some an absolute sonic standard, which doesn't exist, so comparing the price of a Class A turntable to a class A CD player is meaningless. The cheapest class A analogue source may be significantly better than the cheapest class A digital source. A $1000 class C analogue source may be better than a $5000 Class A digital source. Or not, but even if you assume the Stereophile list means much of anything much to begin with, you're not reading it correctly.

A $5000 source ought to sound great in any medium, with only subtle improvements to be had with significant further price increases. The question is what delivers better sound for $200 or $500 or $1000 or $2500, etc. And IMO, you can find not just decent, but excellent analogue sources for around $500 used. That's about what I paid for a Merrilled-out AR deck with a RB300 and new Blue Point which dropped many jaw in my living room for several years. And I ended up selling it for even less in order to get it sold.

Does analogue provide better sound for money than digital? Well one can debate that. But it is debatable. What I don't think is worthy of serious debate is your suggestion based on reading the silly Stereophile list that one to spend an extra $8k to analogue sound that's on par with digital.

Another note: you are speculating about the future of SACD. I'm not convinced the format will survive, although I will concede that it is increasingly likely that it will. But you're also speculating that there'll eventually be a decent selection of titles, which there isn't now. There is a ridiculous abundance of used vinyl out there to be had for practically nothing. The SACD catalog is like one millionth the size. And it may not change that fast. I remember the CD format being around for at least 6 years before you could even get any of the Beatles catalogue in that format! You might be right in 2 or 5 or 10 years. But as of today, I'm with DrMinky.

Hi,

I was using Stereophile to illustrate a point, rather as an absolute reference. However, I stand by my opinion that it costs a LOT more to get the same sound fidelity out of analog as it does out of digital sources. I include redbook in that statement. I've heard a number of turntables, some of them quite expensive and dollar for dollar, I consistently heard better fidelity coming out of the digital sources at a given price point.

As far as SACD is concerned, I agree that the catalog is currently limited, and if I were in the market for a source, I would probably invest in a redbook CD player, rather than SACD. However, having said that, there is a good chance that the SACD format will survive and if that's the road you want to travel, it may be a fairly safe one. Besides, redbook CDs are still playable by the SACD players.
post #22 of 40
Using a triode valve output stage, the Unison Research Unico CDP is a very vinyl-like CDP. Reviews have said (and I would agree):

"Comes scarily close to resembling a decent Moving Coil, playing mint vinyl, through a tube phono stage."

Here's a picture of mine:




The sound is expansive, the timing is immaculate, bass is deep, treble shimmers....
post #23 of 40
nice system gundam!

how does that project phono box SE sound really?
post #24 of 40
Thanks Marios,

The PhonoBox SE isn't bad at all. For a low-cost phono-stage, it's better than the built-in phono-stages of most integrated amps. Sound is best described as warm. Good detail retreival, good sense of speed/timing so drum work is well tracked and notes start and stop with precision.

I used to have a $900 Marantz CDP (Marantz CD6000 KI Signature) and my $600 turntable/cartridge/phonobox combination sounded better. More musical, more alive. My current Unico CDP ($1700) has now improved upon the sound of the turntable... but it does cost a lot more!
post #25 of 40
A $400 turntable is going to sound more analog than a $2000 SACD player. Stereophile's recommended components list is basically just a list of the components they reviewed before. Very few components that they review DON'T make into the list.

I agree that if you want analog sound, you should go with a turntable, rather than trying to recreate it with digital. You got a lot of good recommendations in your turntable thread, but they were more than you were hoping to spend. Save a little more and go with a turntable.
post #26 of 40
Gundam...nice setup! I bet that sounds great
post #27 of 40
Thanks Proglife. Sound better than it looks!

Makes music far too enjoyable (for my neighbours to bear).

The CDP and amp have had great reviews in all the UK hifi press. Not sure how it's been received in the States apart from this review (for the amp):

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/u...rch/unico.html

Lovely pictures too. There's a modded version of the amp available for a $1000 dollars more...
post #28 of 40
I disagree with the price-point though.

Yes, I do agree with the fact that vinyl is the way to go, but I disagree with how much he's paying.

You know, I personally think that nothing beats the high end of 30 years ago. He should buy a mint-condition TT from eBay or something - from a manufacturer like Micro-Seiki. My TT, for example, goes for over 500 dollars on eBay, and it's a Micro-Seiki MB-15. It sounds better than the newer TTs that are out today, in my opinion.

You'll also get a much better value for your money. That is, of course, if you can find a good and working one.

Just my $0.02 ..
post #29 of 40
Nice Gundam, I got one of those unicos..what tubes you got in there? Stock? NOS?

I got mine s/h with a nice selection of vintage tubes bundled with it
If you haven't rolled yet, I can tell you it make a HUGE difference to the sound.

It came with some radiotechniques, great treble, but almost despaired at the lack of bass. Then put some siemens in there and haven't looked back! So happy, I haven't even bothered trying the 1950s mullards yet!

I didn't end up going the unico cd, tho. Went for a s/h mint trivista dac which i got for a better price. Way to go tho, innit? - tubed source and tubed pre makes mighty fine music..

(..without the pain of power amp re-tubing all the time!!)



..what's that turntable there, and how do you personally feel it compares to the unico cdp on fidelity, musicality, etc?
post #30 of 40
I'm still using the stock tubes but I've heard that Mullards are the way to go!

Tubes are great aren't they? Really 'opens up' the music.

The turntable I have there is a low-end ProJect. An Xpression, it costs £210 ($380 USD) with a basic Ortofon OM10 moving magnet cartridge, but I upgraded to an Ortofon MC15FL for £150 ($270) moving coil (better pace, more detail).

I bought the turntable before I had the Unico. At that time I had a $900 Marantz CDP (CD6000 OSE KI Signature) and the turntable simply blew that away in terms of just pure listenability. Treble detail sparkled, the soundstage opened-up, and its timing just got my foot tapping in a way that the Marantz never could.

The Unico CDP is even better than the turntable! Leading me to think that my next upgrade will be to a new Rega or Clearaudio. The Unico really does have an analogue sound to it. The soundstage is wide. Treble information is delicate, informative, shimmering, bass is deep and timing cues are handled in a way that most CDP's struggle with... and oh yes the midband is gorgeous! Enveloping and detailed. Its got plenty of grip and presents a huge soundstage. A review that pursuaded me to at least demo the Unico said:

"...comes scarily close to resembling a decent moving coil playing mint vinyl through a tube phono stage..."

The MF Trivista DAC you have is a tasty device....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › That analog sound