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do sennheiser employees use aftermarket cables for their senn phones? - Page 3

post #31 of 66
9/18/04 at 5:30am
As I see it, the problem often is that folks buy a set of HD650s/600s and then start to think about a cable upgrade after reading the remarks here. Unfortunately, many are using sources and/or amps which aren't necessarily up to standard and with such equipment you may well not be able to tell the difference.
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post #32 of 66
9/18/04 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang
that's plenty of information right there.
thanks!
I feel there's some sort of trolling going on here
I'm also wondering way Todd's bothering himself for answering

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodstudio
As I see it, the problem often is that folks buy a set of HD650s/600s and then start to think about a cable upgrade after reading the remarks here. Unfortunately, many are using sources and/or amps which aren't necessarily up to standard and with such equipment you may well not be able to tell the difference.
Not so sure , as cables DO alot of change , the signal that arrives in the drivers is somewhat very different depending on way used to bring it from amp to hp drivers .

If the headphone is very sensible to signal ( that is " close to neutrality " ) the heaedphone will notice the slight change and your ears too .
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post #33 of 66
9/18/04 at 7:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boodi
I feel there's some sort of trolling going on here
1. i'm a contributing member of head-fi.
2. this is MY thread. i didn't ask you to post here or read any of this.
3. if you don't like what i'm saying, put me on ignore because i sure as hell don't want any fingers being pointed at me.

if you read the original title of this thread, my response is completely relevant.
i'm disgusted that i even have to defend myself.
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post #34 of 66
9/18/04 at 8:38am
Only because I can't help myself!

"i've heard both v6s and v900s extensively, and my opinion is that v6s really suck. most people on this board disagree with me though. so take that for what it's worth. most people on this board also think that audio cables make a difference in sound, which is absolute horse doo doo. "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by sugarkang : 09-06-2004 at 09:43 AM.
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post #35 of 66
9/18/04 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang
1. i'm a contributing member of head-fi.
2. this is MY thread. i didn't ask you to post here or read any of this.
3. if you don't like what i'm saying, put me on ignore because i sure as hell don't want any fingers being pointed at me.

if you read the original title of this thread, my response is completely relevant.
i'm disgusted that i even have to defend myself.
Sugarkang, relax! Boodi is one of the nice guys here and wasn't trying to be a PITA, I'm sure.

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post #36 of 66
9/18/04 at 8:55am
«Do sennheiser employees use aftermarket cables for their senn phones?»

What's so terribly important with what «Sennheiser employees» think about replacement cables? Do you really think they have a more objective approach to the matter or even better ears -- just because they work for the company?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang
That's plenty of information right there. Thanks!
LOL. What a bunch of useful information!

Seriously -- I understand the skepticism around cable sound with people who haven't experienced it. But why don't they show the same rigorosity with their claim for systematic listening tests with other hi-fi components such as amps and headphones? I can tell you why: because of their bias. For whatever reason they have the idea that cables can't have an impact on the sound, while all other components can.

The sonic differences among the available HD6xx replacement cables are not subtle. I own three of them -- beside the stock cable -- and have my clear preferences. The differences are not imagined. Partly they have the dimension of the differences between HD 600 and HD 650. Would anyone call for blind tests in the case of a pretended sonic difference between these two headphones?

If such sonic differences shouldn't be confirmed in blind tests, I'd heavily doubt the validity of such tests.

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post #37 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
and looks like i was right.

i originally started this thread because i started having doubts about my original stance because so many head-fiers seem to swear by cable upgrades. being that i have an hd650 coming, this issue has been a very emotional one for me.

i wanted to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that cables wouldn't make a difference. that would mean blind A/B ing, and since no one here has done that, the fact that a sennheiser employee, who owns all kinds of senn models, does not use any aftermarket cables is a clear endorser of NOT upgrading cables. that man's opinion is worth a hundred times more than any head-fiers opinion (to me, maybe not you).

so now, i'm back to my original thinking that cables don't matter.

if cables matter to you, or anyone else for that matter, that's fine.
you are free to use your money and i'm not going to persuade you to do otherwise. i wanted an answer FOR ME. to figure out if i would be wasting MY money. i got my answer, and that was the purpose of this thread.

END.
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post #38 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang
1. i'm a contributing member of head-fi.
2. this is MY thread. i didn't ask you to post here or read any of this.
3. if you don't like what i'm saying, put me on ignore because i sure as hell don't want any fingers being pointed at me.

if you read the original title of this thread, my response is completely relevant.
i'm disgusted that i even have to defend myself.
..caugh caugh ..



so...
-------------------
Dear sugarkang

1.I'm happy you did contribute to head-fi . You should well know this is a good point for a member , but it's also irrilevant for anyone who wants to open threads here. Opening a serious thread ( as yours , because it is sure a serious one as it's been several times debated around here ) and therefore also expecting some posts , as i hope it works this way also for you , is *free* . You don't have any privilege on posting threads becuase you are a contributing member . Anyone here is free to post , open threads , sometimes people also feel free to help / advice / partecipate on threads , even if the thread is yours.. and maybe intimate ( I sure didn't think your thread was an intimate contributing member party )
I would have never put out that I'm a contributing member to justify anything , being this posting threads , asking things , or anything else

2. ..this is YOUR thread and you didn't ask me to post.. this really is a great point ..it should need no comments at all ..

Anyway ..I posted in your thread becuase I really thought my posts could be useful to you and others interested . Also I thought it would be welcome for a person that was searching informations on the effectivness of replacing the cable on the senns , becuase I've had some experience in this and I felt i could say something about. Moreover I still like the debate around cables becuase I'm steppipng trough different cables to find how my audio rig can bebetter "costumized".
So.. these are the full motivations why i posted on your thread , i hope this is clear . I'm not going to post more on your thread , no problem .

3. I 'm not adding you to my ignore list as i don't have motivations to do

Take my last post as a simple free advice "be aware of unwanted automatic trolling "

..for all reading : I really don't have any hates towards troll habits here , it's more of a given and human fact for me
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post #39 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:08am
Sugarkang, I'm sorry mate but I find your posts obnoxious, silly and wholeheartedly meaningless.

If our opinions don't count to you, then why bother asking or debating the point at all. For you to ask for opinions and then throw them back in our faces when we give them to you is plain bloody rude, in any part of the world. Better to say nothing if that's all you have in your bag.....

(read this post in a stern, disappointed tone for best result)
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post #40 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:17am
My final suggestion would be to order a couple of cables, listen to them yourself and if they don't do anything to your system then return them. At the end of the day this is your system we're talking about, not mine, not Boodi's and not your mate in the audio shop's...yours!
So try some cables yourself...
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post #41 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodstudio
Sugarkang, I'm sorry mate but I find your posts obnoxious, silly and wholeheartedly meaningless.
wtf is up with the personal attack?
did i ever attack any one of you?
first i get accused of trolling and then this BS.

the power of suggestion/placebo is very strong.
why do you think double blind tests are made in the first place?

as i said before, if you think your aftermarket cables make a difference to you, that's fine. am i trying to persuade anyone from not buying cardas/zu/sd cables?

it's like an mp3/cd debate. can you hear the difference? maybe you can. i'm not going to doubt it. only thing is, i can't. and if i can't, then what i can't hear is not important to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipodstudio
For you to ask for opinions and then throw them back in our faces when we give them to you is plain bloody rude, in any part of the world. Better to say nothing if that's all you have in your bag.....
1. i never asked for anyone's opinions that are unrelated to this thread. i got a LOT of them however.
2. i asked if a sennheiser employee uses aftermarket cables. i got the answer. at least one sennheiser employee doesn't.
3. i asked if blind A/B testing has been done. i received a bunch of opinions, but not a single "yes" response to my question.

and for the record, i did not throw any opinions back in any faces.
if anything, i have been the one that has been attacked.
i'd appreciate it if that stopped.
i'd like to think that i can have an opinion different from anyone else's as long as i don't attack them. and i have not attacked anyone.
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post #42 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang
And looks like I was right.
Quote:
I wanted to be sure beyond a reasonable doubt that cables wouldn't make a difference...
Please read this statement of yours again yourself! So you wanted to get your bias confirmed by other Head-Fi members?

Quote:
...that would mean blind A/B ing...
...And does your above shown attitude really match with this claim for objectiveness and scientificalness?

Quote:
...and since no one here has done that, the fact that a sennheiser employee, who owns all kinds of senn models, does not use any aftermarket cables is a clear endorser of NOT upgrading cables. That man's opinion is worth a hundred times more than any head-fiers opinion (to me, maybe not you).
Thank you for your esteem! And how has this Sennheiser employee you even don't know yourself -- having just a very raw picture of him from a few words -- deserved your confidence, seen from a rational perspective you seem to otherwise prefer? Is he in a position to be particularly objective and unbiased? As to having owned almost (!) all Sennheiser models: There are many Head-Fiers which are in a similar situation and have even broader experience with headphones than just with Sennheisers. Please elaborate your statement with rational arguments!

Quote:
So now, i'm back to my original thinking that cables don't matter. ...I got my answer, and that was the purpose of this thread.
That's what your intention was from the beginning, right? Because I can't believe it takes just that one sentence about one Sennheiser employee who's not happy about the rush on replacement cables (not even that he has claimed they do nothing!) to convince you...

Quote:
I originally started this thread because i started having doubts about my original stance because so many head-fiers seem to swear by cable upgrades. being that i have an hd650 coming, this issue has been a very emotional one for me.
Congrats on a really great headphone -- which could be even greater without self-decreed closemindedness. I feel sorry for you... seriously!

Quote:
Wtf is up with the personal attack? Did i ever attack any one of you?
Yes, you did: you've put us Head-Fi people down: «That man's opinion is worth a hundred times more than any head-fiers opinion.»

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post #43 of 66
9/18/04 at 9:57am
YGPM...
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post #44 of 66
9/18/04 at 10:14am
Thread Starter 
this is going to be my last post on this matter.

1. i'm sorry i pissed some of you off.
2. i have my biases. definitely.
3. no it doesn't just take one sennheiser employee to make my mind up. ideally, i'd like to know what all of them use.
4. it's not that hard to do a blind A/B test.

a lot of my opinions on cables comes from here:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...ples/index.php

they asked some of the manufacturers to submit cables for testing.
since i am just a layman, a lot of their testing is over my head.
there's a lot of science and technical vocabulary that i am just unfamilar with.
it is interesting to note that ZU cables declined to be part of their test.

in closing, i'm sorry that some of you took offense.
i haven't changed my opinion, but i can see how you could be offended in the way i presented it.

i'd like to take back some of the things i said.
i didn't want to say that head-fier opinions were not important.
otherwise, why would i spend so much time here and contribute to keep it alive?
what i DID want to say is that i trust opinions in the following order:
1. blind A/Bing
2. people without an interest in proclaiming a certain piece of gear is better, other than actual performance.
3. people who have bought gear, who are excited about hearing the differences.



it has been pointed out to me that one of my comments was offensive, and i think that it was read the wrong way by some of you.

by saying that i wanted to know if i was wasting MY money, didn't mean that everyone else was wasting their money by buying cables.
it should have read instead:

i want to know if buying cables would be an audible performance benefit for ME, regardless of what anyone else thinks.
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post #45 of 66
9/18/04 at 10:30am
Your question:

"do sennheiser employees use aftermarket cables for their senn phones?"

My answer:

"Yes"

I recall reading about one of them, so that cancels out your other Sennheiser staff opinion. Mind you he was using very expensive source equipment and wanted to prove the HD650s were good so tried better cables and noted his own preference. Will try and find the article again (if anyone else read it please confirm) - I read it before I bought my phones (I have HD 590, 600 & 650).

I replaced the cables on the HD590 & 600 as they were too flimsy for my liking.

I made the 590 replacement, bought an Oehlbach cable for the 600. When I then got the 650s I noticed it was 'sturdier' cable than the standard 600 cable. I presume Sennheiser upgraded the cable on the 650 for good reasons.

The 650s now have the Oehlbach, 600s the standard cable from the 650s.

My view on this is that Sennhesier put the best cable for the price not the best cable for the headphones. They have to set a price they believe the phones should sell for and manufacture accordingly.
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