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do sennheiser employees use aftermarket cables for their senn phones?

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
i'm sure this debate has been had before.
but why would sennheiser deliberately cripple the sound of their HD650 with a crap cable?

am i saying that there's no difference in aftermarket cables? no...
but has ANYONE done any blind A/Bing?
there must be a bunch of hd650 owners.
why don't yall get together at a meet and blind test?
or if this has been done, i'd like to see the results.
post #2 of 66
use the search button in the cables forum there sholud be plenty of threads about A/B tests on sennheiser repl. cable . Replacing the cable definitely changes the sound of the headphones , turning it more open , more upfront /more less detailed , depending on materials, on shielding and so on ..
The senn cable isn't a crap one , I do use the stock cable . Probably it's not on par with others for construction/ materials used .
Senn lab would have probably priced the hd650 over 500$ otherway if they ever builded an higher std. ( maybe manifactured ) stock cable , they just didnt' .

+ i really don't think the stock cable is crap , it's more a matter of taste / associated gears .
post #3 of 66
Gotta admit I'd love to see someone do a scientifically valid double blind test (using any kind of controls audiophiles would like to put into place) to see if statistically significant number of people could actually pick out identical cans with different cables, much less determine which sounded "better".
post #4 of 66
Don't some people prefer the stock cables? I've read that the aftermarket cables can be TOO revealing
post #5 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesDaddy
Gotta admit I'd love to see someone do a scientifically valid double blind test (using any kind of controls audiophiles would like to put into place) to see if statistically significant number of people could actually pick out identical cans with different cables, much less determine which sounded "better".
I doubt they could tell the difference without the power of suggestion or being able to see what cable was attached to the headphones. It's like if someone changed the new tires on your car overnight (without your knowledge) to another brand of new tires and you drove to work the next morning, like you'd notice it.
post #6 of 66
To the question in the title, James Serdechny who makes the equinox cable was a sennheiser employee and I think it is safe to say that he uses an aftermarket cable.
post #7 of 66
Thread Starter 
if he makes the equinox cable, then that doesn't count.
he has a fiduciary interest in it.

i'm talking about the original equipment makers that actually perceive a difference in headphone cables. the one that don't receive any gains, other than better sound.
post #8 of 66
I believe wmcmanus was working on an aftermarket cable shootout. I am guessing that Hurricane Ivan has put a hold on the shootout. I think he has collected most if not all of the aftermarket cables for senn's.
post #9 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle
I doubt they could tell the difference without the power of suggestion or being able to see what cable was attached to the headphones.
I doubt you're right. Frankly, I used to think virtually all claims regarding cables were complete baloney, until I was forced to try an aftermarket cable for my HD-600's due to a problem with the stock cable. The difference was obvious. When one has listened to the same track on a CD for about 100 times, you get to know every note and subtlety of the recording, and when something is changed in one's system, and then you listen to that song again, it is pretty easy to tell that it sounds different. But again, this has been debated previously, ad infinitum. I am still skeptical of various cable-related claims, but I have to admit that I am now a believer to some extent, and much more open-minded that I was previously.
post #10 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS
But again, this has been debated previously, ad infinitum.
not in a blind test it hasn't. yes the debates have been done many times, but a debate is useless without empirical findings.

i'm not saying that your claim to better fidelity through cables is false.
how could i claim that when i've never heard aftermarket cables? but i'd like to know what the truth is.

but wouldn't it be NICE if we did some blind testing, with several users to know for sure. it really isn't hard.
you'd need two models of the same headphones. one with stock cable, one with aftermarket cable.

i'd like to know firstly, if a listener could even discern a difference in the first place. secondly, to know if the listener could actually pick the more expensive one as the better one.
post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarkang
not in a blind test it hasn't. yes the debates have been done many times, but a debate is useless without empirical findings.

i'm not saying that your claim to better fidelity through cables is false.
how could i claim that when i've never heard aftermarket cables? but i'd like to know what the truth is.

but wouldn't it be NICE if we did some blind testing, with several users to know for sure. it really isn't hard.
you'd need two models of the same headphones. one with stock cable, one with aftermarket cable.

i'd like to know firstly, if a listener could even discern a difference in the first place. secondly, to know if the listener could actually pick the more expensive one as the better one.
I've previously been a believer in blind testing. But in auditioning various cables, headphones, and CD players the past few months, I've noticed that quite often I have difficulty distinguishing between two different headphone cables, for example, even when I know they are being switched, if I only listen for a few seconds or minutes. Also, sometimes the difference is more apparent on certain CD's, or certain songs, than others. If I listen to my system set up a certain way for a few days or weeks, however, and then I make the switch, I will be able to tell the difference clearly, but again it may take me several songs to confirm this, and the difference may not be significant on every song. I find myself hearing things I did not hear before, or missing something that I previously heard (if the switch is back to the less detailed cable for example).

Perhaps others don't suffer from this "disability," but I think I might fail a blind test where the switching is going back and forth. Tonight for example I switched out a very inexpensive, basic interconnect that I had been listening to for two weeks and replaced it with one of Homegrown Audio's Silver Lace interconnects. I didn't really much a difference on the first CD I played, but clearly heard a significant difference on the high end on the next CD by a different artist. Certain elements of the recording that I had been missing were revealed and it was quite pleasing. On the next CD, while I could perceive some difference, it was less apparent.

People have always said that blind tests have their limitations, and have always believed that this was complete kaka. Now, I'm beginning to understand some of the problems, and why the debate goes on. Frankly, to my mind, blind testing has the tremendous force of logic behind it, and as an attorney, I find that very appealing. But once you hear a difference, it's pretty hard to convince yourself logically that you didn't hear it. You did.

As to whether the more expensive cable is the better one, that is a different isssue entirely. Sometimes in a given system a lesser expensive cable, CD player, etc., may sound much better than one that is much more expensive. That's also part of what makes this hobby fun - finding out what works together, and not spending a fortune to do it.
post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS

As to whether the more expensive cable is the better one, that is a different isssue entirely. Sometimes in a given system a lesser expensive cable, CD player, etc., may sound much better than one that is much more expensive. That's also part of what makes this hobby fun - finding out what works together, and not spending a fortune to do it.
Well I think like that too but it seems like not everyone is looking for a cost-effective system! Regarding the cables, I think I've made up my mind to purchase the relatively cheap $55 Ohelbach cable for my HD600 and see if I notice the difference. I'm still new to headphones and associated accessories but I'm quite sure I don't have Golden Ears. A buffered Cmoy running on a line-out seemed to have only a minor difference from a headphone out on my portable CD player.
post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Bag
I think I've made up my mind to purchase the relatively cheap $55 Ohelbach cable for my HD600 and see if I notice the difference.
Only here will you hear a $55 cable for headphones being called cheap... most people don't spend that on headphone!
post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by commando
Only here will you hear a $55 cable for headphones being called cheap... most people don't spend that on headphone!
lol... yes but notice I used the phrase: 'relatively cheap'... relative to the crazy Zu & Cardas!
post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilson
Don't some people prefer the stock cables? I've read that the aftermarket cables can be TOO revealing
yes , they can .
Example is the Zu Cable : comparing the ZU (from whatever source ) and the stock cable ( linked to the same source ) is really like having two different set of cans for me.
The Zu can make your cans sound as crap , becuase it gives the openest sound you can have on hd650 , so it reveals quite any flaw from the source/gear setup .
The Zu make the hd650 VERY upfront , while the stock keep the hd650 veiled in comparison .
The Zu is not only overkill for any low/mid budget gear , it can be a wrong step in upgrading the system .

-------------------------------
It seems there's been a "repl. cable tour" lastly here , many had occasion to receive many (if not all) the sennheiser aftermarket cables for .
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