Newbie help: Audeze Sine vs Meze 99 Classics vs V-Moda XS/M-80/100 vs Hifiman HE400
Jan 23, 2017 at 6:37 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 44

Abbizle

New Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Posts
21
Likes
0
Hi all, firstly I'd like to commend this forum and members for the extensive and well informed information you all provide. I've been reading lots recently to try to get an idea of my first set of decent headphones.

A bit about myself. I like the finer things in life and am not averse to audiophile equipment as I have a decent HT setup with Paradigm Signature Reference S8, C3, ADP3, Sub1 with Halcro MC50 powering them through an Anthem D2V processor. All connected with XLR cables and some expensive speaker cables.

With this background, fast forward I found myself listening to a lot of music and watching Netflix on my tablet in bed with just a pair of cheap in ear headphones. I came across some open box Sony MDR-100AAPs for £50 from my local AV shop. On a whim, and more so because I can't resist a bargain, I though let's see if they make a difference to my night time viewing/listening.

A week later and wow, what a difference! However, my ears being sensitive and used to my Audiophile rig in the lounge, straight away I felt, I'm missing a slight detail in the treble, mids were a bit recessed and not clear enough for me, whilst the bass was tight, but wasn't going deep enough and lacked some punch.

Now I realise that if I want some decent sound I'll have to dig into my pocket somewhat. However not too much as it's just for bed time :D

Basically I'm hooked but need something better than the Sony MDR-100AAPs. I hope the type of sound signature I want has been described above. But to add to that. I tried out a few headphones to see what's what and if I can find what I'm looking for and this is what I felt. All are over ears and closed back, as that's what I'm after:

Momentum 2 - Nice but boring sound.
Oppo PM3 - much cleaner, more detailed, but again slightly boring.
B&W P5 - Mids were great, that's about it.
Audiotechnica M50x - Very clear, analytical and too sparkly and where's the bass.

I still liked the sound signature of the Sony but wanted the clearer mid and treble quality of the above price range (£200-300 give or take). I'm looking for a well balanced sound with good detail across the whole frequency range. A slight tinge of warmth, with clear mids that don't take a back seat. Deep yet tight bass and with lots of detailed treble, but not sparkly or fatiguing. Smooth and natural with the widest soundstage possible........Sounds like the holy grail, right lol :)

So this is where my fellow Head-fiers will hopefully be able to help. I have narrowed down to the following headphones, but can't listen to them as they aren't available locally.

Audeze Sine
Meze 99 Classics
V-Moda XS/M-80/100
Hifiman HE400s
Oppo PM3 (I know, I know, but they've had so many good reviews lol)

Maybe there are others I need to consider like Beyerdynamics. Please could anyone with these headphones or experience help me pin down the best ones suited to my taste. Oh, also I'll be using an Audiophile at Dragonfly Black DAC with them as well.

I need closure on this in a few days time as my return policy on the Sony MDR-100aap will run out. I want to give them back and get something better. Otherwise I'll just have to settle for them at £50 and always be letting wanting lol

Thanks in advance for all your input guys. :xf_eek:
 
Jan 23, 2017 at 8:05 PM Post #2 of 44
I also find the PM-3 a tad on the, I don't know, laid back side I guess I'd say. The MEZE ear cup size is a little bit small for me, personally, as well. I like the M100 but it is a bit of a basshead can and I am not a basshead myself. The 400S is outstanding in almost every way but has the feature of having the sub bass roll off a fair bit. It might or might not have adequate sub bass for you (it is adequate for me). I haven't heard the Sine so I can't comment on it. You might add the HE400i to your list--it has a bit more oomph than the 400S.
 
Jan 23, 2017 at 9:10 PM Post #3 of 44
The 99 classics sound like they would fit you well. They just got updated earpads that are larger, so most people dont have any issues with fit. Check out the innerfidelity review of them for a better description than I could ever give.
 
Jan 23, 2017 at 9:24 PM Post #4 of 44
I have the M-80s and I do like them. For your purposes, I think the sound would be something you may be happy with. I have never heard the M100s myself but I hear they are more bass-biased, while the M80s still are a but north of neutral but not as much so as the 100s, XS, or the LPs. My only complaint is that they are a but clamp-y and get uncomfortable after a while.  Not terrible but not as comfy as some others.
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 6:26 AM Post #5 of 44
Thanks guys. Much appreciated.

Looks like I'm in the right ball park of headphones.

We didnt really cover comfort. Which is a big one for me as cause I am not used to things clamping around my head, I liked the lightness of the Sony MDR-100aap. Which are 220grams I think. So thought we'd stay within this area of weight. 200-300g.

Which leaves clamp force. The Meze seem to have a unique but clampy system. Whilst the V-Moda seems to be a bit lighter with the clamping, but still there. Not sure what the HE400's are like.

Can you bend these headphones backwards to increase head area and decrease clamping. Or will they be prone to break?

Serman005 - If like Pla4yer says, the new Meze 99s have had their cup size increased, would you recommend them over the others. Also would you say the HE400s can fill the sub bass gap being left out by the HE400i.

Can anyone comment on the Audeze Sine. We've had good info on the others, but not the Sine.

In regards to V Moda's, I read the XS gives you more than the M-80's but in a more compact, portable and lighter package. If true, then seems to tick all the boxes. But surely smaller cups will produce less bass?

Thanks again for your input.
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 6:55 AM Post #6 of 44
HE 400s - Warm and wonderfully clear sound. somewhat midforward signature. but lacking the last bit of sparkle and sub bass extension.
Meze 99 classics - Warm and a bit bassy signature with good clarity.
Vmoda XS -  Warm, forward mids and a bit bassy. 
Vmoda M100 - Bassy V shaped signature.
 
Fidelity (high to low) - HE 400s >>> Meze 99 classics >> Vmoda M100 > Vmoda XS.
 
Build quality - Meze 99 classics > Vmoda M100 > Vmoda XS > HE 400s.
 
Comfort - Vmoda XS > Meze 99 classics > Vmoda M100 > HE 400s.
 
Portability - Vmoda XS > Vmoda M100 > Meze 99 classics > HE 400s.
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 7:12 AM Post #7 of 44
The 99 classics are incredibly light, but they do have a bit of force when clamping. I find that this causes no discomfort for even extended periods though, but ymmv.
However, I don't believe you can bend the frame because of the type of metal used (spring steel if I'm not mistaken), so keep that in mind.
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 7:39 AM Post #8 of 44
Thanks all. Looks like we are slowly getting there. Like X Factor, we shall now knock out a few headphones and take it right down to the last three, then concentrate on the last two in detail. Which should yield the best headphones for me :)
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 7:51 AM Post #9 of 44
Therefore with no further wait the contestants are:

Hifiman HE-400s
Meze 99 Classic
V-Moda XS

All three are well within the type/sound I'm looking for; slightly warm and natural with deep, tight bass and mids that are not recessed with detailed yet non fatiguing treble.

I'm thinking the V-Moda will be just right in terms of bass, not too boomy like big brother M100. But how does it compare to the other two sonically as they are similar priced, yet this one is almost half their price

The Meze seems to have the best balance of the three with a little bit looser bass, allowing for that touch more rumble and punch, but not too much to be bass head headphones. What is the progression and separation of mid-bass to bass to sub bass like? Any muddyness or distortion at high volumes? Is it tight enough and the reviews nitpicking in regards to looseness of the bass?

HE400s I do not have much info on, so seems like the frequency range is the best of the 3, but the bass side of things looks like it is tighter but not as deep as the other two. Sub bass lacking somewhat? Can anyone confirm this. Does it go deep enough and distortion free for everyday use?
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 8:11 AM Post #10 of 44
Also, would the Magnetic Planar tech in the HE400s produce better sound then the other Dynamic headphones? The other planar's I listened to seemed to lack a little bit of bass.

By the way, I'm not a bass head, but do like some meat to my music. And it seems this is the area where the most differences in headphone comparison turns up
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 9:16 AM Post #11 of 44
"I'm thinking the V-Moda will be just right in terms of bass, not too boomy like big brother M100. But how does it compare to the other two sonically as they are similar priced, yet this one is almost half their price"
 
HE 400s is in another league. Comes under the best mid fi headphones along with the HD 650s, DT series, and K7 series.
Meze and Vmodas are somewhat in the same league. Meze has a very smooth and natural tonality whereas the Vmoda M100 is somewhat aggressive sounding with too much bass and treble . Vmoda XS is also warm and lush but you might find it boring as you found the momentums boring.
 
 
"The Meze seems to have the best balance of the three with a little bit looser bass, allowing for that touch more rumble and punch, but not too much to be bass head headphones. What is the progression and separation of mid-bass to bass to sub bass like? Any muddyness or distortion at high volumes? Is it tight enough and the reviews nitpicking in regards to looseness of the bass?"
 
Mezes have somewhat enhanced mid bass. Some people might find it bass heavy. I did because I prefer the bass to be neutral or just a tiny bit emphasized, not more than that. Also, Meze's bass does distort a lil, but should not bother most people. 
 
 
"HE400s I do not have much info on, so seems like the frequency range is the best of the 3, but the bass side of things looks like it is tighter but not as deep as the other two. Sub bass lacking somewhat? Can anyone confirm this. Does it go deep enough and distortion free for everyday use?"
 
I think the HE 400s might not have much bass for your taste. The bass extension is decent, but wont give much sub bass extension. The bass is detailed and fast though. The focus is on the midbass. I found them somewhat neutral sounding. The tonality is very addictive though, specially the mids. They sound almost natural with a slight coloration that gives the sound a unique euphony. 
 
Lastly, what you are asking costs way more than your budget. 
Also, I would advice you to demo these headphones first. You found the momentums boring which are known for their smooth, warm and non fatiguing sound. The HE 400s sound somewhat like that with tighter, faster and better textured bass, lush and  far clearer sounding mids and smooth treble with better extension.
The mezes also somewhat fall in this category below the HE 400s. So are the XSs below the mezes. All these cans share the same smooth, warm and non fatiguing sound that you might find boring. 
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 9:46 AM Post #12 of 44
Thank you for your input Music freak.

I get what you are saying about me finding the momentums a tad boring compared to the 100aap, I think that was because the Sony's seemed to have a little bit more emphasis on bass, which I seemed to like. Therefore I am leaning towards the Meze and VModa XS, similar to the momentum in clarity, detail and smoothness, but a touch more bass and body than the momentums. Which is probably what made me gravitate towards the Sony 100aap's.

Would you say this is a fair conclusion? Would you say the 99 & XS are closer to the 100aap or M2 sound signature?

In regards to pricing. This is how much I can get these cans for brand new here in the UK -

Hifiman HE-400i = £329
Hifiman HE-400s = £239
Meze 99 Classic = £249
V-Moda XS = £110

So I'm guessing the XS is out of the running, as similar sound signature as Meze, but not as good in the mids and trebles as the others.

The HE-400i is better and clearer than its own sibling and Meze, but lacks the sub bass depth I want and is £100 more than the other two.

Therefore looks like it's down to the finalists:

Hifiman HE-400s = £239
Meze 99 Classic = £249

Therefore, which are better in your opinions Head-fiers.

We are almost there to which cans I will be buying. Quick, need to give the Sony's back and get full refund lol
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 10:01 AM Post #13 of 44
Thank you for your input Music freak.

I get what you are saying about me finding the momentums a tad boring compared to the 100aap, I think that was because the Sony's seemed to have a little bit more emphasis on bass, which I seemed to like. Therefore I am leaning towards the Meze and VModa XS, similar to the momentum in clarity, detail and smoothness, but a touch more bass and body than the momentums. Which is probably what made me gravitate towards the Sony 100aap's.

Would you say this is a fair conclusion? Would you say the 99 & XS are closer to the 100aap or M2 sound signature?

In regards to pricing. This is how much I can get these cans for brand new here in the UK -

Hifiman HE-400i = £329
Hifiman HE-400s = £239
Meze 99 Classic = £249
V-Moda XS = £110

So I'm guessing the XS is out of the running, as similar sound signature as Meze, but not as good in the mids and trebles as the others.

The HE-400i is better and clearer than its own sibling and Meze, but lacks the sub bass depth I want and is £100 more than the other two.

Therefore looks like it's down to the finalists:

Hifiman HE-400s = £239
Meze 99 Classic = £249

Therefore, which are better in your opinions Head-fiers.

We are almost there to which cans I will be buying. Quick, need to give the Sony's back and get full refund lol

I have not heard the HE 400i, but from the reviews, i collect that it got better bass than the HE 400s,It has more extension and impact in the sub bass. It's a planar mag bass. Also, it has sparkly yet non fatiguing treble with forward and smooth mids.. HE 400i's almost fit in your description. Why not consider them? If you can afford them , then they are the best among the other cans. You should get them. 
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM Post #14 of 44
Wow! You are definitely good at narrowing things down! I took a long time before I settled on the Meze, but I guess it's good you know exactly what you want.
My advice would be to get both of you can, but if not, I would look at all aspects of them to decide what I need for sure. Do you need isolation, or is open back preferable? Do you need portable at all, or will these always sit at your desk? Do you have amplification, or will you need to get it, or do you even want it? Then look at the pros and cons of each and make a decision from there.
As far as comparisons go, I haven't heard any of the hifiman headphones mentioned, so I can't help you there.
Don't let anyone else make the decision for you. This is a place for you to gather info so you can make the best decision for yourself. The problem with letting others decide what is better is that all people hear things differently. I personally couldn't listen to the HD598 for 20 minutes without getting a headache because of the lack of sub-bass, but others praise them to no end!
 
Jan 24, 2017 at 11:31 AM Post #15 of 44
Thanks for the advice Pl4y3r. And yes, I know what I'm looking for, after trying a few of the more popular choices.

Tried the M50x and put them straight down. Too analytical with no soul. They maybe reference, but they take the fun out of music. Maybe better for movies though.

M2 were better, but nothing really stood out for me and were lacking sub bass.

The Oppo PM3 was much better and I noticed the rise in quality straight away. Smoother as well. Right up my street, but again needed depth and extension in bass/sub bass......Maybe I needed to try them longer.

Hence why settling down to the 99 and HE400s.

Now I want to discuss what magnetic Planar design has over dynamic. Any input. With these two in mind. Thanks.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top