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Am I the first owner ??? Qualia 010 !!! - Page 9

post #121 of 645
Mastergill,

my friend, if you need a 10k source to do what you are talking about with the 650's, then it is not worth it...i'm sorry, but that is too much money to only begin to bring out an aspect/characteristic in a headphone. if the headphone (in the opinion of edwood) does not image that well until you put a 10k source behind it, then it does not image well period....hardly 2% of head-fi's population can afford such a source. so it is almost pointless to dispute otherwise. at the same time, i think every single headphone on earth will benefit greatly and improve in certain aspects with a 10k source behind it...that's a given. i guess my point is, why would you even make it your arguing point that the only way to get good imaging on the 650's would be to put a 10k source behind it. it just seems as if you're grasping for straws and as i said, all headphones do brilliant things with 10k sources!!! i mean, come on!!! do the 650 more justice by talking about its strengths with the more affordable sources 200-600$.

on the other hand, imo, i think the 650 has great separation and imaging even with sources like the Rega Planet 2000 (the player i own) and other similar sources...even ranging down to lower prices such as 200 +-50$. i can easily place the instruments and the musicians wherever they are on stage when listening to good, live recordings. the 650's are great in this aspect...no problems here!!


and to the person trying to disguise their ridicule for Niks new rig and impressions......
give me a break!!!! if you go back to re-read all of Niks new posts of first impressions with any super high-end headphone he has bought over the years, he has never said each one surpasses the previous. he specifically describes them as being better in their own ways...and not automatically better than all the rest. again, go back and search for all of Niks posts about his aquirements of the newest, top end headphones. you'll discover that there's more to it than what you perceive to be a never ending improvement of headphones based on the higher the price. making such a claim without understanding at all what Nik has said throughout all of this reviews is simply idiotic and proves a certain amount of jealousy on your part. here's the most simplistic way of putting it...if you don't find Niks comments useful in any way, then stay away and don't read them ever again!
post #122 of 645
Zeplin,

What i want to say is the HD650 show no 'limitation' when you seriously upgrade. Too many guys will never try this phone with extreme setup just because it's "only" a $400 phone. The "veil", need of crossfeed...that's big big BS.

Also, sorry to rant from time to time with my Manley and stuff, but what i've got is really too good to be true. So i can be over-enthusiastic, but this is pure genuine customer feedback, i'm not affiliated with Manleylabs in any way.

I have nothing to prove, but when you feel having the best you wanna share, audio and music is more than a passion for me, it's my life. When i read stories about members who spend a lot for their music and are still not happy, i feel sad, because after 22 years in this hobby (with 8 years beeing professionaly involved at various level) i know the road to audio perfection is paved with rip-off, overpriced, shiny stuff to attract the "poor" audiophile.

My signal path is flawless. Trust me. My next upgrade will be something like a solar generator so i can have my own pure AC supply.(no kidding)
post #123 of 645
IMO, the DT880, CD3K, RS-1, W2002, etc would all improve by just the same amount when subjected to the same system. Add the custom cable why don't you. The HD650 is not a technical standout when compared to these others. The O2 would also exceed all of these in technical terms when subjected to the same upgrade.


All due respect to Nik, I cannot in all honesty see the Q010 going way beyond this, but if anyone has the R&D budgets to make dynamic drivers something significantly different, it would be Sony. I'm merely hoping the Q010 doesn't suck when I get them. My purchase is mainly influenced by how comfortable the Q010 looks to be, and also one of curiousity.... And I'll be in a position to give you a direct comparison of an HD650 vs Q010 in a system that a significantly larger (and therefore more relevant in a Head-Fi sense) percentage of members would be able to realistically afford.
post #124 of 645
Nik,

I am really very curious about the coloration of the 010.

many say the r10 is colored compared to the very neutral stax and sennheiser phones. How does the new sony sound compared to those two? is there still a little coloration or has sony solved that problem as well?
post #125 of 645
Compared to my sony earbuds every other headphone is "colored" too, is there any relevance in this
post #126 of 645
Just with regards to colouration...

I keep on hearing people talking about colouration. But how can you even discuss whether something is coloured without a reference? I mean, how can you tell what the music supposed to sound like?

Strictly speaking, I guess you could take a speaker/headphone system with near-flat frequency response (JM Lab Grand Utopia Be comes to mind) and use that as a reference system. But then everyone's hearing is different, what is flat to a machine may not be flat to me or you. Again, we're back to square one.

Looking at it from another perspective, why does it matter if a headphone has colouration? If the response of the headphones is such that it makes you enjoy the music, then what more can you ask? This whole colouration concept is just so up in the air for me. When someone describes something as bass-centric or upfront or good high-end, at least those comments are useful because everyone has different 'tastes' (*ahem*bassheads*ahem). But to talk about colouration per se is pointless.

Wow, I'm WAY off topic.....now WHERE ARE THE 010s?!?
post #127 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent&Bent
Compared to my sony earbuds every other headphone is "colored" too, is there any relevance in this

strange!
the omega 2 and the orpheus are considdered the most neutral phones.

yeah, your sony earbuds are defenately the most neutral
post #128 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayEarth
Just with regards to colouration...

I keep on hearing people talking about colouration. But how can you even discuss whether something is coloured without a reference? I mean, how can you tell what the music supposed to sound like?

Strictly speaking, I guess you could take a speaker/headphone system with near-flat frequency response (JM Lab Grand Utopia Be comes to mind) and use that as a reference system. But then everyone's hearing is different, what is flat to a machine may not be flat to me or you. Again, we're back to square one.

Looking at it from another perspective, why does it matter if a headphone has colouration? If the response of the headphones is such that it makes you enjoy the music, then what more can you ask? This whole colouration concept is just so up in the air for me. When someone describes something as bass-centric or upfront or good high-end, at least those comments are useful because everyone has different 'tastes' (*ahem*bassheads*ahem). But to talk about colouration per se is pointless.

Wow, I'm WAY off topic.....now WHERE ARE THE 010s?!?
quite simple: i like the stax sound and i also like the sennheiser sound, wich are considdered very neutral. the rs-1 sounds colored to me( compared to stax and sennheiser) and i didn't like it(sold it). if these cans are just as "colored" as the r10 or the rs-1's that phone wouldn't be my cup of tea!

why spend 3 grand for a sound i don't like. i rather hear that issue before i spend that cash and have to sell it on again for a big loss!

so yes, it does make sense to at least have an idea of how this new sony sounds.
post #129 of 645
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

when I mooved from the R10 to the Omega was esactly for the "color" (special in the med-bass) of the R10, I found the Omega perfectly neutral repsect to the R10... now I MUST to tell that the same appened mooving from the Omega to the Qualia. I know that this could be not so simple to understand, but the Omega respect to the Qualia are colored...

So yo can imagine how different is the voice of the Qualia respect to the R10. Remember that the Qualia is the first top level Sony OPEN HEADPHONES !

Best!
Nicola
post #130 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayEarth
Just with regards to colouration...

I keep on hearing people talking about colouration. But how can you even discuss whether something is coloured without a reference? I mean, how can you tell what the music supposed to sound like?

Strictly speaking, I guess you could take a speaker/headphone system with near-flat frequency response (JM Lab Grand Utopia Be comes to mind) and use that as a reference system. But then everyone's hearing is different, what is flat to a machine may not be flat to me or you. Again, we're back to square one.

Looking at it from another perspective, why does it matter if a headphone has colouration? If the response of the headphones is such that it makes you enjoy the music, then what more can you ask? This whole colouration concept is just so up in the air for me. When someone describes something as bass-centric or upfront or good high-end, at least those comments are useful because everyone has different 'tastes' (*ahem*bassheads*ahem). But to talk about colouration per se is pointless.

Wow, I'm WAY off topic.....now WHERE ARE THE 010s?!?
I agree wholeheartedly, every piece of audio equipment adds color and without having been at the actual recording event it's almost impossible to know what it is truly neutral. In fact even if you were at the recording event itself what actually makes it to tape is going to be colored by the mics and other recording equipment so even using that as a reference fully work either.

What we can do is use our own personal reference points from real life experience to come to the conclusion as to whether a piece of gear sounds colored to us personally. For example, I've played many instruments in my life and been exposed to many more by playing in bands and orchestra's. I have my own reference points for how I feel instruments I've heard should sound and this is what I have to go by in order to determine whether I feel a piece of gear is colored or not. I know of another member here who has also played in orchestra's and such but our preferences for what we feel are colored are completely different. It comes down to the fact that everyone hears differently, using the term "colored" without a specific reference point that is relevant to everyone is absolutely useless in my opinion.
post #131 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayEarth
I keep on hearing people talking about colouration. But how can you even discuss whether something is coloured without a reference? I mean, how can you tell what the music supposed to sound like?

Looking at it from another perspective, why does it matter if a headphone has colouration? If the response of the headphones is such that it makes you enjoy the music, then what more can you ask? This whole colouration concept is just so up in the air for me. When someone describes something as bass-centric or upfront or good high-end, at least those comments are useful because everyone has different 'tastes' (*ahem*bassheads*ahem). But to talk about colouration per se is pointless.
I don't agree. To me (the minimizing of) coloration is the essential criterion with headphones, as in audio generally. It can't be objectified though, because everybody has a different perception of coloration or neutrality, resp., given headphones' artificial presentation. But you'll find quite some consensus about certain models such as the top Sennheisers or electrostatics being more neutral and less colored, while cheap earbuds are rated as very colored by most.

So I'm quite a bit interested in the Qualia since I rate Sony's technical/membrane know-how rather high and the 010 is their first open headphone, promising lower coloration than their previous top models...

post #132 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
I don't agree. To me (the minimizing of) coloration is the essential criterion with headphones, as in audio generally. It can't be objectified though, because everybody has a different perception of coloration or neutrality, resp., given headphones' artificial presentation. But you'll find quite some consensus about certain models such as the top Sennheisers or electrostatics being more neutral and less colored, while cheap earbuds are rated as very colored by most.

So I'm quite a bit interested in the Qualia since I rate Sony's technical/membrane know-how rather high and the 010 is their first open headphone, promising lower coloration than their previous top models...

Hehe, but then I also agree with this. Go figure.

By the way congrats Nik and don't let anyone dampen your enthusiasm.
post #133 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by bangraman
IMO, the DT880, CD3K, RS-1, W2002, etc would all improve by just the same amount when subjected to the same system. Add the custom cable why don't you. The HD650 is not a technical standout when compared to these others. The O2 would also exceed all of these in technical terms when subjected to the same upgrade.


All due respect to Nik, I cannot in all honesty see the Q010 going way beyond this, but if anyone has the R&D budgets to make dynamic drivers something significantly different, it would be Sony. I'm merely hoping the Q010 doesn't suck when I get them. My purchase is mainly influenced by how comfortable the Q010 looks to be, and also one of curiousity.... And I'll be in a position to give you a direct comparison of an HD650 vs Q010 in a system that a significantly larger (and therefore more relevant in a Head-Fi sense) percentage of members would be able to realistically afford.
I can only speak on my systems and what has happened as they have been upgraded. The HD600/650 have progressed more and been able to get better every time at a level the DT880, RS1, and the CD3000 have not been able to. As the amps and sources got better ther other phones have been sold off. This is the reason I now only own the HD650. These have just been my findings.
post #134 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ
I don't agree. To me (the minimizing of) coloration is the essential criterion with headphones, as in audio generally. It can't be objectified though, because everybody has a different perception of coloration or neutrality, resp., given headphones' artificial presentation. But you'll find quite some consensus about certain models such as the top Sennheisers or electrostatics being more neutral and less colored, while cheap earbuds are rated as very colored by most.

So I'm quite a bit interested in the Qualia since I rate Sony's technical/membrane know-how rather high and the 010 is their first open headphone, promising lower coloration than their previous top models...

You are most definately right Jazz, and what I really meant to say in my earlier post was, taking a single headphone as a reference is pretty useless, your preference and what stimulates you should be paramount just like the comparison of how close it gets to experiencing something live or at the mixing desk.
All IMO ofcourse.
post #135 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik
Hi all,

when I mooved from the R10 to the Omega was esactly for the "color" (special in the med-bass) of the R10, I found the Omega perfectly neutral repsect to the R10... now I MUST to tell that the same appened mooving from the Omega to the Qualia. I know that this could be not so simple to understand, but the Omega respect to the Qualia are colored...

So yo can imagine how different is the voice of the Qualia respect to the R10. Remember that the Qualia is the first top level Sony OPEN HEADPHONES !

Best!
Nicola
So,

Nik, according to you this might be the "most" neutral phone?
thanks for your reply. In that respect at least the Qualia is much better.
there must be a reason why sony is moving from closed phones to open phones! My guess is to eliminate the coloration of the R10.

If the stax is even colored compared to the new sony, it must be a fantastic piece of equipment.
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