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Where are all of the builders? - Page 4

post #46 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio84 View Post


I did a quick search and saw some circuit diagrams. Do you know if any available PCBs? Any preferred enclosures?

 

No on both accounts. I just use perfboard and whatever case I can find. Any generic Hammond 1455 that fits works perfectly well.

post #47 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodacose View Post

If you post saying you want a 5W tube amp, you'll get a million and one topologies as well as examples of why a simple two-stage single-ended amplifier is a terrible idea (when that's exactly what a beginner should build). 

THIS!

It gets very demoralizing as a new builder to find a project that looks like it has great promise just to research it and find people poo-pooing some aspect of the design. So then it's off in search of the next awesome project, which subsequently is also criticized. I just finished a Headwatt and it is a great little amp, but I almost didn't build it because someone said it wouldn't be any good. I think newbie DIY needs to be about great sound and having fun. If you want the BEST sound, take your $$$$ and buy commercial.
post #48 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan99 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodacose View Post

If you post saying you want a 5W tube amp, you'll get a million and one topologies as well as examples of why a simple two-stage single-ended amplifier is a terrible idea (when that's exactly what a beginner should build). 

THIS!

It gets very demoralizing as a new builder to find a project that looks like it has great promise just to research it and find people poo-pooing some aspect of the design. So then it's off in search of the next awesome project, which subsequently is also criticized. I just finished a Headwatt and it is a great little amp, but I almost didn't build it because someone said it wouldn't be any good. I think newbie DIY needs to be about great sound and having fun. If you want the BEST sound, take your $$$$ and buy commercial.

 

With respect, the BEST sound is still DIY.  You can build things that are simply not commercially viable.  Whether that means they are too cheap to sell or too expensive to sell is your choice as a builder.

 

Certainly, newbie DIY can be satisfied with either solid-state (CMoy) or tube (Starving Student).  I agree that one should not be discouraging anyone attempting to build an accepted design.  However, please realize that many times our recommendations are to start small and simple.  Sometimes comments are an effort to forestall a huge failure at the outset, resulting in a permanent loss of enthusiasm for the hobby.

 

I don't think responsible comments get close to saying the amp "sounds bad," but I guess some people do that.  More likely, the comments might tend toward, "Why are you building a CMoy when for a little more you could have some Schiit?" ;)

post #49 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

I don't think responsible comments get close to saying the amp "sounds bad," but I guess some people do that.  More likely, the comments might tend toward, "Why are you building a CMoy when for a little more you could have some Schiit?" wink.gif

That's essentially what I am talking about. Some feel like there is no point for the newbie to build anything when for the same or less cost they can get measurably "better" performance by pulling up Schiit's website on their phone and getting a new amp delivered 2 days later.

For what I spent on the Headwatt I could have bought a Vali 2 and had change. And in fact I have bought a Vali 2 and it went into my closet a week after I got it. I have zero emotional connection to it. Whereas my ugly duckling Headwatt makes me smile all the time. I've spent more than a Ragnarok building a dozen different P2P and PCB designs, and probably never gotten close to the performance it offers, but I have no desire to go back and do it differently. For a lot of people it's hard to justify building when there are so many different commercial designs filling all kinds of niches.
post #50 of 113
I will say that DIY in general is not necessarily well suited to everyone. Some people though, myself included, want to DIY for the fun, not always the performance. I always prefer DIY, whether I'm building a basement bedroom, custom furniture, or doing car maintenance. I've just seen that online forums are not always the most welcoming places for newbies. I've seen topics derail into obscure debates between brainiacs attempting to prove the cosmic superiority of their pet esoterica, with the OP being excluded from his own topic.
post #51 of 113
Can I buy a commercially made amp? Sure, but you know what? I am an anomaly among most of HeadFi I figure as I've never listened to a commercially built headphone amp. I like to DIY. I'm also an anomaly in that I'm not necessarily a big tweaker. I build as designed adding some bits I think I might like and go with it. If I don't like it I move on to another one after maybe a cap swap or something simple.
post #52 of 113
You know, now that you mention it the only commercial amp I've ever bought was the Vali 2. Hahaha, and I put it away after a week. My first was a Bottlehead SEX 2.0 that I mildly rebuilt and it's been DIY since. I'm happy tweaking amps I've built, but I'm probably an anomaly in that I won't modify my headphones. My HD-800 are bone stock and exactly the way I like them.
post #53 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan99 View Post

That's essentially what I am talking about. Some feel like there is no point for the newbie to build anything when for the same or less cost they can get measurably "better" performance by pulling up Schiit's website on their phone and getting a new amp delivered 2 days later.

For what I spent on the Headwatt I could have bought a Vali 2 and had change. And in fact I have bought a Vali 2 and it went into my closet a week after I got it. I have zero emotional connection to it. Whereas my ugly duckling Headwatt makes me smile all the time. I've spent more than a Ragnarok building a dozen different P2P and PCB designs, and probably never gotten close to the performance it offers, but I have no desire to go back and do it differently. For a lot of people it's hard to justify building when there are so many different commercial designs filling all kinds of niches.

I must disgracefully disagree with your first assertion. In my experience, the community is very supportive of new builders. Of course, there will be a lot of opinions on every design one may choose, but simply saying you're new will have everyone back off and recommend the simple cmoy as a learning exercise.
post #54 of 113
I guess my genuine question then is why does this thread exist if DIY is so encouraged? There is something keeping new builders away, just trying to tease out what that is.
post #55 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan99 View Post

I guess my genuine question then is why does this thread exist if DIY is so encouraged? There is something keeping new builders away, just trying to tease out what that is.

 

Don't take my direct manner of speaking as discouraging but tomb answered that question very well above.

post #56 of 113
Got it, thread closed I guess. How else am I to take your direct manner of speaking than as discouraging? I thought this was an open discussion, but I feel like you are telling me the question was asked and answered, no further contributions necessary.
Edited by 430011 - 1/10/17 at 10:11am
post #57 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan99 View Post

Got it, thread closed I guess. How else am I to take your direct manner of speaking than as discouraging? I thought this was an open discussion, but I feel like you are telling me the question was asked and answered, no further contributions necessary.

 

Sorry, people tell me I tend to sound like a dick online sometimes.

 

I'd be very happy to help you with any build you would like and will take the time to make sure it goes well. I just don't want to reply with a quote from someone else. Read the thread please.

post #58 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan99 View Post

I guess my genuine question then is why does this thread exist if DIY is so encouraged? There is something keeping new builders away, just trying to tease out what that is.

 

With respect, I think Fallen Angel has indicated this thread has the answers.

 

Look ... any individual with an inkling of DIY enters a decision path about whether a product is something he/she should build or purchase.  For those die-hard scratch-builders - probably like yourself and me - they would never buy anything but build, instead.  Then of course, there are those who would never consider building anything.

 

In between, there is an entire group of people who might consider DIY, but make a decision between those two paths (build or buy).  These days, the market and economics are simply not there for the majority of those who might waffle.  DIY requires a heavy initial investment, unless they are blessed with a family who collected tools that got handed down.  Plus, companies in Asia and Schiit in the US build new products for lower price, with more features, more marketing, more advertising than any DIY outlet/builder can manage.  In the face of all of that, the waffling potential builder goes down the "buy" path instead of the "build" one.  Yes, I still believe (and probably you, too) that anything I can build is superior to what I can buy, but that is not an opinion that often rises above the level of the marketing/advertising noise.

 

The result is that there are fewer and fewer DIY-ers.  There is no active discouragement happening against DIY (unless you count the end of group buys around here) - just economic facts.

 

 

P.S. My original list of reasons earlier in this thread detail many historical events that have resulted in dwindling DIY-ers, but they all point to the same thing: economics and a maturing industry.


Edited by tomb - 1/11/17 at 7:53am
post #59 of 113
Thread Starter 
Basically what he said. smily_headphones1.gif We're typically a helpful group and I try to be as encouraging as I could be, but I'm also very curt. Please don't take offense to that. I'm not trying to be rude, it's just the way I am online.
post #60 of 113
As The Godfather's of this forum it is one thing for you to say why people aren't participating. As a newbie myself I'm trying to give my perspective/experience. Economic facts are not the reason I feel discouraged from DIY.
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