Wired Headphones is Dead the future is wireless
Sep 27, 2016 at 6:25 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 54

Denon2010

Formerly known as Denon5220
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No matter how you look at it, people don't like wires the ultimate goal is to one day do away with the wires.
 
With Iphone 7 doing away with the 3.5mm once and for all this will really pave the way and force companies to start focusing on wireless most likely bluetooth 5.0
 
Bluetooth 5.0 will be indistinguishable from wired and if it is not then bluetooth 6 will be we are nearing that point just look at the incredible quality of Bluetooth 4.2 APTX headphones today to see how far it has come.
 
One way of solving the DAC / AMP issue is lower ohms for drivers and well making 3.5mm bluetooth receivers that just sticks into the 3.5mm port on the headphone if they can manage that with QUALITY DAC/AMP and a very powerful next gen battery into a small form factor this is pretty much the death of wires and this needs to happen, Apple has the behemoth's weight to push and make this happen.
 
Our main problem is lithium batteries and its been like this far too long more money is needed into developing next gen batteries. I am confident we are very close to this reality. We are nearing the end of the 3.5mm wired era and I for one can't wait.
 
I would personally prefer the attachable 3.5mm bluetooth recievers that turns any headphone wireless. This will give us freedom to buy any headphone we want and turn it wireless infact there are already solutions in place for this on Amazon they work alright but nothing special they are largely chinese brands. Hopefully with this new push from apple we will see big names in this new market
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 7:06 AM Post #2 of 54
I LOVE wires.
 
Wires mean quality.
Wires mean reliability.
Wires mean fewer power sources.
Wires mean less Electro-Smog and exposure to radiation.
Wires link you with your immersive experience.
Wires can ground you.
Wires are analogue (just like we are).
Wires give us choices.
 
I hope you are 100% wrong.
 
Listening should be a mindful experience and not one that is shoehorned into every moment someone is out and about. Too many people are listening to music while the walk, run, cycle etc and are distracted and prevented from hearing their surroundings. These are the only instances in which wireless might really be useful.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 7:39 AM Post #3 of 54
^ Actually I was a fan of wires until I actually realized just how good bluetooth has become its almost as good as wires now and Bluetooth 5.0 will make it identical to wires.
 
You simply cannot compare I mean the convenience of wireless is mind blowing and the quality is in the verge of wired as we speak in 6 months we won't even have to worry about advantages that wire has when bluetooth 5.0 hits.
 
The only thing I miss is those sexy DAC/AMPS but again the beauty of wireless is truly something to behold. If I am eating and don't want to touch my headphones with my sticky hands when I go to the sink to wash or not having to remove my headphones when I get up to move about or the awesome range especially 5.0 range will be 4 times the distance.
 
The only thing holding back wireless headphones now are the DAC/AMP which must be attached to the actual headphones once we get around this with next gen battery its game over for wired. As it stands the current solution to turn wired into wireless with the receiver gives you about 70% quality of a decent DAC / AMP
 
Imagine if Sennheiser or any of the big companies get serious about building a good receiver with dac/amp? you stick that into the 3.5mm of a low ohm headphone and its a done deal game over for wires. This is really good these days even controllers and mouse and keyboards are largely wireless. The Telephone is wireless HDTV are wireless.
 
Its only headphones left I hope they phase out wires its a inconvenience Especially when traveling etc
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 8:11 AM Post #4 of 54
The trouble with wireless is that you then impose your choices on those around you without even thinking about it.
 
I suffer from electro-sensitivity, or more precisely, I am more sensitive to radio fequencies than most people. I am unable to use WiFi, Bluetooth, and DECT telephones, though I seem OK with cellular telephones.
 
So taking the scenario of a journey on public transport, I'm unlucky in that you sit down next to me with your bluetooth headphones. I then start to get and increasingly bad headache because you are emitting radio waves.
 
What do you say when I explain the pain you are causing me and could you please turn off the bluetooth?
 
You probably laugh and tell me to go jump.
 
I guarantee this is going to become more widespread. There have already been instances in schools with children feel ill when near the schools WiFi points.
 
I'm all for personal choice, so if you want to irradiate yourself please do, however you should not be able to impose your choices on me. Just like with smoking and passive smoke, there are those who constantly use wireless devices and are exposing the people surrounding them.
 
All for your convenience...
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 8:21 AM Post #5 of 54
First time in my life I have ever heard of this problem I have never met a human who had medical problems arising from bluetooth or wifi.
 
So you are saying Bluetooth and WIFI are cancerous etc? LOL I find this hard to believe.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 8:27 AM Post #6 of 54
You won't get much support here on Head-Fi in favour of wireless/bluetooth over wired headphones. Of course the technology has got better over the years but if it's not wired then it will always be inferior for things such as listening to music with fidelity in mind.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 9:49 AM Post #7 of 54
Electromagnetic hypersensitivity (EHS) is a proposed pathological sensitivity to electromagnetic fields in the environment. EHS is not a recognised medical diagnosis, and there is no scientific basis for it.

(wikipedia)
 
I know a lady who thinks that her computer tower gives her migraines. I tried to explain that it might be that her monitor has PWM flicker, and offered to replace it, but she later reported that she'd bought a large pinkish crystalline rock that she now kept on her desk, and as long as she touched it periodically, she felt fine.
 
I know placebo/nocebo are dirty words in audiophile circles, and as a long-time lurker, first-time poster I'm probably jinxing things for myself by using them, but you might be creating this problem for yourself psychosomatically. I know that doesn't help you at all, but it does limit how fair it is to tell other people what technology they can and can't use nearby. Maybe carry a pink crystalline rock in your pocket if it gets really bad.
 
But I object to wireless headphones taking over the market for other, more mundane reasons - like wireless interference. I work in IT and just about everyone I know has experienced 2.4GHz wireless congestion at some point, causing their mobile devices or wireless peripherals to stop working intermittently. Routers now have little built-in congestion avoidance dances that they do when you turn them on, trying to pick one of the 12 subchannels that isn't already crammed full of nearby devices. If you turn on 5 laptops/phones/tablets in a room, there's a good chance one of them will randomly drop off the wifi. If your neighbour does it at the same time, one's guaranteed to. In addition, a whole host of domestic appliances like cordless phones and microwaves kick out the same 2.4GHz interference, and it's only going to get worse as the number of 2.4GHz devices per household goes up.*
 
And you want to add more 2.4GHz devices to your situation, and make 2.4GHz wireless the technology your listening experience depends on?
 
It doesn't strike me as a step forward. I don't need to do yoga or martial arts while I listen to my music, I just sit in a chair. (I'm boring like that.) I can live with a wire if it keeps my headphones out of that deepening quagmire of wireless interference.
 
Also, I like being able to choose and control my own DAC, amp and whatever else. And I like shiny gold cable ends with pretty lettering etched into them. Much more than I like getting out of my chair and moving about. I've honestly never been sat listening to music and suddenly thought, "drat, I wish I could take this experience with me while I go do the laundry." I just do that beforehand, or after (or never). Like subwoofer I don't think music listening is improved my mixing it with other activities.
 
Also, hello forum, first post, etc.
 
*5GHz wireless isn't really helping because routers don't default to it, most laptops still don't support it, smartphones don't default to it and users have to know about it and turn it on.
 
edit - 
Just to clarify in case it seems rude, I am not implying that subwoofer's headache problems are not real, or not a problem. I'm just noting that until there's a scientific basis for suspecting wireless equipment as the actual cause, it is hasty and unfair to others to treat it as such. Please also understand I'm not making light of your problem; even if it is psychosomatic, placebo effects are still effects, i.e. you still experience them, so they still matter. I knowingly took placebo medication for about a year because, for reasons I could not fully untangle, it did actually improve my health. Humans are tricky. So I'm not saying your symptoms don't matter, just that so far there's no reason to blame wireless technology users.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 7:19 PM Post #8 of 54
(wikipedia)

I know a lady who thinks that her computer tower gives her migraines. I tried to explain that it might be that her monitor has PWM flicker, and offered to replace it, but she later reported that she'd bought a large pinkish crystalline rock that she now kept on her desk, and as long as she touched it periodically, she felt fine.

I know placebo/nocebo are dirty words in audiophile circles, and as a long-time lurker, first-time poster I'm probably jinxing things for myself by using them, but you might be creating this problem for yourself psychosomatically. I know that doesn't help you at all, but it does limit how fair it is to tell other people what technology they can and can't use nearby. Maybe carry a pink crystalline rock in your pocket if it gets really bad.

But I object to wireless headphones taking over the market for other, more mundane reasons - like wireless interference. I work in IT and just about everyone I know has experienced 2.4GHz wireless congestion at some point, causing their mobile devices or wireless peripherals to stop working intermittently. Routers now have little built-in congestion avoidance dances that they do when you turn them on, trying to pick one of the 12 subchannels that isn't already crammed full of nearby devices. If you turn on 5 laptops/phones/tablets in a room, there's a good chance one of them will randomly drop off the wifi. If your neighbour does it at the same time, one's guaranteed to. In addition, a whole host of domestic appliances like cordless phones and microwaves kick out the same 2.4GHz interference, and it's only going to get worse as the number of 2.4GHz devices per household goes up.*

And you want to add more 2.4GHz devices to your situation, and make 2.4GHz wireless the technology your listening experience depends on?

It doesn't strike me as a step forward. I don't need to do yoga or martial arts while I listen to my music, I just sit in a chair. (I'm boring like that.) I can live with a wire if it keeps my headphones out of that deepening quagmire of wireless interference.

Also, I like being able to choose and control my own DAC, amp and whatever else. And I like shiny gold cable ends with pretty lettering etched into them. Much more than I like getting out of my chair and moving about. I've honestly never been sat listening to music and suddenly thought, "drat, I wish I could take this experience with me while I go do the laundry." I just do that beforehand, or after (or never). Like subwoofer I don't think music listening is improved my mixing it with other activities.

Also, hello forum, first post, etc.

*5GHz wireless isn't really helping because routers don't default to it, most laptops still don't support it, smartphones don't default to it and users have to know about it and turn it on.

edit - 
Just to clarify in case it seems rude, I am not implying that subwoofer's headache problems are not real, or not a problem. I'm just noting that until there's a scientific basis for suspecting wireless equipment as the actual cause, it is hasty and unfair to others to treat it as such. Please also understand I'm not making light of your problem; even if it is psychosomatic, placebo effects are still effects, i.e. you still experience them, so they still matter. I knowingly took placebo medication for about a year because, for reasons I could not fully untangle, it did actually improve my health. Humans are tricky. So I'm not saying your symptoms don't matter, just that so far there's no reason to blame wireless technology users.


Completely agree with everything you said and I don't find the placebo effect to be a dirty word at all in the world of audio, many "audiophiles" get placebo effects when buying expensive gear to justify their purchase but refuse to do a blind test.

I would love to see a study conducting many test subjects to try a high end wireless headphone such as the new beyerdynamic Tesla wireless or b&w p9 using aptx HD (near lossless) vs wired using flac files for both to see if people can tell a difference between wired and wireless. Only then would I be convinced to a degree to think wireless has gotten somewhere
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 8:25 PM Post #9 of 54
^ I remember I had the Denon D5000 headphones many years ago, I sold it in 1 week time and kept my Sennheiser HD 555 instead. Why you may ask? the difference was like 5% and to actually notice that 5% you had to sit in a dark room with perfect silence and concentrate and focus on what is playing then immediately swap back to the 555 and the after many tries come to the conclusion that the D5000 was a little better.
 
Yeah look I ain't falling for most of this scam I know its mostly audiophiles justifying wasting enormous amounts of money. Lets not forget the moon audio dragon cable scam where they were selling headphone cables for $300 USD and people lied about how it had some kind of magic that made the sound much better. LOL
 
sad thing is it was audiophiles right here who continuously lied about it having better sound when it was in reality just $10 cables and the company selling it managed to scam so many people who actually believed their own lies about how you can burn in the cable when its really their mind playing tricks on them LOL
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 11:24 PM Post #10 of 54
Wired headphones can be wireless - just plug them into a Bluetooth receiver/headphone amp like the Elecom LBT-PAR500AVBK:
 
http://www2.elecom.co.jp/avd/cellphone/headphone/lbt-par500av/
 
This is the way to go for me. I have no interest in buying headphones with integrated Bluetooth anymore than I have an interest in buying speakers with amplifiers in them.
 
Sep 27, 2016 at 11:44 PM Post #11 of 54
  Wired headphones can be wireless - just plug them into a Bluetooth receiver/headphone amp like the Elecom LBT-PAR500AVBK:
 
http://www2.elecom.co.jp/avd/cellphone/headphone/lbt-par500av/
 
This is the way to go for me. I have no interest in buying headphones with integrated Bluetooth anymore than I have an interest in buying speakers with amplifiers in them.


Actually this is exactly what I am looking forward to, I much prefer just the reciever dac amp built into one than buying a whole headphone. This also solves another problem you don't have to throw away an entire headphone in the trash when the battery dies with this device you either replace the battery or just the device.
 
The only complaint I hear is the DAC and AMP aren't as good as dedicated ones using a 12v adapter
 
BUT here is what I cannot seem to understand, WHY on earth are all these chinese no name brands? how come there are no FIIO brands or Beyerdynamic or Sony receivers? I wish someone can answer me this.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 3:31 AM Post #12 of 54
  (wikipedia)
 
I know a lady who thinks that her computer tower gives her migraines. I tried to explain that it might be that her monitor has PWM flicker, and offered to replace it, but she later reported that she'd bought a large pinkish crystalline rock that she now kept on her desk, and as long as she touched it periodically, she felt fine.
 
   
edit - 
Just to clarify in case it seems rude, I am not implying that subwoofer's headache problems are not real, or not a problem. I'm just noting that until there's a scientific basis for suspecting wireless equipment as the actual cause, it is hasty and unfair to others to treat it as such. Please also understand I'm not making light of your problem; even if it is psychosomatic, placebo effects are still effects, i.e. you still experience them, so they still matter. I knowingly took placebo medication for about a year because, for reasons I could not fully untangle, it did actually improve my health. Humans are tricky. So I'm not saying your symptoms don't matter, just that so far there's no reason to blame wireless technology users.

 
Not to take the tread off topic, but electromagnetic hypersensitivity does have a growing body of evidence and studies showing people are being given headaches and other symptoms. Just as there is not yet enough irrefutable evidence to say it is real, there is also not any evidence to disprove it.
 
The example of that woman and her crystal can be explained in many different ways, and the one I would disagree with was the crystal having any effect, but perhaps I'm wrong.
 
What I can tell you is that while at work and otherwise distracted (getting on with work) some days I start to get a specific type of headache. I usually don't make any connection to start with, but then if I ask my colleagues if any of them has their wireless on, without fail one of them will say "sorry I forgot to turn it off". Once turned off it is like a vice released my head. They consider me to be the human WiFi detector.
 
Placebos require conciousness to work, using the mind's powerful ability to decide what is experienced by the subject. My experience only becomes concious once I have a symptom.
 
Consider that our brains work using electrical impulses and no one can say it is impossible for any individual to experience 'interference' from electromagnetic radiation.
 
Actually now I've written this I do consider it to be on topic when considering yet more wireless devices.
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 4:04 AM Post #13 of 54
^ That is nonsense talk, hesitant to embrace the future and the mind is being forced to make up excuses, like saying there is a god because you can't disprove the existence of god same with the flying spaghetti monster
 
Sep 28, 2016 at 8:11 AM Post #14 of 54
  ^ I remember I had the Denon D5000 headphones many years ago, I sold it in 1 week time and kept my Sennheiser HD 555 instead. Why you may ask? the difference was like 5% and to actually notice that 5% you had to sit in a dark room with perfect silence and concentrate and focus on what is playing then immediately swap back to the 555 and the after many tries come to the conclusion that the D5000 was a little better.

5% better?! 
blink.gif
...lol.
 
 
  ^ That is nonsense talk, hesitant to embrace the future and the mind is being forced to make up excuses, like saying there is a god because you can't disprove the existence of god same with the flying spaghetti monster

 
It is not as nonsensical as you think! I wouldn't be surprised if some people are affected in the way Subwoofer claims to be. Given that the brain generates electrical signals between cell's, a headache could be a likely pathological condition of being near objects of increased electromagnetic activity (Obviously other things can cause headaches too). The continuing increase in wireless devices is not a good thing, it does have health risks....Big time!
 

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