Lol, people quickly turn Why into Worth. Though, I am not sure what the OP is seeking for. I can say a certain things why the AK380 Copper is 4K device.

1/ Research and Development. This is a research and development that were done for Audio performances, UI, Android licenses, FA, CE...etc....etc. the continuing support to keep on developing Firmware Os from Androids, the customer supports.

2/ More R&D as tuning and more fine tuning. Audio devices and engineering or designing it circuitry is more like an art. A blob of color here, a brush there, a mix of both, add some more in this bit and that bit. We get a painting. Without the artist hands, the brush, canvas, paints are just Tools. The same is for audio devices, without an artist hand, it is just Caapcitors, Resistors, different electrical components. How do they know what is to put where ? The whole process and fine tuning with real human auditions, blind tests....etc.,,is the arts. You don't think it is an easy job, do you ? R&D a DAP is much harder than a smartphone itself. Smartphones get so cheap because they sell to the Mass consumers market. Digital players is only selling to the Niche Market. In the end, the engineers, the genuine pig people, the marketing, the capital...etc....they all require money to run on.

3/ electrical components materials and quality. More than often, these companies "special order" their own electrical components in the values that they need Technically, and the materials that they want to get the best out of their products for the final outcome. These are not cheap either, especially in smaller number of orders. Hell, even cables and wires materials are expensive enough. Take a look at True Ultra pure silver cables itself. They are easily $40 a feet, and for Christ sake, making a cables for audio is not the same as making a silver wires for jewel craft either.

4/ who here can analyze the electrical components inside the AK380 to say such things ? The result is that it had been proven to be a great sounding players. If you say they used cheap components, then I say the "art" of bringing out the best of the cheapest is worthy of the price tag. If you say they used top tier quality components, then I said the special and exquisite materials in the components is worth it. If you say it is the combination of both, the materials, and the art.....then I say it can worth even more than that.

Now, why does the AK380 Copper cost 4K ? Because, my friends, without AK380 Copper, there would never be a strong demanding the market the high quality portable players as it is now. We would not have Sony Gold Walkman, we would not have other companies that are trying to chase after these number and using AK380 as a references price/performance ratio.

In the end, my friends, a producers has the rights to put a price tag on their products. You as the consumers can only support it by buying it, or disregard it. There is no such questions as of why does it cost this much. The most effective answer I can give you here is

Without AK to make it happen, it would never happen, period.

What would never happen without AK?

whitigir said:

Now, why does the AK380 Copper cost 4K ? Because, my friends, without AK380 Copper, there would never be a strong demanding the market the high quality portable players as it is now. We would not have Sony Gold Walkman, we would not have other companies that are trying to chase after these number and using AK380 as a references price/performance ratio.

.... There is no such questions as of why does it cost this much. The most effective answer I can give you here is

Without AK to make it happen, it would never happen, period.

Click to expand...

 
LOL.
 
Just LOL.
 
How insulting to the DAP makers who produce high performance devices without greedily screwing their customers.
 
Shame on iRiver/AK and shame on those who follow their greed. They have not advanced the industry any further than it would have advanced, in any case, in the absence of their greed. All iRiver has done is integrate global smartphone technologies with quite ordinary audio circuitry. Yes, that takes skill, but it owes far more to other innovators than is owed by others to iRiver for their degree of innovation. It is outrageous to imply that innovation (or demand for innovation), or demand for high quality devices, in the high-performance DAP sector, would never happen without greedy iRiver/AK.
 
 
.

mython said:

LOL.

Just LOL.

How insulting to the DAP makers who produce high performance devices without greedily screwing their customers.

Shame on iRiver/AK and shame on those who follow their greed. They have not advanced the industry any further than it would have advanced, in any case, in the absence of their greed. All iRiver has done is integrate global smartphone technologies with quite ordinary audio circuitry. Yes, that takes skill, but it owes far more to other innovators than is owed by others to iRiver for their degree of innovation. It is outrageous to imply that innovation (or demand for innovation), or demand for high quality devices, in the high-performance DAP sector, would never happen without greedy iRiver/AK.


.

Click to expand...

And who would that be the manufacturer that produce high quality on the level of ak380 and cost sub 1k ? They are like The references points for the market and still are. Talks just to talks is easy, until you go out and about to do it. Like I said, not only the product itself, but the whole system and the company need finances to run on, period.

whitigir said:

 

mython said:

LOL.

Just LOL.

How insulting to the DAP makers who produce high performance devices without greedily screwing their customers.

Shame on iRiver/AK and shame on those who follow their greed. They have not advanced the industry any further than it would have advanced, in any case, in the absence of their greed. All iRiver has done is integrate global smartphone technologies with quite ordinary audio circuitry. Yes, that takes skill, but it owes far more to other innovators than is owed by others to iRiver for their degree of innovation. It is outrageous to imply that innovation (or demand for innovation), or demand for high quality devices, in the high-performance DAP sector, would never happen without greedy iRiver/AK.


.

Click to expand...

And who would that be the manufacturer that produce high quality on the level of ak380 and cost sub 1k ?

Click to expand...

 
 
You clearly have a love-affair with overpriced gear and greedy vendors. That's your prerogative, and I support your right to hold that perspective, but my point is that it is unnecessary to pretend that the industry would be not attain high quality without the presence of iRiver/A&K.
 
What is so laughable is that you fail to see that iRiver owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to the global smartphone industry (in which their native Korea is, by no coincidence a major player). Heck, they're even owned by a major telcoms corporation, are they not?
 
When you speak of 'high quality', you are ambiguous as to what aspect of quality you are referring to.
 
Materials?
 
Fidelity?
 
Firmware?
 
Customer service?

mython said:

You clearly have a love-affair with overpriced gear and greedy vendors. That's your prerogative, and I support your right to hold that perspective, but my point is that it is unnecessary to pretend that the industry would be not attain high quality without the presence of iRiver/A&K.

What is so laughable is that you fail to see that iRiver owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to the global smartphone industry (in which their native Korea is, by no coincidencea major player). Heck, they're even owned by a major telcoms corporation, are they not?

When you speak of 'high quality', you are ambiguous as to what aspect of quality you are referring to.

Materials?

Fidelity?

Firmware?

Customer service?

Click to expand...

I told you all the above questions in the first post I posted here. I don't deny the fact that AK owes a huge gratitude toward smartphones industry. Facts is just facts, and it is probably overpriced for you, but not others. Otherwise, how would they sell so well ? LoL. Again, you can just talk all you want, but the fact is that there is no one who can produce AK380 quality at the price you want, period. Because it makes no senses

whitigir said:

 

mython said:

You clearly have a love-affair with overpriced gear and greedy vendors. That's your prerogative, and I support your right to hold that perspective, but my point is that it is unnecessary to pretend that the industry would be not attain high quality without the presence of iRiver/A&K.

What is so laughable is that you fail to see that iRiver owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to the global smartphone industry (in which their native Korea is, by no coincidencea major player). Heck, they're even owned by a major telcoms corporation, are they not?

When you speak of 'high quality', you are ambiguous as to what aspect of quality you are referring to.

Materials?

Fidelity?

Firmware?

Customer service?

Click to expand...

I told you all the above questions in the first post I posted here. I don't deny the fact that AK owes a huge gratitude toward smartphones industry. Facts is just facts, and it is probably overpriced for you, but not others. Otherwise, how would they sell so well ? LoL. Again, you can just talk all you want, but the fact is that there is no one who can produce AK380 quality at the price you want, period. Because it makes no senses

Click to expand...

 
 
A&K do not sell well purely because of their performance or quality (which really isn't as super-special as you seem to believe).
 
It's actually rather hilarious that your oh-so-wonderful AK380 can be improved in an extremely simple manner that should've been done by iRiver, at the time of manufacture, yet they still seem unwilling or incapable, even after Vinnie has show them how, in previous models:
 
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwak380

mython said:

A&K do not sell well purely because of their performance or quality (which really isn't as super-special as you seem to believe).

It's actually rather hilarious that your oh-so-wonderful AK380 can be improved in an extremely simple manner that should've been done by iRiver, at the time of manufacture, yet they still seem unwilling or incapable, even after Vinnie has show them how, in previous models:

http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwak380

Click to expand...

Now, for this point, I totally agree with you. The main reason why I don't want to touch AK380 Yet....for the price people paid, and that lousy ribbon cables ....it is a spit in the face...LOL. But I appreciate Iriver a lot for leading the market the way that it is doing. Hell, because of this, we have so many competitors in this niche market. Soon, we will reach the end point where the company either make it or break it.

It will be interesting to see which one lasts until then and some more. ATM, I express my gratitude toward Iriver for pulling off such a terrific movements that exposes the niche market and the wills from people. For an enthusiast like me...I can not express enough gratitude.

I remember back then when I had my tape Walkman, lol, what a pain FF and RW....then CD Walkman.....another pain to change and swap discs....now we are into Internal memory that gets 256 GB and MicroSD....even more quality into the performances. We are simply approaching the level of much more sophisticated home systems, but pocket sizes. Yet, again, Sony got beat by Apple and they were too scared to step back into the game...LOL...now they are. Thank you Iriver !

whitigir said:

   

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

mython said:

A&K do not sell well purely because of their performance or quality (which really isn't as super-special as you seem to believe).

It's actually rather hilarious that your oh-so-wonderful AK380 can be improved in an extremely simple manner that should've been done by iRiver, at the time of manufacture, yet they still seem unwilling or incapable, even after Vinnie has show them how, in previous models:

http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwak380

Click to expand...

Now, for this point, I totally agree with you. The main reason why I don't want to touch AK380 Yet....for the price people paid, and that lousy ribbon cables ....it is a spit in the face...LOL. But I appreciate Iriver a lot for leading the market the way that it is doing. Hell, because of this, we have so many competitors in this niche market. Soon, we will reach the end point where the company either make it or break it.

It will be interesting to see which one lasts until then and some more. ATM, I express my gratitude toward Iriver for pulling off such a terrific movements that exposes the niche market and the wills from people. For an enthusiast like me...I can not express enough gratitude.

I remember back then when I had my tape Walkman, lol, what a pain FF and RW....then CD Walkman.....another pain to change and swap discs....now we are into Internal memory that gets 256 GB and MicroSD....even more quality into the performances. We are simply approaching the level of much more sophisticated home systems, but pocket sizes. Yet, again, Sony got beat by Apple and they were too scared to step back into the game...LOL...now they are. Thank you Iriver !

Click to expand...

 
 
Yes, they have made some contribution, but I dislike their greed and self-serving attitude. I view iRiver/AK as being good at slickly integrating smartphones with basic audio circuits, and wrapping them in nicely-produced (albeit ugly) milled metal cases. No more, no less.
 
Steve Jobs (no angel, himself) recognised that there was a market for DAPs of higher performance than the iPods. If he was still alive (and I am no particular fan of the man), I believe Apple would have produced a sub-$1000 DAP that would've wiped out A&K's slick profiteering. But it didn't happen that way, and Apple's bean-counters have shown themselves to be more interested in clawing-in the dollars without spending them on significant levels of innovation, since Jobs' passing.
 
As you know, everything in this dualistic universe behaves in a cyclical fashion. The Chinese DAP makers are getting closer, closer, closer, with each passing year, to matching A&K slickness. They're not quite there yet, but they're not far away, and bear in mind that they are doing it on smaller margins, which is more difficult. Although there will always be a hard core of customers who buy overpriced products because of status and other psychological reasons, I predict that the time is not far away,now, when iRiver/AK will lose a substantial number of customers, as fewer people will be willing to pay $3000 more than what the Chinese $1000 DAPs are offering. I anticipate that happening within the next 2 years. iBasso's DX200 may well be a stepping-stone towards that eventuality, if they can get the firmware slick enough to make people take it seriously.
 
BTW, I still have a couple of Sony D-777 PCDPs, from the mid-90s, which I occasionally use  

Major reason why audio equipment are priced the way they are is because audio is very very subjective. It is internal to the subject, someone can't really share their exact experiences with others. Also, limited resources prevent most people from trying out every single piece of equipment available. Do you think people would buy AK380 for $4k if they had tried every other DAP? The differences between each would be so small that people won't be willing to pay thousands more for 1-2% increase in quality.

I agree totally with all of your point . Toast to you kept those vintages, they are great memory

mython said:

   
 
A&K do not sell well purely because of their performance or quality (which really isn't as super-special as you seem to believe).
 
It's actually rather hilarious that your oh-so-wonderful AK380 can be improved in an extremely simple manner that should've been done by iRiver, at the time of manufacture, yet they still seem unwilling or incapable, even after Vinnie has show them how, in previous models:
 
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwak380

Click to expand...

It's at least equally hilarious that the page you quote contains the following :
 
"The AK380 is arguably the finest sounding DAP on the market today, and for good reason.  Sonically, it can do things that simply were not thought to be even possible in a DAP just a year or two ago, and it makes for the ultimate foundation to enhance upon with an RWAK modification!"
 
Seems like you have an equally large axe to grind here.  

Oh boys look what you've all done, created a right mess in here.

Please clean up after you leave...

h20fidelity said:

Oh boys look what you've all done, created a right mess in here.

Please clean up after you leave...

Click to expand...

 
 
I think we all kept it civil and within reasonable bounds. No harm done.

mython said:

I think we all kept it civil and within reasonable bounds. No harm done.

Click to expand...

Of course you did!

Please ignore me it's very late/early, I'm on my phone with a case of insomnia. (seriously)