AUDIO over IP - REDNET 3 & 16 Review. AES67 Sets A New Standard for Computer Audio
Dec 6, 2016 at 1:22 PM Post #2,611 of 3,694
  His first post mentioned he has a wireless bridge.
 
Even shows in network config within Dante Controller.
 

 
 


​Yes, sorry for not being more clear in my original post.  I understand Rednet doesn't have a built in wireless radio and know I need to plug an Ethernet cable into it.  But I had the impression that Dante didn't work with wireless ANYWHERE in the chain due to the Precision Time Protocal (PTP) not being supported through an 802.11ac bridge.  If that is incorrect it would be great news and I'll do some additional research.  I had searched for dante and wireless and ptp/wireless, aes67/wireless, etc... but didn't try dante/wifi combination.  Thanks for the tips.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 1:32 PM Post #2,612 of 3,694
Me too, thanks for the additional info!
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 2:48 PM Post #2,613 of 3,694
 
​Yes, sorry for not being more clear in my original post.  I understand Rednet doesn't have a built in wireless radio and know I need to plug an Ethernet cable into it.  But I had the impression that Dante didn't work with wireless ANYWHERE in the chain due to the Precision Time Protocal (PTP) not being supported through an 802.11ac bridge.  If that is incorrect it would be great news and I'll do some additional research.  I had searched for dante and wireless and ptp/wireless, aes67/wireless, etc... but didn't try dante/wifi combination.  Thanks for the tips.


Assuming you would only have 1 Rednet device, it would be the Master anyway (regarding PTP).
 
As Jabbr mentioned earlier, I don't think you can do audio transmission from your PC to Rednet device.
 
However, I still don't think it would be an issue if your bridge has an Ethernet port. If it has more than one, you should be able to use cables to both PC and Rednet. If it only has one port, you could probably get the D16 and use the secondary port to your computer to do the data transmission (I initially connected this way w/o any problems).
 
Also, as mentioned earlier, if you don't need access to the internet from your PC while listening to music, you could use a simple switch/router (could be in addition to the one you have - not sure what your requirements are since you never really stated).
 
Bottom line is, I think you have some options that should work.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 3:48 PM Post #2,614 of 3,694
 
Assuming you would only have 1 Rednet device, it would be the Master anyway (regarding PTP).
 
As Jabbr mentioned earlier, I don't think you can do audio transmission from your PC to Rednet device.
 
However, I still don't think it would be an issue if your bridge has an Ethernet port. If it has more than one, you should be able to use cables to both PC and Rednet. If it only has one port, you could probably get the D16 and use the secondary port to your computer to do the data transmission (I initially connected this way w/o any problems).
 
Also, as mentioned earlier, if you don't need access to the internet from your PC while listening to music, you could use a simple switch/router (could be in addition to the one you have - not sure what your requirements are since you never really stated).
 
Bottom line is, I think you have some options that should work.

 
Here is my 2 cents...
 
I think that the "gotcha" is data stream timing. There will still be a wireless leg in the music stream since his server is in another part of the house. He still would need a PC in the same room. That PC could use something like JRiver Media Center to get the music over the wireless link and then communicate with the RN3 via Dante Virtual Soundcard.
 
He needs either a long wire to the existing server or another PC to serve music via ethernet locally.  
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 4:12 PM Post #2,615 of 3,694
   
Here is my 2 cents...
 
I think that the "gotcha" is data stream timing. There will still be a wireless leg in the music stream since his server is in another part of the house. He still would need a PC in the same room. That PC could use something like JRiver Media Center to get the music over the wireless link and then communicate with the RN3 via Dante Virtual Soundcard.
 
He needs either a long wire to the existing server or another PC to serve music via ethernet locally.  


​That is what I conclude as well.  If I want to use a Rednet device I either figure out how to run a long cable or buy another PC.  As Jabbr said you can control from a wireless device like a laptop, but you can't have a wireless leg anywhere in the path to stream from DVS to Rednet.  Wireless doesn't seem to support the timing protocol for the data stream, and it is the timing that seems to make AOIP semi-immune to the sort of reclocker/isolation/decrapifier tweaking I hope to avoid in the first place (with something like a microRendu or Aries in the chain).  With my computer area in a loft that sits above the garage, to avoid having to tear up an awful lot of wall, I'll probably just drill a hole through the floor and run a cable across the garage ceiling to the far room.  Shouldn't be too bad and don't care what it looks like in the garage.  Thanks for the feedback!
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 4:28 PM Post #2,616 of 3,694
 
​That is what I conclude as well.  If I want to use a Rednet device I either figure out how to run a long cable or buy another PC.  As Jabbr said you can control from a wireless device like a laptop, but you can't have a wireless leg anywhere in the path to stream from DVS to Rednet.  Wireless doesn't seem to support the timing protocol for the data stream, and it is the timing that seems to make AOIP semi-immune to the sort of reclocker/isolation/decrapifier tweaking I hope to avoid in the first place (with something like a microRendu or Aries in the chain).  With my computer area in a loft that sits above the garage, to avoid having to tear up an awful lot of wall, I'll probably just drill a hole through the floor and run a cable across the garage ceiling to the far room.  Shouldn't be too bad and don't care what it looks like in the garage.  Thanks for the feedback!

This is why I said you never fully explained what your requirements were.
 
If you're going to drill a hole in the floor, you also might want to consider only running an AES cable (Mogami) to your DAC and keeping the Rednet in the loft (assuming your DAC has AES, and you control your source remotely). Just a suggestion (not knowing your setup).
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 2:40 AM Post #2,618 of 3,694
  Please forgive if this is a stupid question: is internet connection still required for an aoip setup if the pc is connected directly to rednet via lan port? Thanks...

Internet connection is not required for RedNet playback. The RedNet is 'just' an interface between your PC and DAC and doesn't use or require an internet connection for normal playback usage.
 
The only time a an internet connection is required is when doing an update of RedNet software and firmware from the PC.
The Control Software on the PC will download these from the internet, but this download can also be done manualy from another machine and then you can update the RedNet manualy from the connected PC.
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 12:34 PM Post #2,620 of 3,694
  You could use gigabit ethernet over powerline? It will introduce noise into your mains however, so perhaps not great unless you have a power regenerator

 
As someone who uses Powerline Ethernet Adapters, the current limit with the newest adapters (due to technological limitations and the nature of how powerlines are used / constructed) is around ~440 mb/s. This is the highest connection speed that can be transferred via. powerline. Also a lot of other factors play into the relative "noise" of using ethernet over powerline. The biggest factor being the quality of powerline cabling used and the construction date of your home. The second biggest factor being how many devices you have sucking power on that particular line.
 
My apartment was built in 2015 and I have relatively few devices attached to the powerline that my Ethernet adapters are on, so I am able to get my full connection speed of 40 mb/s over the line and there is relatively little noise. I haven't tried an AOIP device yet, but my desktop PC has two RJ45 jacks so one accepts my Ethernet connection and the other will be used to go straight to a AOIP device.
 
Personally I think that the amount of noise that could be passed over an CAT5 / CAT7 cable will be relatively low priority in terms of other factors that could be introducing noise into your chain, especially when it comes to things like power supply, etc.
 
P.S. - If anyone is interested, the best Powerline Ethernet Adapters on the market right now are the Extollo LANSocket 1500. (Amazon Link)
 
- InsanityOne
k701smile.gif
 
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 5:51 PM Post #2,621 of 3,694
Do the newer powerline adapters such as the LANsocket 1500 still have issues if the two power outlets are on circuits that fall on opposite sides of the breaker box?  It would certainly be a convenient solution, but I wonder if the technology adds any latency that would disrupt the timing protocols used by Dante (similar to Wifi).  Either way it would be a fairly easy and relatively inexpensive thing to try once I have a Rednet.
 
Dec 7, 2016 at 11:00 PM Post #2,622 of 3,694
  Do the newer powerline adapters such as the LANsocket 1500 still have issues if the two power outlets are on circuits that fall on opposite sides of the breaker box?  It would certainly be a convenient solution, but I wonder if the technology adds any latency that would disrupt the timing protocols used by Dante (similar to Wifi).  Either way it would be a fairly easy and relatively inexpensive thing to try once I have a Rednet.

 
#1 Here is a direct quote from an Extollo rep. on their product page:
 
 
Yes, the powerline signal will cross from electrical phase 1 to phase 2. HomePlug AV2 uses much higher signaling frequencies, 2-86 MHz. At these frequencies, the Bus Bars in the electrical service panel start to look like a capacitor. The Bus Bars are two large copper bars that run down the center of the electrical service panel to which the circuit breakers physically attach. The electrical panel acts as a cross-phase coupler,the result is that powerline signals couple, or "radiate" across the electrical service panel's circuit breaker Bus Bars. Extollo has a white paper on this subject - see: extollocom.com/support and look for "Home Electrical Wiring & Cross Phase coupling".

 
#2 On my own personal system I have not noticed a "significant" uptick in latency while using my powerline ethernet adapters. I still get better latency than when I'm on my 2.4 Ghz or my 5.0 Ghz WiFi connection. For me, on my particular setup, I would say that the latency is within ~1-3 ms of a normal "direct" ethernet connection to the wall / modem / etc. YMMV though.
 
- InsanityOne 
dt880smile.png

 
Dec 8, 2016 at 3:46 PM Post #2,623 of 3,694
  Do the newer powerline adapters such as the LANsocket 1500 still have issues if the two power outlets are on circuits that fall on opposite sides of the breaker box?  It would certainly be a convenient solution, but I wonder if the technology adds any latency that would disrupt the timing protocols used by Dante (similar to Wifi).  Either way it would be a fairly easy and relatively inexpensive thing to try once I have a Rednet.

If that's an issue, you could try moving breakers around so they're on the same phase.
 
   
#1 Here is a direct quote from an Extollo rep. on their product page:
 
 
#2 On my own personal system I have not noticed a "significant" uptick in latency while using my powerline ethernet adapters. I still get better latency than when I'm on my 2.4 Ghz or my 5.0 Ghz WiFi connection. For me, on my particular setup, I would say that the latency is within ~1-3 ms of a normal "direct" ethernet connection to the wall / modem / etc. YMMV though.
 
- InsanityOne 
dt880smile.png


Most of the latency is due to the computer, not the network.
 
Dec 8, 2016 at 4:21 PM Post #2,624 of 3,694
 
Most of the latency is due to the computer, not the network.

 
Yes, I agree. Hardware is a huge factor in determining your connection latency, I was just stating that the latency while using the Powerline Ethernet Adapters is still better than using the exact same connection over WiFi, no matter what type of WiFi connection you are using.
 
- InsanityOne
k701smile.gif
 
 
Dec 11, 2016 at 8:40 PM Post #2,625 of 3,694
Some pertinent info from another thread:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/1410#post_13075230
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top